I used SWFA and USO retail prices, did this to have a black and white comparison of scopes, please help me make it better, maybe it can become a sticky that is updated as new scopes arrive, like the Razor just did....
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Rifle Scopes scope comp spread sheet-----suggestions needed----
- Thread starter 30cal user
- Start date
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
nf nxs 3.5-15 is available mil/mil
also nightforce nsx are available with zero stop just more $$$$
Great job though
nf nxs 3.5-15 is available mil/mil
also nightforce nsx are available with zero stop just more $$$$
Great job though
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
30caluser,
No sure what you are trying to accomplish? First some comments:
USO prices are too high there are so many options that fully loaded means exactly what? For example a USO 3.2-17 TPal cost $2120. adding ILL. cost $185. That totals $2305. not $2850. With USO you need to add only the options you need, not all available. That way you have a apple to apple comparison.
S&B prices are way too low, most ILL S&B's start north of $2900., using SWFA prices as a good guide. For example the cheapest SWFA sold ILL S&B 4-16x50 is $3198. Where can you buy an S&B ILL 4-16x50MM for $2501.?
You said you are concentrating on the "high end". High end as to price or scope power? If price, drop Nikon or add Bushnell, Sightron, other Leupolds et al: if power, include all scopes 12x or higher, as the S&B 3-12 should have more competion.
How about Parallax adjustment y/n? What's ZS? Tube size maybe?
Bob
30caluser,
No sure what you are trying to accomplish? First some comments:
USO prices are too high there are so many options that fully loaded means exactly what? For example a USO 3.2-17 TPal cost $2120. adding ILL. cost $185. That totals $2305. not $2850. With USO you need to add only the options you need, not all available. That way you have a apple to apple comparison.
S&B prices are way too low, most ILL S&B's start north of $2900., using SWFA prices as a good guide. For example the cheapest SWFA sold ILL S&B 4-16x50 is $3198. Where can you buy an S&B ILL 4-16x50MM for $2501.?
You said you are concentrating on the "high end". High end as to price or scope power? If price, drop Nikon or add Bushnell, Sightron, other Leupolds et al: if power, include all scopes 12x or higher, as the S&B 3-12 should have more competion.
How about Parallax adjustment y/n? What's ZS? Tube size maybe?
Bob
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
with the razor out alot of people have been complainign about the price and saying there is a need for a $1500 - $1700 scope, so i thought it would be good to do a black and white comp on paper so we can all see where all the scope line up...ZS = Zero stop
i will adjust the ss
with the razor out alot of people have been complainign about the price and saying there is a need for a $1500 - $1700 scope, so i thought it would be good to do a black and white comp on paper so we can all see where all the scope line up...ZS = Zero stop
i will adjust the ss
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I adjusted and added, let me know what needs to be modified or added, I'll make it as big as you would like
I adjusted and added, let me know what needs to be modified or added, I'll make it as big as you would like
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I'm not really sure this sort of data lends itself to a simple chart, but just FYI...
USO's can be had in 30, 34, or 35 mm versions. Most are 30mm, 34mm is the most expensive of the options. Also M1 and M3 USO knobs don't have a zero stop, the EREK knob can be configured into a sort of zero-stop but it's not really the same as what's on the other manufacturers.
The IOR 3-18 is a 35mm tube, not a 34mm.
I'm not really sure this sort of data lends itself to a simple chart, but just FYI...
USO's can be had in 30, 34, or 35 mm versions. Most are 30mm, 34mm is the most expensive of the options. Also M1 and M3 USO knobs don't have a zero stop, the EREK knob can be configured into a sort of zero-stop but it's not really the same as what's on the other manufacturers.
The IOR 3-18 is a 35mm tube, not a 34mm.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
adjusted, the USO is priced with the same features as others in that price range
adjusted, the USO is priced with the same features as others in that price range
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
S&B PMIIS in 3-12X50 can be single turn or double turn...also holds true with the 4-16X42s and 4-16X50s...double turns being more $$.
S&B PMIIS in 3-12X50 can be single turn or double turn...also holds true with the 4-16X42s and 4-16X50s...double turns being more $$.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
retail prices....I went to their website and added what I wanted and this was the price....
SN3-1700
Base price $1920
No options selected.
ERGO - Standard Option
44mm Low Profile - Standard Option
EREK 1/10 MIL - 175.00
U.S. #1 1/10 MIL - Standard Option
34mm - 120.00
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
Mil-Scale GAP - 86.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Red) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option
Total: $2486 *
I was wrong on this one..I will change
SN3-2500
Base price $2535
No options selected.
T-Pal Left - Standard Option
58mm T-PAL - Standard Option
EREK 1/10 MIL - 175.00
U.S. #1 1/10 MIL - Standard Option
34mm - 120.00
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
Mil-Scale GAP - 86.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Red) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option
Total: $3101 *
retail prices....I went to their website and added what I wanted and this was the price....
SN3-1700
Base price $1920
No options selected.
ERGO - Standard Option
44mm Low Profile - Standard Option
EREK 1/10 MIL - 175.00
U.S. #1 1/10 MIL - Standard Option
34mm - 120.00
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
Mil-Scale GAP - 86.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Red) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option
Total: $2486 *
I was wrong on this one..I will change
SN3-2500
Base price $2535
No options selected.
T-Pal Left - Standard Option
58mm T-PAL - Standard Option
EREK 1/10 MIL - 175.00
U.S. #1 1/10 MIL - Standard Option
34mm - 120.00
Matte Black Type III Hard Anodizing - Standard Option
Mil-Scale GAP - 86.00
11 Pos Rheostat (Red) - 185.00
Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
Rapid Focus - Standard Option
Total: $3101 *
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
please enlighten me, this is suppoed to be informational for everyone, I need everyone's help to get it right
please enlighten me, this is suppoed to be informational for everyone, I need everyone's help to get it right
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
My apologies; if you use SWFA's Retail pricing everything is in line!
My apologies; if you use SWFA's Retail pricing everything is in line!
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
added USO w/o ill and 34 mm tube and added Premier prices per SWFA web site
added USO w/o ill and 34 mm tube and added Premier prices per SWFA web site
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
S&B prices are way too low, most ILL S&B's start north of $2900., using SWFA prices as a good guide. For example the cheapest SWFA sold ILL S&B 4-16x50 is $3198. Where can you buy an S&B ILL 4-16x50MM for $2501.?
Bob </div></div>
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...065#Post1332065
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...960#Post1298960
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
S&B prices are way too low, most ILL S&B's start north of $2900., using SWFA prices as a good guide. For example the cheapest SWFA sold ILL S&B 4-16x50 is $3198. Where can you buy an S&B ILL 4-16x50MM for $2501.?
Bob </div></div>
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...065#Post1332065
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...960#Post1298960
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I think there are a few more "features" to check for a tactical scope:
- how long has the manufacturer been in business? (all scopes will need service sometime, and it is good to know your scope have less probabilities of turning into a paperweight if some new firm goes bust like many do).
- how large is the manufacturer, and how many military contracts with first world armed services do they have?
- has the scope been used in the real world, for many years, with elite military forces, with satisfaction?
- has the scope been subjected to competitive military tests, and won a contract?
I think there are a few more "features" to check for a tactical scope:
- how long has the manufacturer been in business? (all scopes will need service sometime, and it is good to know your scope have less probabilities of turning into a paperweight if some new firm goes bust like many do).
- how large is the manufacturer, and how many military contracts with first world armed services do they have?
- has the scope been used in the real world, for many years, with elite military forces, with satisfaction?
- has the scope been subjected to competitive military tests, and won a contract?
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there are a few more "features" to check for a tactical scope:
- how long has the manufacturer been in business? (all scopes will need service sometime, and it is good to know your scope have less probabilities of turning into a paperweight if some new firm goes bust like many do).
- how large is the manufacturer, and how many military contracts with first world armed services do they have?
- has the scope been used in the real world, for many years, with elite military forces, with satisfaction?
- has the scope been subjected to competitive military tests, and won a contract? </div></div>
Your thinking is a little flawed here. I agree with the length of time company has been in business and their overall Customer Service/Warranty. But the military points are moot. The Military doesnt always use the top of the line products. They get the best bang for their buck. What does it matter if the scope has been subjected to military tests and won a contract? Those things dont matter to a recreational shooter in terms of performance. No shooter is ever going to leave their scope to get sprayed by salt water for 72 hours or take it on a nice 50 m scuba dive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there are a few more "features" to check for a tactical scope:
- how long has the manufacturer been in business? (all scopes will need service sometime, and it is good to know your scope have less probabilities of turning into a paperweight if some new firm goes bust like many do).
- how large is the manufacturer, and how many military contracts with first world armed services do they have?
- has the scope been used in the real world, for many years, with elite military forces, with satisfaction?
- has the scope been subjected to competitive military tests, and won a contract? </div></div>
Your thinking is a little flawed here. I agree with the length of time company has been in business and their overall Customer Service/Warranty. But the military points are moot. The Military doesnt always use the top of the line products. They get the best bang for their buck. What does it matter if the scope has been subjected to military tests and won a contract? Those things dont matter to a recreational shooter in terms of performance. No shooter is ever going to leave their scope to get sprayed by salt water for 72 hours or take it on a nice 50 m scuba dive.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
If you don't care about cummulative recoil loosening your scope, many thousands of turret cranking creating problems with the clicks, bumping your scope accidentally, getting it dusted, wet or submerged, etc. (things that happen in military tests or real use) then your reasoning is OK. But then why call it a "tactical" scope? Perhaps a new "recreational" scope category based on convenient features, but not hard use endurance, is needed.
I agree that some scopes (read: leupold) are not the best anymore yet are used by the US military and many other countries.
But for example S&B and Hensold are hardly just the "best bang for the buck" and have the track record and contracts I mentioned. At a lower price point (and features) Nightforce NSX scopes also have the extensive military use. Who else does of the scopes mentioned?
In my opinion, putting a total newcomer like Razor in the company of the above mentioned scopes is not very objective.
If you don't care about cummulative recoil loosening your scope, many thousands of turret cranking creating problems with the clicks, bumping your scope accidentally, getting it dusted, wet or submerged, etc. (things that happen in military tests or real use) then your reasoning is OK. But then why call it a "tactical" scope? Perhaps a new "recreational" scope category based on convenient features, but not hard use endurance, is needed.
I agree that some scopes (read: leupold) are not the best anymore yet are used by the US military and many other countries.
But for example S&B and Hensold are hardly just the "best bang for the buck" and have the track record and contracts I mentioned. At a lower price point (and features) Nightforce NSX scopes also have the extensive military use. Who else does of the scopes mentioned?
In my opinion, putting a total newcomer like Razor in the company of the above mentioned scopes is not very objective.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
Have you handled the new razor? I havent so there for im not gonna judge it. But there are plenty of scopes out there that dont have mil contracts that never went through mil tests and are great scopes so im not to sure where my thinking is flawed. But to each his own
Have you handled the new razor? I havent so there for im not gonna judge it. But there are plenty of scopes out there that dont have mil contracts that never went through mil tests and are great scopes so im not to sure where my thinking is flawed. But to each his own
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
all the above factors are somewhat subjective and hard to put on a spreadsheet....I could add a warranty column and years in production column...thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!!
Could someone please give me these stats (years in production and warranty for each scope)?
all the above factors are somewhat subjective and hard to put on a spreadsheet....I could add a warranty column and years in production column...thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!!
Could someone please give me these stats (years in production and warranty for each scope)?
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
Honestly, I think you're chasing your tail a bit on this one man. A lot of what makes someone choose one scope over another is subjective and frequently it boils down to nuanced differences between two scopes. I don't know of a single scope in the >$1500 market that's a piece of crap and having owned a healthy sampling of your list I just don't see how you can hope to effectively summarize the differences in a chart like this.
If you're having fun, then great. I love to read about and research different gear too. But you might want to sit back and think about if this "project" of yours specifically has any real future.
Honestly, I think you're chasing your tail a bit on this one man. A lot of what makes someone choose one scope over another is subjective and frequently it boils down to nuanced differences between two scopes. I don't know of a single scope in the >$1500 market that's a piece of crap and having owned a healthy sampling of your list I just don't see how you can hope to effectively summarize the differences in a chart like this.
If you're having fun, then great. I love to read about and research different gear too. But you might want to sit back and think about if this "project" of yours specifically has any real future.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I can see this being usefull for new shooters (or those new to high end optics).
While I agree that scope choice is a personal thing and that small feature sets many be the determining factor, if one has no base of knowledge, this could prove to be useful.
I have owned and used enough scopes to know what I like and what I don't, but that is not the case with everyone.
I think a warranty column would be very informative. Perhaps a rating (1-10) of customer service also (even though I know this is subjective).
I can see this being usefull for new shooters (or those new to high end optics).
While I agree that scope choice is a personal thing and that small feature sets many be the determining factor, if one has no base of knowledge, this could prove to be useful.
I have owned and used enough scopes to know what I like and what I don't, but that is not the case with everyone.
I think a warranty column would be very informative. Perhaps a rating (1-10) of customer service also (even though I know this is subjective).
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research...
I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research...
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research... </div></div>
Sure, I hear you. Just consider, do you decide if you want a BMW or a Porche based on a check-box for "Air Conditioner?" Not trying to beat you down on this, really. Just providing food for thought.
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research... </div></div>
Sure, I hear you. Just consider, do you decide if you want a BMW or a Porche based on a check-box for "Air Conditioner?" Not trying to beat you down on this, really. Just providing food for thought.
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
[/quote]
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
[/quote]
this would be good, with a picture of each one too...
[/quote]
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
[/quote]
this would be good, with a picture of each one too...
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research... </div></div>
Sure, I hear you. Just consider, do you decide if you want a BMW or a Porche based on a check-box for "Air Conditioner?" Not trying to beat you down on this, really. Just providing food for thought.
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
</div></div>
I like the idea Ratbert, but there is soooo much preference involved with a high end scope purchase, you really gotta try and get hands on with your prospects to check them out and, see what you like. But, I think a short paragraph along with a pic and short list of specs would be a nice comparo tool.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont think >$1500 scopes are crap either....just wanted to compare scopes with equal features, I can add any scope you would like and if this project fails no biggie, it will just fade down the page count, I just like to have a non-emotional way to evaluate purchases and do research... </div></div>
Sure, I hear you. Just consider, do you decide if you want a BMW or a Porche based on a check-box for "Air Conditioner?" Not trying to beat you down on this, really. Just providing food for thought.
Perhaps there is a different (better?) way to provide baseline info on what high-end scopes are available out there? Maybe just a short paragraph on each or something, all located in the same thread?
</div></div>
I like the idea Ratbert, but there is soooo much preference involved with a high end scope purchase, you really gotta try and get hands on with your prospects to check them out and, see what you like. But, I think a short paragraph along with a pic and short list of specs would be a nice comparo tool.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all the above factors are somewhat subjective and hard to put on a spreadsheet....I could add a warranty column and years in production column...thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!!
Could someone please give me these stats (years in production and warranty for each scope)?</div></div>
For the NF NXS:
The second focal plane NXS scopes have been available since 1999-2000.
They started to see military use in early 2002 in a limited capacity (mainly .300WM’s etc) and have been purchasing heavily ever since.
The F1 has been in limited Military use for almost 2 years now with more being purchased all the time.
Nightforce scopes have a Limited Lifetime Warranty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">all the above factors are somewhat subjective and hard to put on a spreadsheet....I could add a warranty column and years in production column...thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!!
Could someone please give me these stats (years in production and warranty for each scope)?</div></div>
For the NF NXS:
The second focal plane NXS scopes have been available since 1999-2000.
They started to see military use in early 2002 in a limited capacity (mainly .300WM’s etc) and have been purchasing heavily ever since.
The F1 has been in limited Military use for almost 2 years now with more being purchased all the time.
Nightforce scopes have a Limited Lifetime Warranty.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
</div></div>
yes, want to have the year the scope was released...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
yes, want to have the year the scope was released...
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
</div></div>
yes, want to have the year the scope was released...</div></div>
Might want to rethink your 1907 date for the Lupy's then.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 30caluser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hensoldt is the Zeiss brand for military optics, and I think they have been around "a few" years earlier than 2007...
yes, want to have the year the scope was released...</div></div>
Might want to rethink your 1907 date for the Lupy's then.
Re: scope comparison spread sheet
I think that all the scopes currently up there have Lifetime warranties.
You might also want to note features that are optional i.e. ZS on the NXS line.
I think that all the scopes currently up there have Lifetime warranties.
You might also want to note features that are optional i.e. ZS on the NXS line.
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