Rifle Scopes Scope Decision

[64E]

Gents,

I have been doing extensive research for my next scope purchase. I have read countless threads here about the various scopes I’m about to mention.

First off: I have access to ExpertVoice, and Leupold VIP pricing. I have shot limited PRS Southeast series events and I really enjoyed them. My current scope is the Burris XTR II 5-25x50 Illuminated with the SCR MIL reticle. I mounted it in ARC M10 rings. Next year I am trying a new barrel and cartridge and I am ready to upgrade my scope. The main problem is I don’t have access to any of these scopes at the moment to actually lay my hands on. The scope is to be used as a dedicated PRS scope. Not a crossover PRS/Hunting scope. Weight is not a huge concern. My friends have GEN 2 Razors with EBR 2C and EBR 7C reticles. I like them as well but they are unobtainium new at a comparable price/value point right now.

Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30x50 on sale now at Midway for $1250 with the Tremor 3 reticle.

PRO: Price, no need to buy new rings

CON: Looks like it will soon be an older model, 50MM objective, No illumination, 75M Parallax, No Scope Caps, No idea how I would actually like the Tremor 3 reticle. Most guys on here tend to say it is too cluttered. If it was for one of my hunting rigs I would definitely try it.
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Leupold MK5 7-35x56.

PRO: Magnification, I like their Zero Stop design and -.5 mil ability, comes with scope caps.

CON: 35MM tube will require new mount, 75M Parallax, No Illumination, PR2 reticle not available yet.

UNSURE: I think I would like the CCH over the Tremor 3 reticle. Both are busy. Academically I think the open center .25 windage marks are genius.

(Side Note) If the 5-25 version would show as in stock again with the PR2 reticle this would all be over because I would snap it up in a heart beat.
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Leica 5-30x56 PRS

PRO: Matches my spotting scope which I am really impressed with. Tool less turrets which can be set to leave room to dial under. 20M Parallax, Illumination, 34MM tube so most likely will not need a new mount.

CON: PRB reticle does not have glowing reviews. I wish the vertical stadia was more than 1 mil high from center. I know Cal Zant is very interested in ELR. I am worried the reticle will be too thin at say around 15-20 X. I cant lay my hands on one to test it myself without buying it.

UNSURE: Academically I like the reticle. I wish it was a .05 floating dot based on the reviews of other scopes instead of an open circle.
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Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56

PRO: I like the SCR2 reticle. 20M Parallax, Field of view. Most likely would not need to buy new rings.

CON: No illumination, Not a straightforward MIL/LE program. Still not sure where I can find the best price.

UNSURE: Mixed reviews on this one
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Any opinions on this? Should I end the OCD and just grab the XRS II for a good deal with the Tremor 3 reticle? Will the Leupold come back in stock at some point in the next three months? Decisions, Decisions.

Thanks for any and all responses.

 

[346ci]

I don't have any experience with the others you listed but did just get a 3.3x18 XTR3 with the SCR2 and they did a good job on it. The no illumination sucks but they are working on one.

I kept watching the PX for a used one and found a deal, will get a 2nd XTR3 when another comes along.

 

[64E]

Thanks 346ci. From the reviews I have read, everyone agrees that the XTR III is a great scope. One or two negative experiences but they were handled well from what I can tell. The reticle is what interests me in the 30X version. It’s a more simple tree compared to the other options. I mostly dial for elevation and hold for wind.

 

[64E]

I was sorta expecting someone to tell me to get the XRS II for the blowout price on it right now. I‘m going to take the fact that no one has, as confirmation that the other scopes outclass it.

 

[MakeSawdust]

The XTR3 is a solid scope. We have the 5-30 and have no complaints. It is not the best glass in that price range (Razor AMG is a little better), but it is damn close. It is rugged and tracks with good glass, good reticle, and a good fov. The turrets are very good as well. I like it better than my AMGs in every aspect except glass and illumination. The reticles are a wash. I like them both. The parallax adjusts fairly close for use on a .22 if you wish and it has a good depth of field. I honestly have zero complaints. When comparing to an XTR2 it is a huge step up. If comparing to higher dollar optics it has a VERY SMALL amount of CA, but it is only noticeable in harsh conditions at super high magnification.

I have not messed with an xrs2 but have played a bit with a dmr2 (not pro model) and I didn't find anything to complain about except maybe the FOV was a bit tight. There are several good scopes in the 1500-2000 dollar range. Pick the one you like and drive on.

 

[Harman117]

I was sorta expecting someone to tell me to get the XRS II for the blowout price on it right now. I‘m going to take the fact that no one has, as confirmation that the other scopes outclass it.

Completely wrong assessment and terrible logic. I purchased one of the gray XTR II models with the illuminated G3 Reticle, and have been VERY impressed with it especially considering the price you can buy one now. (And that's comparing it side by side with a Schmidt and Bender PMII)

Unless you specifically want the Tremor 3 reticle just stick with the G3 and save the money.

At this current blowout sale you will not get a better scope for $1100. I don't say that lightly.

 

[Glassaholic]

I just picked up an XTR III 5.5-30x56 and have been very impressed so far, I like the SCR2 reticle in the 5.5-30 better than I did in the 3.3-18 I had, but both could use illumination for those of us who like a little help in certain conditions. You typically don't see these scopes on sale and Burris does not offer them with their mil/le program, I think Bison Tactical had a BF deal on them, but everywhere I look they are back up in price. They do show up on the classifieds and can typically be had for under $1400 and sometimes under $1300. If Burris ever comes out with illumination, my guess is we'll probably see quite a few show up in the classifieds.

The Leica PRS 5-30x56 has great interest for me but that PRB reticle is horrific and the Ballistic reticle doesn't have the tree which is not a deal breaker, especially since the majority of us dial for elevation anyway, but I like tree dots (not diamonds, or circles, or octagons or anything like that, just give me simple dots in the tree, is that too much to ask). I'd be really curious how the XTR III 5.5-30 and the Leica PRS 5-30 compare

 

[cjs88]

If you have expertvoice, how is a Razor HD Gen II unobtainable? Get a 3k+ scope for cheap.

 

[64E]

Completely wrong assessment and terrible logic. I purchased one of the gray XTR II models with the illuminated G3 Reticle, and have been VERY impressed with it especially considering the price you can buy one now. (And that's comparing it side by side with a Schmidt and Bender PMII)

Unless you specifically want the Tremor 3 reticle just stick with the G3 and save the money.

At this current blowout sale you will not get a better scope for $1100. I don't say that lightly.

View attachment 7495281

Having no .2 hashes is what knocks the G3 reticle out of PRS scope contention for me. The illuminated G3 for hunting would be fine IMHO but then you are looking at a fairly heavy scope. The SCR reticle I have now has the .2 marks for windage but not for elevation. I find myself guessing out in space when I have to hold for a stage. That is why I would be looking at the Tremor 3 in the XRS II.

 

[64E]

If you have expertvoice, how is a Razor HD Gen II unobtainable? Get a 3k+ scope for cheap.

With the 2C or 7C reticle. Horus upcharge is the deal killer in this specific instance.

 

[USMC 308]

First here to mention the Athlon Cronus BTR. It's made in the exact same place a the Razor GenII and every bit as good for half the price.

 

[tarheel7734]

I agree about the razor. We also get a discount directly through razor that is a bit better than expertvoice discount. Its under 1800.00 for the 7c reticle.

 

[JC0352]

People have been able to hit targets before .2 hashmarks. I went from a Gen 2 razor with EBR7c to an XRS II with G3 and I regret nothing. It’s a great scope and I like it better than the razor. The simpler reticle has not held me back at matches.

 

[toxic]

I'm looking for a similar scope in the near future, have experience with a Razor HD gen II 4.5-27x56, how does the XTR III compare? The razors can be had for 1999 currently for the vortex reticles, which I would get the 7c reticle. I had no complaints at all with the one I had, and always been a big vortex fan, just wondering how the XTR III compares at 150 less.

 

[tarheel7734]

I'm looking for a similar scope in the near future, have experience with a Razor HD gen II 4.5-27x56, how does the XTR III compare? The razors can be had for 1999 currently for the vortex reticles, which I would get the 7c reticle. I had no complaints at all with the one I had, and always been a big vortex fan, just wondering how the XTR III compares at 150 less.

Scr2 reticle doesn't have illum.

 

[toxic]

Scr2 reticle doesn't have illum.

I've never had an instance where I felt I needed illumination, but I would prefer the feature to be available, but definitely not a deal breaker. Sorry for the hijack OP.

 

[Harman117]

Having no .2 hashes is what knocks the G3 reticle out of PRS scope contention for me. The illuminated G3 for hunting would be fine IMHO but then you are looking at a fairly heavy scope. The SCR reticle I have now has the .2 marks for windage but not for elevation. I find myself guessing out in space when I have to hold for a stage. That is why I would be looking at the Tremor 3 in the XRS II.

H59 is also available in the XRS II if I remember correctly? Similar information to Tremor 3 minus wind dots

 

[64E]

I just picked up an XTR III 5.5-30x56 and have been very impressed so far, I like the SCR2 reticle in the 5.5-30 better than I did in the 3.3-18 I had, but both could use illumination for those of us who like a little help in certain conditions. You typically don't see these scopes on sale and Burris does not offer them with their mil/le program, I think Bison Tactical had a BF deal on them, but everywhere I look they are back up in price. They do show up on the classifieds and can typically be had for under $1400 and sometimes under $1300. If Burris ever comes out with illumination, my guess is we'll probably see quite a few show up in the classifieds.

The Leica PRS 5-30x56 has great interest for me but that PRB reticle is horrific and the Ballistic reticle doesn't have the tree which is not a deal breaker, especially since the majority of us dial for elevation anyway, but I like tree dots (not diamonds, or circles, or octagons or anything like that, just give me simple dots in the tree, is that too much to ask). I'd be really curious how the XTR III 5.5-30 and the Leica PRS 5-30 compare

I know you have extensive experience behind the MK5 line. I enjoy your reviews of various scopes. Would you say that the XTR III glass is comparable to the MK 5?

I have been unable to find a review that directly compares the MK 5 glass to the Leica. DLO’s review compared the Leica glass to more expensive scopes than the MK 5 and it compared favorably. I think the Leica is a good deal for me if my current ring height works and you factor in the 20M Parallax + Illumination. I do admit though that I have never used the illum in my XTR II at a match. I can deal with the tree markings I think, but really wish the vertical went above 1 mil....

 

[Glassaholic]

I know you have extensive experience behind the MK5 line. I enjoy your reviews of various scopes. Would you say that the XTR III glass is comparable to the MK 5?

I have been unable to find a review that directly compares the MK 5 glass to the Leica. DLO’s review compared the Leica glass to more expensive scopes than the MK 5 and it compared favorably. I think the Leica is a good deal for me if my current ring height works and you factor in the 20M Parallax + Illumination. I do admit though that I have never used the illum in my XTR II at a match. I can deal with the tree markings I think, but really wish the vertical went above 1 mil....

I would not say I have "extensive" experience with Mark 5 scopes, I had the 3.6-18x44 but I have not seen the 7-35 which is what you're interested in. Just because a scope comes from the same "line" doesn't mean the quality is equal throughout and there is sample variance as well. So I hesitate to say, that because (in my samples) the XTR III glass was "better" than the Mark 5 glass when comparing the 3.6-18x44 to the 3.3-18x50, this doesn't necessarily mean the same for the 7-35 vs 5.5-30, if that makes sense. They are completely different optical designs and thus have their own unique challenges to overcome.

All the scopes you've mentioned have a really good track record so I think it's really going to come down to which reticle you like the most. Have you used a Horus reticle before? As you mentioned they are very busy and some have difficulty spotting their own splash with them. I had the Tremor3 in the Mark 5 3.6-18x44 and tried my best to like that reticle but just couldn't get over how busy it is, heck I even think the SKMR3 and MPCT2 style reticles are busy with their solid lines in the horizontal of the Christmas tree. You mention the Vortex Gen II being unobtanium at the price; however, the Leica PRS is slightly more than the Vortex on EV? If you don't have access to Vortex through EV (and even if you do), I highly recommend you giving Scott at Liberty Optics a call, Scott is "the guy" for Vortex and can usually get better deals for us Hider's than even the mil/le discounts.

Finally, you mention "if my current ring height works", I'm guessing you are wondering if one of the 56mm objective scopes will fit and not bump into your barrel? What barrel profile are you running or are you using a chassis with continuous rail? What height ARC M10's are you using? Either way, don't let your ring height limit your choices, even if you have ARC M10 24mm/.94" rings, you can always put up a WTT ad here on the hide and say you want to trade your M10 lows for M10 mediums (28mm) or whatever you decide will work - ARC M10's are very popular on the Hide so you should have no issue trading. If you're worried the scope will be too high because you do not have an adjustable cheek piece then head over to Triad Tactical and pick up one of his stock packs, they work excellent.

 

[64E]

Than

I would not say I have "extensive" experience with Mark 5 scopes, I had the 3.6-18x44 but I have not seen the 7-35 which is what you're interested in. Just because a scope comes from the same "line" doesn't mean the quality is equal throughout and there is sample variance as well. So I hesitate to say, that because (in my samples) the XTR III glass was "better" than the Mark 5 glass when comparing the 3.6-18x44 to the 3.3-18x50, this doesn't necessarily mean the same for the 7-35 vs 5.5-30, if that makes sense. They are completely different optical designs and thus have their own unique challenges to overcome.

All the scopes you've mentioned have a really good track record so I think it's really going to come down to which reticle you like the most. Have you used a Horus reticle before? As you mentioned they are very busy and some have difficulty spotting their own splash with them. I had the Tremor3 in the Mark 5 3.6-18x44 and tried my best to like that reticle but just couldn't get over how busy it is, heck I even think the SKMR3 and MPCT2 style reticles are busy with their solid lines in the horizontal of the Christmas tree. You mention the Vortex Gen II being unobtanium at the price; however, the Leica PRS is slightly more than the Vortex on EV? If you don't have access to Vortex through EV (and even if you do), I highly recommend you giving Scott at Liberty Optics a call, Scott is "the guy" for Vortex and can usually get better deals for us Hider's than even the mil/le discounts.

Finally, you mention "if my current ring height works", I'm guessing you are wondering if one of the 56mm objective scopes will fit and not bump into your barrel? What barrel profile are you running or are you using a chassis with continuous rail? What height ARC M10's are you using? Either way, don't let your ring height limit your choices, even if you have ARC M10 24mm/.94" rings, you can always put up a WTT ad here on the hide and say you want to trade your M10 lows for M10 mediums (28mm) or whatever you decide will work - ARC M10's are very popular on the Hide so you should have no issue trading. If you're worried the scope will be too high because you do not have an adjustable cheek piece then head over to Triad Tactical and pick up one of his stock packs, they work excellent.

All the reviews I have read are starting to run together. My general takeaway has been that the MK5 line in the 5-25 and 7-35 outclass the 3-18 optically due to not being so compact.

I have never used a Horus Reticle. My general takeaway has been that if you are going with a Horus, you might as well run the Tremor 3 over the H59. Both are busy.

Vortex vs Leica: The Leica is actually available. The Vortex is not available with 2C or 7C reticle on EV. I will give Liberty Optics a call and see what they say. I haven’t looked into contacting Vortex direct like a previous poster mentioned. I need to look into that as well.

The rings I have are the 34MM Low. The chart on the ARC homepage shows them possibly working with a 56MM objective.

My new barrel is a M24 contour, remage, on a REM 700 action mounted in a KRG Bravo. The XTR II clears fine with a Tenabraex caps but I believe it will be awful close with a 56MM objective.

Thanks for the helpful replies.

 

[MakeSawdust]

I'm looking for a similar scope in the near future, have experience with a Razor HD gen II 4.5-27x56, how does the XTR III compare? The razors can be had for 1999 currently for the vortex reticles, which I would get the 7c reticle. I had no complaints at all with the one I had, and always been a big vortex fan, just wondering how the XTR III compares at 150 less.

I have looked through several Razor G2, but have not owned one. I have even done load development and gathered dope for other people's guns with them. I do not know how far apart in manufacture date they have been. They have had a lot of sample variation. The worst was not as good as my lowly XTR2 4-20 with the 8 mil turrets. I was shooting them side by side. The scope was sent back and returned as in spec. The best (and most of the ones I have looked through) have been on par with the xtr3. The color/brightness is different though. The coatings on the xtr3 make it seem very bright. The G2 razor has a cooler color tone. I have tested both watching deer until it was very dark. They both perform well in low light. Th g2 razor weighs significantly more than the xtr3 if that is a factor one way or the other. Lastly, my main match scope is a Razor AMG. I switch barrels from 6mm to 223 to practice. I love L-tec turrets for switch barrel rigs because it is easy to record and return to a previous zero on several different barrels without getting lost. That said, I absolutely HATE zeroing with L-tec turrets. I would rather shoot, measure, adjust, shoot, and slip the scales to zero.