Rifle Scopes Scope elevation problem

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

I have a Savage 10fcp in .308 with a NF 8-32x56 BR on it under a set of 30mm Millett rings and a 20moa 1 piece base.

My problem is my 400 zero max's out my turret. I can adust downward but can't adjust for a further zero. All shots over 400yds have to be held over for because my turret won't adust any more. Ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ballistic1]

Re: Scope elevation problem

Nightforce states that their Benchrest 8-32 has 50MOA of elevation capability.

With your 20MOA base and the 50MOA of elevation, you should have no problem dialing elevation out to 1000 yards or more, with your 308.

I have a NXS 8-32 mounted on a 20MOA base on my REM700 308.
My 100 yard zero is nearing the bottom end of my elevation range. From 100, I only need 8 MOA to get to 400yards, which leaves me with lots of available elevation still remaining at my disposal.

Sounds like your situation at hand could be either within the scope itself, or perhaps in one or more of the mounting components is creating the issue.

With 1/8 MOA click Turrets, and stated 50MOA available MOA of elevation in your scope, you should have around 400 +/- of elevation clicks across the full range. You could wind the elevation down to the bottom, and count your clicks up to see how many actually have available. If you end up far short of 50MOA of travel, then perhaps your scope has an internal issue that needs addressed.

Naturally, if you have one of the New version Benchrest scopes that have 1/4MOA turrets, then the count would have to be adjusted for said value.

I am curious to know what transpires here for you in this issue, please post your solution once you find it.

 

[XTR]

Re: Scope elevation problem

Obvious question, is it possible that your base is mounted backward?

I just had a similar discovery but it was getting out to 1000 yds, I need a bit more base for my BR, 20 MOA wont make it.
The math says that if your 100 yd zero centers the erector with 25 up and down then a 20 MOA base will give you 5 down and 45 up from your zero. You should have plenty of room.

At 400 yds you should only need about 8 MOA of travel from a 100 yd zer. I can see it if your base is backward (high in the front) you'd only have about 5 MOA plus or minus a little of elevation left.

My discovery was that my 20MOA base zero's me at 100 with 18 down and 32 up, which leaves me about 6MOA short of what I think I need to get to 1000yds.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I think they might have sent me the wrong base after really looking at it. This one doesn't look canted at all.

Even with a flat base I shouldn't be maxed out on elevation at 400yds, though. I've got something else going on here, I think.

I "reset" the scope in the rings by loosening the screws, sliding the scope around a little then re-torquing the screws. I'll hit the range on Thur and see how it does.

 

[Quickdraw40]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I have a buddy with a 10BA who only had like 14 MOA up with the factory base and a (65 MOA) PST. He borrowed one of my 20 MOA bases and now he has 34 MOA up (100 yd zero). Something is up with recent Savage actions.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I went back and checked my order of the base and I fucked up and ordered a flat base.

I still don't think I should top out at 400 though. I hope I just fucked up the torque on the rings somehow and that's what's causing the rest of my issue. I use a torque screwdriver though so I doubt that's the culprit, but maybe it is.

I did order a 20moa base this time though. I must not have though I would need one at the time, who knows.

 

[XTR]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrazyTrain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went back and checked my order of the base and I fucked up and ordered a flat base.

I still don't think I should top out at 400 though. I hope I just fucked up the torque on the rings somehow and that's what's causing the rest of my issue. I use a torque screwdriver though so I doubt that's the culprit, but maybe it is.

I did order a 20moa base this time though. I must not have though I would need one at the time, who knows. </div></div>

See my post above, if you are topping out at 400 with a flat base you probably should have gotten a 30 MOA base. If you topped out at 400 or so you should have in the neighborhood of 8 MOA up right now, adding 20 to that 8 is only going to get you out to about 850 or so before you top out again.

Oddly enough, as it works out now, if I took the 20MOA base off of the 32 BR that I have now I'd only have about 12MOA of upward adjustment, so I'd run out somewhere near 500 yds. Sounds like nightforce is centering the reticles a little on the high side.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrazyTrain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went back and checked my order of the base and I fucked up and ordered a flat base.

I still don't think I should top out at 400 though. I hope I just fucked up the torque on the rings somehow and that's what's causing the rest of my issue. I use a torque screwdriver though so I doubt that's the culprit, but maybe it is.

I did order a 20moa base this time though. I must not have though I would need one at the time, who knows. </div></div>

save your self a lot of time and money and get proper equipment, (get decent rings and a torque wrench). I dont care even if you had a crappy scope still torque it properly. a few inch pounds over what is spec can be devastating. You can use cheap rings but make sure they are lapped, what happens to a lot of guys I know is they get cheap rings mount the scope and are then having all sorts of trouble zeroing to find out that the scope is moving. They then crank even harder on the rings to the extent of misaligning the rings and or damaging the scope tube. Most optic companies wont warranty a scope if they sense you didn't torque it right.

 

[steve123]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrazyTrain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Savage 10fcp in .308 with a NF 8-32x56 BR on it under a set of 30mm Millett rings and a 20moa 1 piece base.

My problem is my 400 zero max's out my turret. I can adust downward but can't adjust for a further zero. All shots over 400yds have to be held over for because my turret won't adust any more. Ideas?

Thanks in advance. </div></div>

Get some Burris Signature rings.With the inserts you can orient the scope however you need to.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I just discovered the burris rings. I'm ordering a couple sets of these for my other rifles too.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get some Burris Signature rings.With the inserts you can orient the scope however you need to. </div></div>

I guess they don't make the offset ring inserts for the 30mm available in a "sold separately" pack like they do the 1" ring sets.

MidwayUSA's description does include a set of .010" inserts with the 30mm rings, though. Maybe the 1" inserts are flexible enough to be, and are, used with the 30mm rings. I'll have to call them on that. Either way, they're friggin genious.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Re: Scope elevation problem

It is possible that the barrel/reciever are not true and the barrel is pointing down, I have seen this happen once, if the barrel was off by 20 or 30 thou where it interfaces with the receiver at 400 yards it would be a lot. We had a remington at my friends gun shop that he ordered brand new and went to boresight it and he could not not get enough windage adjustment out of the scope to even boresight. the barrel was either bent or it was not true, he wound up sending it back to the factory. I also saw this happen on an ar15 that we never could get sighted in.

 

[steve123]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrazyTrain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get some Burris Signature rings.With the inserts you can orient the scope however you need to. </div></div>

I guess they don't make the offset ring inserts for the 30mm available in a "sold separately" pack like they do the 1" ring sets.

MidwayUSA's description does include a set of .010" inserts with the 30mm rings, though. Maybe the 1" inserts are flexible enough to be, and are, used with the 30mm rings. I'll have to call them on that. Either way, they're friggin genious. </div></div>

Yep It's a pain they do it this way but the .10 30mm's if put close enough together will give plenty of angle.The 1" won't work in the 30mm rings.No half hassing man

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrazyTrain</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get some Burris Signature rings.With the inserts you can orient the scope however you need to. </div></div>

I guess they don't make the offset ring inserts for the 30mm available in a "sold separately" pack like they do the 1" ring sets.

MidwayUSA's description does include a set of .010" inserts with the 30mm rings, though. Maybe the 1" inserts are flexible enough to be, and are, used with the 30mm rings. I'll have to call them on that. Either way, they're friggin genious. </div></div>

Yep It's a pain they do it this way but the .10 30mm's if put close enough together will give plenty of angle.The 1" won't work in the 30mm rings.No half hassing man

</div></div>

I thought that might have been there way of doing it. They'll just be a nice addition now that I've got this 20 moa base on here. They will be going on my AR and my LR though. I love the idea of these.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniperhandle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is possible that the barrel/reciever are not true and the barrel is pointing down, I have seen this happen once, if the barrel was off by 20 or 30 thou where it interfaces with the receiver at 400 yards it would be a lot. We had a remington at my friends gun shop that he ordered brand new and went to boresight it and he could not not get enough windage adjustment out of the scope to even boresight. the barrel was either bent or it was not true, he wound up sending it back to the factory. I also saw this happen on an ar15 that we never could get sighted in. </div></div>

Naw, It's not that. I ordered a flat base when I thought I ordered a 20 moa base and that's what kept me from going more than 400. I have a 20 moa base on it now and am only zeroed at 200 yds for now. The steel targets at my range on the 1000 yard line were missing the day I went to the range so I had to shoot on the 200 yd bay.

Right now, with a 20 moa base and a 200 yd zero with 155 scenars, my elev turret is sitting in the second rotation line at 3.75 (roughly) moa into it....This description is all jacked up, I know, but I don't know any better way to describe it yet. Still real new a these scopes.

So, at a 200 yd zero, my dope would be 6 moa up, from this setting, to get me back to the original 400 yd zero, which would put my turret in the 3rd rotation line at the same 3.75 (roughly) moa into it. This leaves me another 3 roation lines and 2.25 moa I can dial for longer distances.

Ok somebody tell me how I should have written that correctly, please. It makes sense in my head but I know I fucked up the translation for ya'll. I only hope someone understands my jibberish, lol.

Thanks

 

[MTETM]

Re: Scope elevation problem

Did you bed your bases? I have had to bed all of our savage actions and those of several friend to get the elevation correct.

I would suggest you do a search here for bedding scope bases. When you are done with it I would imagine you will find that you have all the elevation you need with the 20moa base.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I haven't bedded the action yet. I've been really lazy about getting it bedding simply because it's giving me consistent .4moa groups and just gave me a .31moa group with 155 scenars at 200 yds. I'm almost afraid to touch it, lol. How much more consistency should I expect to see with a bedding job? The guns' on an HS precision stock with an aluminum bed. Here's a pic:

 

[MTETM]

Re: Scope elevation problem

I haven't bedded the action yet. I've been really lazy about getting it bedding simply because it's giving me consistent .4moa groups and just gave me a .31moa group with 155 scenars at 200 yds. I'm almost afraid to touch it, lol. How much more consistency should I expect to see with a bedding job? The guns' on an HS precision stock with an aluminum bed. Here's a pic:

I wasn't talking about bedding the action to the stock.
You need to bed the Scope Base to the receiver.
If you remove the scope and the screws to the scope base you will find that either the front or the rear of the scope base is not touching the receiver.
Set the base on the action, insert the front screw only and tighten it... odds are the rear of the base will not be in contact with the rear of the receiver. This gap needs to be filled with bedding compound. This will then allow the true value of the base to be realized.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

Ahhhhh, I see. I was way off, lol.

I'm going to see if I have enough elev with this new base before I do anything else to it....unless there's other, good reasons to do it. Is there?

 

[Dodgefan]

Re: Scope elevation problem

CrazyTrain I should probably let MTETM answer, but the best reason to bed the scope base is to achieve stress free scope mounting. If the base is being bent as you tighten it down it puts torque on the scope tube.
Another thing is I doubt if to many people are going to recommend the Millet rings. I've never used them, but I can't say I've ever heard anything positive about them.

 

[Kelly The Lionfish Hunter]

Re: Scope elevation problem

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dodgefan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CrazyTrain I should probably let MTETM answer, but the best reason to bed the scope base is to achieve stress free scope mounting. If the base is being bent as you tighten it down it puts torque on the scope tube.
Another thing is I doubt if to many people are going to recommend the Millet rings. I've never used them, but I can't say I've ever heard anything positive about them. </div></div>

That makes sense to me. I'll get it done for sure. And the Millets wil be replaced by the Burris rings. I knew they were low end when I got them but they work fine and will be back up rings in the future.