Rifle Scopes Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

[Narwhal]

Hi,

First off I'm a total novice. This is the first time I've ever tried to mount a scope so I probably did something dumb.

I have an LRB M14 that I've attempted to mount a Super Sniper 10x42 scope on. I bought some Super Sniper "low" picatinny rings to go with it. The scope mount is a basset machine picatinny low if it matters.

I tried to mount the scope as far rearward as I could to get the best eye relief. I have atttached a picture to demonstrate this. The rings are not encroaching on the bell of the objective as mounted.

I managed to get the scope zeroed at 30 yards but it only held there for 5 rounds or so. Then the rounds would begin to wander. Eventually, after 40 or 50 rounds, I looked at the rifle and saw that the scope had slid forward about 2".

When I installed scope into the rings I just hand tightened them with a 3" allen wrench tool, taking care not to over torque the screws. However, I noticed there was still about a 1/8" gap between the bottom and top halves of the scope rings. I attached the scope rings to the rail with a socket wrench, again very snugly but not over doing it.

Anyway, that's the gist of my problem and I'd appreciate any recommendations.

I'm considering going to a gunsmith and having my rings lapped, even though I've read you're not supposed to do that with aluminum rings.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,

Narwhal

Picture:

 

[mtang45]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Not tight enough. If you wish to make sure you have the proper torque, buy a in/lb torque wrench and tighten to around 20 in/lb.

 

[Narwhal]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Thanks...yeah, I guess I should probably just break down and buy the torque wrench before I resort to a gunsmith. I thought I had them pretty tight, and after the scope moved there were white scrape marks on it. I guess I was just too paranoid about damaging the scope by over torquing.

 

[mtang45]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Nice looking setup BTW

 

[goodmanfj]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Nice set up , Homedepot has a torque wrench at $40.00 online only , Looks like your gona need a high rise cheek rest for that set up . It may be worth it to let someone set the scope and level it.Its like $25.00 here ,

 

[Erud]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Here is my 4-step guaranteed cure for all scope-related problems with M1A rifles:

1. Remove scope and rail from M1A
2. Buy different rifle
3. Put scope on new rifle
4. Shoot M1A with the iron sights, like God intended

Works every time!

 

[Augustus]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Your next problem will be keeping that mount stationary. It will most likely shake loose. I mounted a scope on an M14 for my nephew and could not keep it zeroed. I finally bought a steel mount and welded it on.

 

[The_FNG]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my 4-step guaranteed cure for all scope-related problems with M1A rifles:

1. Remove scope and rail from M1A
2. Buy different rifle
3. Put scope on new rifle
4. Shoot M1A with the iron sights, like God intended

Works every time!

</div></div>

This...

Awesome looking rifle otherwise.

 

[Narwhal]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Guys, it's a removable scope mount. I do use the rifle primarily with irons. If you haven't heard of it, check out http://www.bassettmachine.com/ . It returns to within 1/2 MOA of zero when removed and reinstalled (comes with a torque wrench which uses the weight of the rifle to tighten the mounting screw).

Pretty much the whole point of the setup is so that I can test some handloads with the scope then go back to shooting irons the rest of the time. That's why I just went for the cheapie Super Sniper scope.

I've had no problem at all with the mount coming lose so far, just the scope moving inside the rings. Granted I've only done 50 shots or so. I re-tightened the rings as tight as I could possibly get them by hand and will re-try.

Drove all over town looking for an adjustable torque wrench but could only find the big 2 foot longs socket wrenchs that had a minimum setting of 5 ft-lbs or so.

 

[Erud]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

The Borka torque wrench kit(search here on Sniper's Hide) is good stuff.

 

[bentbolt308]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

make sure the threads are clean before you torque your rings also.

 

[Narwhal]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

Well after I cranked down on the rings as hard as I could by hand with the supplied torx head allen wrench, I took it to the range today. The scope held steady after 50 rounds.

Unfortunately I couldn't get the eyepiece focus adjusted just right so I didn't get a good zero. The reticle would get very blurry almost to the point of disappearing when held on the target and adjusting the focus didn't seem to help. I was at an indoor range and I think there just wasn't enough light. I probably do need a cheek riser too.

I will do some research on parallax adjustments and try again at an outdoor range later this week; but at least the scope isn't moving anymore.

I used to have a long eye relief burris 2-7x pistol scope on an older M1A with a "scout mount" on the barrel and it sure was a lot easier to set up than this!

Thanks for the help, and I guess problem solved for now! I just needed to tighten the rings down a little more.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Erud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is my 4-step guaranteed cure for all scope-related problems with M1A rifles:

1. Remove scope and rail from M1A
2. Buy different rifle
3. Put scope on new rifle
4. Shoot M1A with the iron sights, like God intended

Works every time!

</div></div>

I'll third this. Myself and a few friends have just about put ourselves in the crazy house trying to put glass on a m1a/m14.

 

[hamstur]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Narwhal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys, it's a removable scope mount. I do use the rifle primarily with irons. If you haven't heard of it, check out http://www.bassettmachine.com/ . It returns to within 1/2 MOA of zero when removed and reinstalled (comes with a torque wrench which uses the weight of the rifle to tighten the mounting screw).</div></div>

Good to see re-tightening the rings fixed it!

Don't bother justifying your build -- God did not design the M14 -- although Uncle Sam configured the M21 decades before the Mk11. I love my scoped M1A. The mount has never given me a single issue.

Re: the mount returning to within 1/2 MOA, that's assuming you perfectly reinstalled it which rarely happens. Highly recommend looking into one with a built-in iron sight channel like Sadlak or Smith Enterprise.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

I had a problem with a well known company's scope rings. What had happened was that the anodizing built up inside the mounting threads. So when I torqued it down the ring half was still loose. I had all sorts of issues trying to do a box test when I noticed my scope moved all the way back. So I re-tightened it again, same thing. Then I bought another ring to add 3 rings, that is when I noticed that the screws where not seating down as far as they should. Took a repair tap and cleaned out the anodizing. Problem solved.

Just my unfortunate ring experience...Was more my fault for not noticing the screws not seating like they should.

 

[RubenZ]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

I know this thread is old, but are you sure you put the Inserts that come with Rings?

 

[billyburl2]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

The scope is a 30mm tube, Don't use the inserts.

 

[RubenZ]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

That is true. My bad.

 

[redirt78]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

I you want a riser you should check this out.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">TNVC cheek riser/stock pack for M14-M1A</span> <-link

 

[dbsinh2o]

Re: Scope moves under recoil: SWFA SS 10x42 &SS Rings

The Bassett mount uses round hardened pins to index itself to existing slots in the receiver. While it doesn't have quite the tacticool factor of the SEI, it most certainly does hold it's zero. Mine has been on and off dozens of times. If you can fog a mirror, you can install this thing correctly.

Having replaced my SEI with a Bassett, I sure prefer the latter. Anyone with average manual dexterity can remove or replace it in about 15 seconds. It doesn't require removal of the stripper clip guide, and it doesn't leave a mark on top of the barrel band from a tensioning screw. It will fit multiple receivers with small dimensional variations with no need for additional machining (can't say that about the others). You can pull it right off, and be legal for a Service Rifle match - so you can shoot it like God intended, and you can clean it like God intended too. The sight channel is a nice idea, but depending on your scope's eye relief it can also be a recipe for leaving a Butler Creek impression on your forehead.