Rifle Scopes scope question for 1,000 yard

[cp3head]

I have read several posts on this subject, and on various scopes on here. I have not found what I am looking for. I have a .300 win mag that is almost ready to be picked up from the gunsmith, so now it is time to get a scope. This rifle will be for 1,000 yard prone and bench (the only other range might be 600 yard prone). With that being said, I have it down to 2-3 scopes. They are:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=662297
http://swfa.com/Leupold-6-18x40-VX-II-Riflescope-P2584.aspx
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=594844

I would like any input that can be offered. I know that some are 1" and some are 30mm, with AO and side focus, 40mm vs 50mm etc. Is there any advantage of having saying a 1" 40mm objective vs a 30mm with 50 mm objective (mostly light gathering vs having the scope closer to the barrel)

I didn't mention the higher end scopes like nightforce, us optics etc. because they are more than I am willing to spend right now. If I do go that route, I am thinking of a fixed 17 power from US Optics (http://usoptics.com/product.php?partnumber=ST-1700) I prefer a target dot, or "regular" plex. I am not interested in mildots at this time.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice. If somebody has something else that I should be looking at, please let me know.

 

[remau308]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

No Vortex PST? I have one on my 1,000 yard comp rifle, and it has proven itself very well. I wouldn't count it out at all, and I would put it WAY above the first two links, and the third because it is only a target dot reticle. You may not see the advantages of having matching reticle/turrets right now, but when you start getting serious about competitions, I'm sure you will quickly change your mind.

When you start trying to read wind at that distance you will want some kind of ranging reticle to measure your hits. For instance, at my last comp I was holding .4mils to the left at 1000 yards. If I didn't have that precise reading to go off of I don't know how I would have measured. I don't dial for wind at all though because of how often it changes at my competition. I keep it dialed zero, and hold from there determined by mirage, and some vegetation readings I have to go off of.

 

[fdkay]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

I would think you would want more magnification than 14x for target shooting at 1000.

Of the three you have listed, I think I would personally choose the sightron for the intended purpose.
I think the glass will be far superior to the Vari-x II and it give you much more magnification thean the 14x model.

Since you are talking target shooting and nothing else you COULD consider the standard Viper model it is limited to 68MOA total travel (should be more than enough travle for a .300):
http://www.libertyoptics.com/index1.html

The Burris Black Diamond 8-32x has excellent glass and might be just the ticket you are looking for. Though it appears that they no longer make the fine crosshair version.

If a fixed power of 16 to 20 would suffice, the weaver target scopes are hard to beat though you can look at the super snipers.

 

[clj94104]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Viper PST 6-24x50 would be your best bang for the buck. I have heard so many good things about them. The first two considerations you have, the Leupolds, do not have a high enough magnification to hit 1000 yards....

 

[clj94104]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Look here.... http://www.opticsplanet.net/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-riflescope.html

 

[nfoley]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Of the scopes you mentioned I would go with the Sightron for shooting out to 1000 yards. Just curious why you don't like mildot reticles?

 

[remau308]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clj94104</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Viper PST 6-24x50 would be your best bang for the buck. I have heard so many good things about them. The first two considerations you have, the Leupolds, do not have a high enough magnification to hit 1000 yards.... </div></div>

It's not about magnification...at all. The PST is top notch, and has many features that make it above the others. The glass is clear and crisp, the turrets are audible and positive, and matching reticle and turrets make it a lot easier. I shot the last match using 12x because mirage was so bad, so magnification isn't a factor here.

Also, since you don't seem like you need or want a front focal plane scope, you could opt for the second focal plane scope for a little less money. I personally sold my last FFP scope and got the SFP PST I have now. Just some food for thought

 

[clj94104]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: remau308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: clj94104</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Viper PST 6-24x50 would be your best bang for the buck. I have heard so many good things about them. The first two considerations you have, the Leupolds, do not have a high enough magnification to hit 1000 yards.... </div></div>

It's not about magnification...at all. The PST is top notch, and has many features that make it above the others. The glass is clear and crisp, the turrets are audible and positive, and matching reticle and turrets make it a lot easier. I shot the last match using 12x because mirage was so bad, so magnification isn't a factor here.

Also, since you don't seem like you need or want a front focal plane scope, you could opt for the second focal plane scope for a little less money. I personally sold my last FFP scope and got the SFP PST I have now. Just some food for thought

</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cp3head</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This rifle will be for 1,000 yard prone and bench (the only other range might be 600 yard prone). </div></div>
So you're saying 14x or 18x with the Leupold he would be able to hit 1000 yards on a consistent basis?

 

[remau308]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Of course, and if you disagree then you apparently have never competed shooting that distance. On a hot summer day the mirage is intense, and if you have your magnification dialed in to spot a gnat's ass, you won't see squat. Dialing your magnification back allows you to see your hits on steel easier, read the mirage easier, and you don't see the target waving so much. I have never shot using over 18x in that competition, even though my scope now goes to 24x.

This is all assuming though that his basic skills are all in check, and the scope has the proper adjustments to make it to that distance. MY PST rocks on great, and that is why it is my personal choice for a value optic. Not the best there is, but great value.

In fact, on the practice day previous to the competition, I dialed it down to 6x to play around, and was hitting the 1MOA black dot just to say I could. You don't even need a scope to make hits at 1000 yards if you have the proper irons, so to argue that 12x, 14x, or 18x isn't enough magnification to hit at that distance is foolish.

 

[clj94104]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Learn something new every day....

 

[clj94104]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

By the way, no I have not shot at those distances. I am getting into long range shooting and was just sharing some of the knowledge shared with me on this forum. Most would say that to shoot accurately at that distance you need something higher than say 18x. I will just have to make my own opinions on the matter after a nice range day when my scope arrives.

Unfortunately there are some conflicting opinions on the matter...

 

[remau308]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

That's against the rules on this forum bro...I would delete that last comment, and would not put that stock up for sale when you do make it to 100 posts.

 

[cp3head]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Mil dot seems to be "too much going on" in the scope for my taste. If i was not shooting fixed, exact distances, then it would be a different story. Obviously most other people feel differently, otherwise the top scope producers wouldn't offer them.

Now as for my other question, what difference if any does light gathering make at 1000 yards when you are shooting in the day time? Does it help with mirage and target acquisition or does it hinder? I know that a sunshade helps some. Once again, any input would be appreciated. Thanks for the input thus far.

 

[AK Sgt Maj]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

You want a high end power variable scope for 600 to 1000 yard compitition. When the mirage gets bad, you just turn it down, but the rest of the time you want the power up. At first it will seem like to much, but what you want is to aim at a point (I aim at the X, in the X-ring) and not just the center of the target. You can also see changes in the mirage through your rifle scope and not just your spotting scope. I have a master classification in both Mid-Range (300, 500 & 600) and Long-Range (800, 900 & 1000) and you want all of the advantage you can get. There is a lot of talk by people who have not been there, and your best bet is to find a group of Prone and/or F-Class shooters in your local and they are always ready to help, esspecially new shooters.

 

[Notso]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cp3head</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mil dot seems to be "too much going on" in the scope for my taste. If i was not shooting fixed, exact distances, then it would be a different story. Obviously most other people feel differently, otherwise the top scope producers wouldn't offer them.
</div></div>
Mil dots (or hashes) is NOT just about ranging. The ability to measure and correct for your misses is what I find the most valuable thing about a mil dot (or MOA dot) reticle. The times I've shot F-class, the ability to precisely know that the marker disk is .3 mil right and .2 low of the X in the x-ring makes the correction a no-brainer when you're on the clock. Now you don't have to guess while looking through your target plex reticle and try to figure out how many inches it missed and then try to convert that to MOA clicks. Use the reticle to measure it and knock out the guess work.

 

[cowboyjoe]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

You might throw a Weaver 3-15x50 mil/mil FFP EMDR on your list to compare:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=911627

There have been several users on these and other forums which have created reviews:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2431612&page=1

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2444213

http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37770

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=536538

You might also look seriously at the PST 6-24x50 as the glass seems to be reported by some as much better than it's littler brother 4-16x50.

 

[HillbillyfromAL]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Notso summed up the benefits of a graduated reticle quite well. I'd suggest spending a little more time with a scope that has a Mil-Hash or MOA reticle before jumping on your scope. Especially if you are new to shooting those distances. I've seen guys with Plex reticles shoot through 50 rds trying to get on paper at 600, even though they were able to observe the splash of the round. When you don't have some type of graduated reticle all your doing is your best guess at what it looks like, or a lot of time back and forth inbetween target and bench. I would suggest looking at a Leupold with the TMR reticle, or any of the other mentioned MIL Hash reticles. There isn't enough going on in most of them to be a distraction. Once you take a good look at those go check out the Horus reticles. I don't think I could count that many lines and make any use of it myself. Good luck to ya

 

[notquiteright]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

I think some confusion is being caused by the blending of two different styles of LR. Steel and F-Class.

I and many other shooters have used 10X well enough on 1000 yard steel. These days I like 14X for steel. Since there are not a series of rings to gauge strike of round, MilDot comes in handy.

Now F-Class is different because the circular target has handy rings to gauge the bullet strike and how much adjustment is to be dailed or held. The target has increments so your scope doesnt need them. You will benefit from both high magnification and good glass to pierce summer mirage. Dont NEED it but it sure makes things easier.

I personally wouldnt use a V-II scope for LR competitive shooting.

Good Luck

 

[cp3head]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

Thank you all for the input, I am looking at F class, not steel. I am really leaning towards one of the Sightron S III models. Keep the input coming. I am hoping to make my mind up this week.

 

[Notso]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cp3head</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you all for the input, I am looking at F class, not steel. I am really leaning towards one of the Sightron S III models. Keep the input coming. I am hoping to make my mind up this week. </div></div>

There is fundamentally no difference in "steel" vs F-class in how a measurement reticle helps you. Yes you don't "need" a mil type reticle to shoot F-class because you have some rudimentary scales on the target to judge distance of a miss. But it's still a guess and will take time and mental calculations to make the adjustment. With the mil reticle, the Reticle tells you precisely how much to adjust and then you dial that exact amount in your turrets.

The Fudds who are most likely telling you that a fine target pled reticle is better for F-class are just most likely set in their ways and fear change. Mil dots have come a LONG way. I think even hunters are coming around to the benefits of the mil style reticle. About the only discipline I could see the fine plex or dot reticle being better would be something like BR where you don't care if you hit the X ring, just how tiny your groups are.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

My 12x powered Bushnell Elite Tactical got me to 954 yards no problem, sure I could ALWAYS use more magnification, but since I can see it clearly now with the 12x, I am fine.

And I use my mildots for ranging all the time, especially if I know the size of the target.

Other than that it pretty much tells you exactly how to adjust and you have a calculator right infront of you.

If you hit in the center of one mildot to another, then your estimated 5 clicks away. If you hit at the bottom of a mildot while aiming with the middle, your one click away. (This of course is with a .1 mil click adjustment scope).

 

[CSTactical]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

For the dollar value the PST rock.

Mike @ CST

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

i can think of a few good options

http://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-br-benchrest-C112.aspx

http://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-nxs-rifle-scopes-C348.aspx

http://www.sportoptics.com/VortexPST-624S1-M.aspx

http://www.sportoptics.com/schmidt-bender-pm-12-50x56-SPORT-MOA.aspx

 

[XTR]

Re: scope question for 1,000 yard

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Notso</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cp3head</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you all for the input, I am looking at F class, not steel. I am really leaning towards one of the Sightron S III models. Keep the input coming. I am hoping to make my mind up this week. </div></div>

There is fundamentally no difference in "steel" vs F-class in how a measurement reticle helps you. Yes you don't "need" a mil type reticle to shoot F-class because you have some rudimentary scales on the target to judge distance of a miss. But it's still a guess and will take time and mental calculations to make the adjustment. With the mil reticle, the Reticle tells you precisely how much to adjust and then you dial that exact amount in your turrets.

The Fudds who are most likely telling you that a fine target pled reticle is better for F-class are just most likely set in their ways and fear change. Mil dots have come a LONG way. I think even hunters are coming around to the benefits of the mil style reticle. About the only discipline I could see the fine plex or dot reticle being better would be something like BR where you don't care if you hit the X ring, just how tiny your groups are.

And that's all I have to say about that. </div></div>
Fuddie my ass. I think you really don't know what you're talking about. If you shoot F at 1000 and you plot your shots you know exactly how many moa it is from the 8 RING to the center of the X. For Target shooting a scaling article is busy and not necessary..