Scope Unimounts With Integral Level

[EastCOYotes]

I've never had a mount or rings with an integral level, but want to get one. Do you guys have a preference of this route over a level attached to the scope? Or maybe some prefer both?

Mounts with integral levels I'm considering right now are Spuhr & RRS

 

[b6graham]

have a spuhr. never used the level and never will. and there's several huge threads stating why they're unnecessary

 

[EastCOYotes]

have a spuhr. never used the level and never will. and there's several huge threads stating why they're unnecessary

I’ll check out those threads thanks... I guess that opens up my options to lots of other unimounts if the integral levels aren’t worth much.

 

[b6graham]

I’ll check out those threads thanks... I guess that opens up my options to lots of other unimounts if the integral levels aren’t worth much.

don't get me wrong. a spuhr is the best. but don't buy it for the level. buy it for everything else

 

[McReef]

I’ll check out those threads thanks... I guess that opens up my options to lots of other unimounts if the integral levels aren’t worth much.

I will try and save you some hunting. Keep in mind that I am a moron, but if I am off, I am sure someone will set the me straight...

Basically, all an integral level tells you is whether or not your rifle’s rail is level, which really doesn’t matter (within reason). If it works out that a comfortable grip for you tends to cant the rifle a degree or two to one side or the other, that is how you should shoulder your rifle. Don’t try to force yourself to correct for what is natural, your body will fight you on it, and your accuracy will suffer.

What you do need level, is your scope’s reticle. Hold your rifle the way you hold your rifle, then level your scope’s reticle to gravity from there. The two things don’t need to match perfectly, and probably won’t.

 

[EastCOYotes]

I will try and save you some hunting. Keep in mind that I am a moron, but if I am off, I am sure someone will set the me straight...

Basically, all an integral level tells you is whether or not your rifle’s rail is level, which really doesn’t matter (within reason). If it works out that a comfortable grip for you tends to cant the rifle a degree or two to one side or the other, that is how you should shoulder your rifle. Don’t try to force yourself to correct for what is natural, your body will fight you on it, and your accuracy will suffer.

What you do need level, is your scope’s reticle. Hold your rifle the way you hold your rifle, then level your scope’s reticle to gravity from there. The two things don’t need to match perfectly, and probably won’t.

I see what you're saying. However, I normally level my scope to my rail using feeler gauges of some sort just cause it makes sense to me and I've always done it that way (If I got a Spuhr I'd use their leveling wedge). With my scopes being leveled to my base, I'd think that the reticle and base level should match up... It could be that I shoot a little canted and then I guess I'd have an issue like you mention.

 

[McReef]

I see what you're saying. However, I normally level my scope to my rail using feeler gauges of some sort just cause it makes sense to me and I've always done it that way (If I got a Spuhr I'd use their leveling wedge). With my scopes being leveled to my base, I'd think that the reticle and base level should match up... It could be that I shoot a little canted and then I guess I'd have an issue like you mention.

I just learned this yesterday, literally. So I mean it when I say I am a moron, do not listen to me. I was leveling my scope to my rifle as well, because it made sense, and everything I read before told me to do it. Plus, that is just who I am. I took a frigging eternity using precision machine levels to get everything perfect, only to find out later I was apparently wasting my time.

I have a Sphur on my rifle, and I was using care to ensure I was level when shooting. Inevitably however, I’d look down after a few rounds and find myself canted a hair. I would correct, start over, and what do you know? I’m canted again after a few rounds. Rinse and repeat. Same direction, same amount, every time. By adjusting back to level each time, I was taking myself out of my natural shooting position. More specifically, I was forcing my rifle out of its natural alignment with my body. When I shot, my rifle would shift a little each time towards where it wanted to be, f’ing with my POI (presumably).

The level on the Sphur was actually really helpful in the end. Without it, I may never have known what I was doing. It wasn’t moving much, but it doesn’t take much.

Again, I am no one, and I know nothing. I’d say do exactly what you were planning on doing, and if you stay naturally level, bonus. If not, you at least will have and indicator to show you there is a problem you would not have otherwise have noticed in all likelihood.

 

[EastCOYotes]

I just learned this yesterday, literally. So I mean it when I say I am a moron, do not listen to me. I was leveling my scope to my rifle as well, because it made sense, and everything I read before told me to do it. Plus, that is just who I am. I took a frigging eternity using precision machine levels to get everything perfect, only to find out later I was apparently wasting my time.

I have a Sphur on my rifle, and I was using care to ensure I was level when shooting. Inevitably however, I’d look down after a few rounds and find myself canted a hair. I would correct, start over, and what do you know? I’m canted again after a few rounds. Rinse and repeat. Same direction, same amount, every time. By adjusting back to level each time, I was taking myself out of my natural shooting position. More specifically, I was forcing my rifle out of its natural alignment with my body. When I shot, my rifle would shift a little each time towards where it wanted to be, f’ing with my POI (presumably).

The level on the Sphur was actually really helpful in the end. Without it, I may never have known what I was doing. It wasn’t moving much, but it doesn’t take much.

Again, I am no one, and I know nothing. I’d say do exactly what you were planning on doing, and if you stay naturally level, bonus. If not, you at least will have and indicator to show you there is a problem you would not have otherwise have noticed in all likelihood.

I'll definitely start paying more attention to this and see if I drift toward a certain position. Did you end up having to place your scope in your Spuhr rings at a slight cant to accommodate your natural position?

 

[DannC]

I use a scope mounted level. You cannot see the level on the mount without breaking your position.

 

[McReef]

I'll definitely start paying more attention to this and see if I drift toward a certain position. Did you end up having to place your scope in your Spuhr rings at a slight cant to accommodate your natural position?

I haven’t moved it yet. I brought it to the range after reading this stuff and watching the videos in the online training section (pretty good stuff). I only shot at 100 yards, so an out of level reticle doesn’t really mean much as I was shooting with zeroed turrets.

I did notice after several repetitions of firing a couple shots, stepping away, coming back and firing a few, etc... that my bubble did seem very consistent. I’m off about 1/2 - 2/3 of a bubble or so.

I then did this all over again without attempting to correct. I just held it where it wanted to be, took my time, and shot another few sets.

My grouping was definitely improved. I can’t say for certain that this is a direct result of the “level issue” or not. I am still learning and adjusting, so every time I go to the range it seems like I am working on improving/correcting 3 different things, so who knows. I can say it certainly didn’t hurt.

I will be bringing a plumb line and torque wrench to the range to make the move tomorrow.

 

[Rekkr870]

Level rifle out with the scope loose in the rings.

Level the reticle with a plumb line down range while the rifle is level.

When your rifle is level, your scope is level with the fall of gravity.

Shoot.

 

[slayer 2c]

I haven’t moved it yet. I brought it to the range after reading this stuff and watching the videos in the online training section (pretty good stuff). I only shot at 100 yards, so an out of level reticle doesn’t really mean much as I was shooting with zeroed turrets.

I did notice after several repetitions of firing a couple shots, stepping away, coming back and firing a few, etc... that my bubble did seem very consistent. I’m off about 1/2 - 2/3 of a bubble or so.

I then did this all over again without attempting to correct. I just held it where it wanted to be, took my time, and shot another few sets.

My grouping was definitely improved. I can’t say for certain that this is a direct result of the “level issue” or not. I am still learning and adjusting, so every time I go to the range it seems like I am working on improving/correcting 3 different things, so who knows. I can say it certainly didn’t hurt.

I will be bringing a plumb line and torque wrench to the range to make the move tomorrow.

What type of Chassis/stock do you have? Is it an adjustable one? Out to distance a natural cant is going to effect your accuracy. if you have the ability to adjust the butt stock to fit your body it will fix the cant of the rifle during firing. I have an adjustable and just went through the online training (fitting the rifle to the shooter lesson) and redid my entire set up. The rifle no longer comes off level during my strings unless I change position.


To answer the OP, get a Spur you can't get a better mount, and you wont regret it!!!