Seeking Feedback On Rifle Design

[jmar]

Hello everyone, first post. I am a beginner shooter from MT. Bolt action rifles have always appealed to me far more than any others. I think my love for them stemmed from my BB gun I had as a kid, it had a cheap drinking straw scope on it but I could literally shoot bugs with it. I'm on other forums but have lurked here for a while, just finally being able to afford this hobby and with only a few times out practicing i'm already infatuated. Good as time as any to make an account here.

Anyways, I have always been a artsy type of person, as I grew older that developed into design. I have been sketching out guns for a few years now, this is the one I'd like to show you today. It's not really revolutionary in anyway, or designed to be incredibly accurate or long range. Many of you probably will hate it and think it's ugly. But hey I just think it's a design that's missing in our little world. An affordable, completely customizable, rugged precision rifle. Some may say the Remington 700 is that, and it is. But the Remington 700 is a decades old design and when compared to modern precision rifles just being built, styles are changing to guns that look like a typical hunting rifle, to more integrated chassis designs.

So i'm just looking for some feedback from you guys, you are no doubt probably the most experienced people in this category of weapons. Any help is appreciated. If enough people like it I will build a prototype for review and to show to investors to hopefully produce them one day.Thanks

 

[diverdon]

As art, I think it is kinda cool, a little weird, but kinda cool. As a practical project that you wanted to actually build many important details are missing from the art (that is not to say that they are missing from your head.) Of course it would have to be built so that it was true and square. Two lug or three lug. What kind of extractor and ejector. It looks like the folding stock might hit the bolt.

 

[Guy Montag]

jmar, by your own admission it's neither aesthetically appealing, revolutionary in design, or built with accuracy as it's prime consideration. Those are some serious drawbacks in a marketplace that already has several more refined designs out there already.

 

[spife7980]

It looks to me like you are going after the ruger design, bolt in an ar style set up. But you show ar mags that severely limit the overall length and ability of a precision rifle and does the opposite of "giving it more ammunition options"

If youre trying to do this as close to an ar as it appears to be why would you not just make it an ar?

 

[Massoud]

As a designer in the firearms industry, I encourage you to keep working at it. One thing I tell people when they ask how I got into this field is that I was extremely interested in rifles from a young age and I learned and read everything I could about the field (and still do). In fact the "Research" in Kinetic Research Group comes from all of that studying we've done. From this base of knowledge of what's available, the shortcomings of different rifles, the strengths of those rifles, etc., then designs will ensue from there.

You are thinking generally in the right direction, as rifles are going more modular and more AR styled. However what you have in principle is something that is basically already available, that being an AR without the gas system. Try really diving into the shooting world and getting beyond the "beginner shooter" stage and learning how to use a rifle, what types of rifles are used in each different situation, how to reload and the benefits of it, internal and external ballistics, etc and in a few years you'll really have something. Maybe you'll be the person that pushes us to design the next best thing to beat your next best thing. Good luck,
Justin

 

[jmar]

As art, I think it is kinda cool, a little weird, but kinda cool. As a practical project that you wanted to actually build many important details are missing from the art (that is not to say that they are missing from your head.) Of course it would have to be built so that it was true and square. Two lug or three lug. What kind of extractor and ejector. It looks like the folding stock might hit the bolt.

Thanks for the comment, not sure on the specifics of the bolt, maybe a 4 lug. Also ideally I wanted the stock to fold the other direction, just didn't render it right.

jmar, by your own admission it's neither aesthetically appealing, revolutionary in design, or built with accuracy as it's prime consideration. Those are some serious drawbacks in a marketplace that already has several more refined designs out there already.

This is aimed at what I think is a void in the market, a modular very customizable rifle. The only other I can think of is the RPR which won't be as customizable as my design. I want it to be able to be caliber swapped in the field which I can't think of any others that have that ability for a low price. And while 1/4 MOA accuracy isn't its design philosophy I still would have a strict sub MOA policy and ideally more around 1/2 MOA. This may be achievable with the integral chassis not many other rifles have.

It looks to me like you are going after the ruger design, bolt in an ar style set up. But you show ar mags that severely limit the overall length and ability of a precision rifle and does the opposite of "giving it more ammunition options"

If youre trying to do this as close to an ar as it appears to be why would you not just make it an ar?

Why not make an AR? Bolt action over semi auto. There's really no competition. The gun I am going for is ultra modular "caliber swappable", something that simply can't be done reliably on a semi auto. Plus a bolt gun is more accurate inherently and makes less noise when canned. Don't worry about mag size, the gun will come in a long and short action and suit calibers up to .338. See pictures for example of a long action conceptual design. I think i will retract my statement of AR and AI mag use, i will undoubtedly need custom mags.

As a designer in the firearms industry, I encourage you to keep working at it. One thing I tell people when they ask how I got into this field is that I was extremely interested in rifles from a young age and I learned and read everything I could about the field (and still do). In fact the "Research" in Kinetic Research Group comes from all of that studying we've done. From this base of knowledge of what's available, the shortcomings of different rifles, the strengths of those rifles, etc., then designs will ensue from there.

You are thinking generally in the right direction, as rifles are going more modular and more AR styled. However what you have in principle is something that is basically already available, that being an AR without the gas system. Try really diving into the shooting world and getting beyond the "beginner shooter" stage and learning how to use a rifle, what types of rifles are used in each different situation, how to reload and the benefits of it, internal and external ballistics, etc and in a few years you'll really have something. Maybe you'll be the person that pushes us to design the next best thing to beat your next best thing. Good luck,
Justin

Thanks for the advice, very inspiring. I'm sure you also have tons of knowledge considering you designed a gun that was actually made. Something i may never do. Once i get my design done and every mechanic just the way i want i really have no idea how to even make a prototype. This is a tough business for sure. I am a lot like you, I have loved guns from a young age, especially snipers rifles. I remember renting weapon books from the library and getting strange glances from my teachers and classmates when reading them. Part of what inspires me to design guns is that nothing on the market appeals to me, or I can't afford it so I want to build it myself and offer it to those who also can't afford it. A while back I just googled "bolt action AR-15" expecting to possibly purchase one. And to my astonishment there were none. Well there were some .50 cals, and some straight pulls. But no purpose built bolt action AR-15 designed from the ground up. There is also no quick change caliber rifle under $5,000 that i saw. Having a gun that can change calibers in 5 mins on a shooting bench with hand tools would give so much assurance to someone like me who's just starting out that they didn't make a poor choice on rifle selection.



Anyways here are some more conceptual designs on the intended modularity of this rifle. Minus the paint jobs, everything you see should be able to be installed in minutes with handtools including the barrel. So take a look at the base rifle, and compare it to the red integrally suppressed .300 blackout version. Also the bottom one is what a long action version may possibly look like. That particular one is chambered in 300 Win Mag.

 

[thejeep]

What if you could switch in semi auto lowers as well.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I can dig it. I like the concept of the RPR, probably more than I actually like the RPR. If yours polishes the idea and comes off less cheesy it's a win but wouldn't displace the RPR if priced similarly. If you can pull off a quick and reliable caliber change and not limit the mags to AR length you might really have something.

 

[jmar]

What if you could switch in semi auto lowers as well.

For the ruggedness and harmonics I wanted it to be a 1 piece machined receiver. But I bet just bolt action uppers would sell like crazy because they don't need a FFL. So I'm looking into it, they'd probably only come in a few calibers such as .223, .308 and maybe .300 blackout. That'd be something I'd do after I sell full guns though because I want to build my brand as a firearm manufacture not an accessory maker.

I can dig it. I like the concept of the RPR, probably more than I actually like the RPR. If yours polishes the idea and comes off less cheesy it's a win but wouldn't displace the RPR if priced similarly. If you can pull off a quick and reliable caliber change and not limit the mags to AR length you might really have something.

I like almost everything about the RPR except for the standard barrel change system and its cheesy hyper modern look. I want the main selling point of my rifle to be the quick barrel change system, not sure there's any gun below $4,500 with one. And the ones that do have those systems charge $1,500 for extra barrels... Thanks for the reply.

 

[...]

give me a mauser pattern bolt action upper that i can place on any AR15/ AR10 lower that feeds from mags and utilizes a Savage style barrel system and then youll have something.


the 1 piece idea is a waste of time.....the lower is already built and designed for you, which cuts on the work you need to due......and im more apt to buy a new upper than i am to buy a new rifle

also machining the upper and lower together is impossible....not to mention installing trigger components.......its going to have to be 2 pieces either way....either a seperate upper and lower like a standard AR15......or you can do a clam shell like the RPR

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Are you intending to price it similar to the RPR? I'm assuming you don't have the machinery to manufacture it in your basement, and even if you did, turning out the initially small batches of rifles would probably leave you with a high overhead. Without Rugers manufacturing capability you might never be able to get the price low enough to compete. Unless of course you are able to get an existing company to build it for you. You've probably already thought about this, I'm just thinking out loud. If your barrels used an AR type extension and had a floating bolt head you could take advantage of existing parts and simplify headspacing.

 

[jmar]

There's another reason to make my own receivers, the fact I want them to be chambered in magnum rounds like .300 Win Mag and .338. Keep in mind just because it looks like an AR, it won't be internally like an AR. A precision rifle needs more fine tuning them a semi auto. Hard task with a pin system lower and upper. If I pursue this uppers would likely happen just later on. Sales really don't bother me unless I have to buy the equipment, if I pay someone to use theres I won't have any bills to pay on expensive machinery and could just work on a rifle I'm happy with.

Simply i want to make a great rifle, not a kit gun that may or may not have good performance depending on what system the uppers plopped on. Just a low price Sub MOA customizable precision rifle with caliber swaps as a main design philosophy. Something to my knowledge not available on the market.

Not sure what kind of price it'd go for. Probably more than the RPR slightly. But it'll come with more than a RPR such as a heavy fluted barrel with a quick detach etc. Maybe around $1700 depending on chambering and barrel length.