I am confused. I have a hi-cap Wilson for sale in the classified ads. I have had two buyers from California offer to buy the gun. The most recent offer indicated I wouldn't need a copy of the receiving FFL because they accept from individuals. Seems odd. Anyhow, there are currently 10 states with some form of mag restrictions. What should I do? Would it be reasonable to just refuse to sell to those 10 states?
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Selling Hi-Cap Handguns to states with Hi-Cap magazine restrictions.
- Thread starter Ankeny
- Start date
I am not an FFL, but this may be as easy as looking into what is called California Legal Pistols and yours may not fly.
Last I knew, any sale going in is FFL to FFL, and your shipping FFL needs to fill out a form to do so. I won't call it registering, PIA but minor one.
Last I knew, any sale going in is FFL to FFL, and your shipping FFL needs to fill out a form to do so. I won't call it registering, PIA but minor one.
Sounds like a trap.
Always follow federal and state laws on transfers.
If it sounds suspect, it probably is. Feds love to entrap.
Always follow federal and state laws on transfers.
If it sounds suspect, it probably is. Feds love to entrap.
I would not ship a pistol to CA as an individual, bad move fuck what the buyer says.
Contact the receiving FFL and ask them, I believe that if they have a hi capacity magazine permit they can accept the
magazines and only transfer them to an exempt party.
Worst case your FFL ships only the pistol.
Large capacity magazines may be manufactured for any federal, state, or local government or law enforcement agency, the military, or for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties, whether on or off duty.11 Large capacity magazines may also be purchased or loaned for the sole use as a motion picture, television or video prop.12 Such magazines may also be resold to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations
Contact the receiving FFL and ask them, I believe that if they have a hi capacity magazine permit they can accept the
magazines and only transfer them to an exempt party.
Worst case your FFL ships only the pistol.
Large capacity magazines may be manufactured for any federal, state, or local government or law enforcement agency, the military, or for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties, whether on or off duty.11 Large capacity magazines may also be purchased or loaned for the sole use as a motion picture, television or video prop.12 Such magazines may also be resold to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations
I would not. As already established, go FFL to FFL only. Anyone who tells you that you don’t need the receiving FFL information is extremely suspect imo.
I would ask the buyer which federal agency he works for.
Also, no.
Also, no.
First of all the mag ban does not extend to the firearm itself. User can use a reduced capacity mag in a full sized pistol.
Second, CA has a handgun roster, it the pistol is not on the roster you cannot import it unless you move to CA first.
I would contact their FFL, we will agree with the above statements, but he may accept firearms from individuals.
Third, this may all become moot as these commie state bans are about to be declared unlawful.
Second, CA has a handgun roster, it the pistol is not on the roster you cannot import it unless you move to CA first.
I would contact their FFL, we will agree with the above statements, but he may accept firearms from individuals.
Third, this may all become moot as these commie state bans are about to be declared unlawful.
Another reason to go FFL to FFL... Unless the buyer is LE and can use their LE exemption, if that Wilson model isn't on the CA handgun safety roster the buyer isn't going to be able to DROS it once it arrives. (Receiving FFL used to be able to temporarily convert off roster semi auto pistols to long barrel single shot for the dros and 10 day waiting period to get around the CA safety roster, but you can't do that anymore.)
If the receiving FFL has a hi cap mag permit (most do, but verify) then you can have your FFL ship everything to the CA FFL. If the buyer can't DROS it because it's not on the roster and they don't have an LE exemption and you specifically asked them about it before shipping, I wouldn't refund them... I would tell them the transaction between you and them is concluded and now it's their responsibility to let their local FFL resell it for them in their LE only display case (most dealers here have those.)
If the receiving FFL has a hi cap mag permit (most do, but verify) then you can have your FFL ship everything to the CA FFL. If the buyer can't DROS it because it's not on the roster and they don't have an LE exemption and you specifically asked them about it before shipping, I wouldn't refund them... I would tell them the transaction between you and them is concluded and now it's their responsibility to let their local FFL resell it for them in their LE only display case (most dealers here have those.)
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What is a "high capacity" magazine? I don't remember reading about them in the 2A.
That's an easy question. Fuck California. Don't sell to anybody unless they live in a free state.
Or, take them to the next gun show, and sell them to a local individual for cash.
Oh, and that "most recent offer" sounds like a trap, but I'm not a FFL, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
JMO
Or, take them to the next gun show, and sell them to a local individual for cash.
Oh, and that "most recent offer" sounds like a trap, but I'm not a FFL, and I did not sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
JMO
There is legal precedent that enables feds to entrap you. I’ve listened to and read stories of CA cops staking out Nevada and Arizona sporting goods stores to flag CA plates to be stopped and searched for mags at the state border. I truely feel for those that can’t leave that god forsaken shithole of a state, and I know many that just don’t comply, but putting yourself on record for illegal firearm transfer only makes you a target for a bootlicking cop. Do yourself a favor and avoid selling to CA. There is always a work-around.
The handgun roster would be my biggest fear. If it's not on this list don't sell to CA.
oag.ca.gov
Handguns Certified for Sale
oag.ca.gov
30rd mags are illegal in CO, however stores sell mag "rebuild" kits that are 30rd mags disassembled.
Doc
Doc
1. you must go FFL to FFL.
2. you can NOT sell or transfer an off roster handgun (unless its direct relative son/ father) In case you dont know what off roster means California has an approved list of handguns legal to buy and sell in the state. the receiving FFL will verify and deny the transfer.
www.oag.ca.gov
2. you can NOT sell or transfer an off roster handgun (unless its direct relative son/ father) In case you dont know what off roster means California has an approved list of handguns legal to buy and sell in the state. the receiving FFL will verify and deny the transfer.
Handguns Certified for Sale
Mag capacity restrictions/approved handgun roster restrictions are not legally your problem. They are the buyer's problem.
If I am mailing/shipping a firearm to an FFL, I will not do so without verifying who they are. Period, end of story.
1. you must go FFL to FFL.
2. you can NOT sell or transfer an off roster handgun (unless its direct relative son/ father) In case you dont know what off roster means California has an approved list of handguns legal to buy and sell in the state. the receiving FFL will verify and deny the transfer.
Handguns Certified for Sale
Number 1 is not binding on the seller. If the receiving FFL wants or needs to receive the gun from another FFL, buyer fronts the cost for the seller.
Number 2 is not binding on the seller. It's the buyer's responsibility to make sure that requirement is met. As long as I get my money and the receiving FFL accepts it, my job as a seller in a different state is done.
Sellers outside CA aren't bound by CA law.
yeah, maybe so but its a huge headache. selling someone something that you cant actually ship to them. you might get to your LGS and they refuse to recive it. then what? somone paid you for something you cant actually deliver.
belive me I've gone through this several times before.
There are still a few that will (last rifle I bought from here about 2 years ago was shipped as an individual, but the receiving FFL is a good friend.) Most dealers here don't like to do it because there's extra paperwork for them to do when it arrives from an individual.
Unfortunately sending FFL to FFL requires that the shipping FFL sign up on the CA DOJ's website and submit a CFLC on the website prior to shipping. It's free and easy and only takes a minute but it's still an extra step and a pain in the ass for the shipping dealer.
The powers that be in this state certainly like to make the process as irritating as possible...
I work in this business and let me say to you quite clearly
DO NOT SELL ANYTHING TO CA. ITS NOT WORTH THE HASSLE AND RISK.
As far as the mags go... you're transferring it to an FFL, who should legally be allowed to posses the "standard cap" mags. After that, it's between the FFL and the end user.
The FFL may be pinning them to 10 rounds for the "buyer".
The FFL may be selling them online out of state for the buyer.
The buyer may be LEO exempt.
Either way, not your problem as long as you work it out before hand that you're not refunding the money if the FFL refuses the transfer because of the mags.
As someone who's missed out on tons of sales because the seller is too damn lazy to read, or too damn stupid and invents problems that don't exist, I'll say "please don't be that guy". Ban state folks don't just get fucked by our state government, but also by people who are supposedly on our side as well. We run into it all the time... "no sales to...". Asshole, you're not spiting NJ, NY, CT, MD, IL etc. etc and their "oppression". You're doing exactly what they want, you're a fucking accomplice.
The FFL may be pinning them to 10 rounds for the "buyer".
The FFL may be selling them online out of state for the buyer.
The buyer may be LEO exempt.
Either way, not your problem as long as you work it out before hand that you're not refunding the money if the FFL refuses the transfer because of the mags.
As someone who's missed out on tons of sales because the seller is too damn lazy to read, or too damn stupid and invents problems that don't exist, I'll say "please don't be that guy". Ban state folks don't just get fucked by our state government, but also by people who are supposedly on our side as well. We run into it all the time... "no sales to...". Asshole, you're not spiting NJ, NY, CT, MD, IL etc. etc and their "oppression". You're doing exactly what they want, you're a fucking accomplice.
My M-1911 Switch and Signal uses a "standard" capacity magazine.
M 92F Beretta also uses a "standard" capacity magazine.
I do have a couple different "high" capacity magazines for my 10-22 Ruger.
My M-1928 A1 Deluxe Auto-Ordnance uses three different sizes of "standard" capacity magazines.
A. If it wasn't so complicated, it would be stupid.
B. If it wasn't so stupid, it would be complicated.
Choose one.
I always wanted one of them when Union Switch and Signal was around. I work in the rail industry and use to see them once a year. Now they are Hitachi Rail STS.
When was the last time you and your buddies got together and paid all the legal fees when your local state governments decided to try to put the boots to someone for selling something into one of your unfree states?
Oh right you'll all just cluck your heads and say... oh too bad, I hope it works out for them.
There is a reason intelligent people avoid possible trouble, it's simply not worth:
1. the hassle
2. the worry
3. any potential consequences
Just like at our company we don't ship to anywhere more likely for us to have fraud problems or other hassles from.
Sorry but tough, not worth it.
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