Sequence for loading with an expander mandrel fls/neck size?

[Jminer99er]

(I have been using Redding FLS standard die/seater for 260, 7mm, and 300 for hunting. Im going to start for reloading for a 270win and need dies’) I have questions. I typically FLS with the expander ball.

1- Full length size without the expander, then run the mandrel through approximately .002 smaller then bullet diameter and that sets the tension? Trim to length, and then load bullet to desired length.

I haven’t done any bushing die reloading… So am trying understanding the process and pick a brand of new dies. (Forester or Redding with the competition mic) or ditch the bushing die idea and stick with a fls die.

2- Does the Redding FL type S bushing die, bump the shoulder and sizes the case? (I know it sets the neck tension)

I have been reading on here (SH) guys are using the bushing dies and using a mandrel, Im confused on why?
After firing a round the case mouth is larger, so a bushing die is used to size the neck and set the neck tension? (i.e .002 smaller then the bullet diameter) Why would one use a mandrel after neck sizing?

3- When does one worry about a VLD seater plug? Im trying to load this 270 for California’s 2019 mandate on lead free. Im going to try nosler etip, barnes ttsx, and hornadys gmx. I just came across a badlands bulldozer bullet as well. I know you have to specify vld seater for reddings comp seater die. Im not sure if foresters ultra mic does both.

I have read through the stickys and its great technical information, very informative! (my eyes burn)

Thanks

 

[Supersubes]

All the type S die does is give you control of the neck sizing via the bushing, and the FL variety is the standard full length sizer.

Expander balls are designed to properly size the ID of the neck, regardless of the neck wall thickness (since neck wall thickness varies across lots and brands). They also iron out irregularities, and push them to the outside. They can have the bad side effect of pulling the necks off center, which kills loaded round concentricity. Some dies tackle this better than others.

A mandrel, by design, is just a better mousetrap to do the same thing as the ball. It also adds a step of course.

If you had neck turned brass or brass that was just very consistent in neck wall thickness, you could simply use the appropriate bushing with no expander ball/mandrel at all.


There are several companies that make bushing dies, and almost all of them use the same .5” bushing as the Redding. L.E. Wilson also makes the bushings, which I personally prefer over the Redding.

 

[canezach]

As Supersubes said, using a bushing die reduces the neck to the size of the bushing, so your interior diameter SHOULD be whatever diameter our bushing sets, but since not all brass neck thickness is uniform, unless you've neck turned your brass, your case neck thickness will vary. By squeezing the neck with the bushing, your outside diameter is set, but any imperfections are now forced into the contact surface with the bullet. I use a mandrel to force any imperfections to the outside of the neck. That may be unnecessary, but that's what I do, since I don't turn my necks. I use Redding Type S full length dies and keep various bushings on hand for my different brass.

I use a VLD stem on my dies, but that's because a majority of my bullets are for precision use, not hunting. I've loaded hunting rounds with the standard stem and VLD stem and seen no appreciable difference between the two. I'd recommend ordering the VLD stem and have it perform double duty.

 

[Jminer99er]

All the type S die does is give you control of the neck sizing via the bushing, and the FL variety is the standard full length sizer.

On the type s fl bushing die it has an expander ball in that die, so it full length sizes the case with the ability to control the neck tension precisely?

In what sequence, when using type s fl bushing die, do you use a mandrel?

By squeezing the neck with the bushing, your outside diameter is set, but any imperfections are now forced into the contact surface with the bullet. I use a mandrel to force any imperfections to the outside of the neck.

So here im guessing you run the case into the bushing to squeeze down the mouth to your bushing diameter, then run the mandrel in another step? i.e instead of a bushing that's puts you at .002 neck tension, you get a bushing that's .003 and then use a mandrel to give you .002?

This is the the step im not totally understanding with mouth of a fired case opened and then using a bushing to squeeze it to your specified diameter?

confused yet? welcome to my world

 

[canezach]

Correct. I will size my neck down to 0.003" and raise it to 0.002". I also have an annealer, so I don't really worry about work hardening my necks

And to answer your question about sequence, full length size with your bushing, then swap oout the sizing die with the mandrel die and the correct mandrel, then run the brass through the mandrel to set your neck tension

 

[rookie7]

I am not new to reloading, but have only started the mandrel use in the past 12 months. I'm still learning.

Here's what I did:

1. Buy the Sinclair expander die from Brownells
2. Buy their neck turning mandrel - stainless or carbide - I bought stainless = $9 but now wish I had bought the carbide = $50

Here is what I do - right or wrong.

1. Decap with Lee universal
2. Spray with lube
3. Full length size with my regular FL sizing die - RCBS, Lee, nothing special - I have completely removed the decapping rod
4. Then I run the brass into the expander die with mandrel - .002 -
5. Tumble
6. Trim, chamfer, etc.

I do anneal between steps 1 and 2.

The Lee neck collet die does the same thing with the exception that it squeezes the neck around a mandrel. It comes with one that has .001 tension but you can buy a .002 mandrel from them.

I use the the Sinclair and the Lee.

Lee reloading products has some good ideas and concepts, but the only negative is that most of their products seem to be made from cheap pot metal.

 

[300ATT]

If I'm feeling really anal and feel the need for uniform neck tension w/minimal runout I do a two-step resize on a bonanza co-ax:

1.) FL w/o expander ball
2.) Lee Collet die

See the following


If I don't feel I need to FL resize then just run the brass though the Lee. I believe that there are other manufacturers of these collet type neck sizing dies - don't remember off hand.

Using Wilson dies and an arbor press also works if you don't have to aggressively FL resize the the brass.

 

[300ATT]

Some more tips when using the lee collet dies:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/01/tips-for-using-lee-collet-dies/

 

[FishDr]

I use same process as 300ATT and have good and consistent results.

 

[Jminer99er]

Copy that, thanks guys! It now makes sense, it just adds a step in both fls and bushing dies. I ordered forster fl benchrest die and the ulta mic seating die. (try forster out)

I might look into the collet die for my 260. Thanks for the hyperlink!

Big thanks to all who took the time to reply!