Serious M1A question

[Wreckinshop]

Ok, im at the point where I have decided my next rifle I want to embark on is an M1A. I plan on doing a lot to it like a new EBR stock, good optics, etc etc. Ok so here's my question. There are a bunch of different models from the factory such as the standard, loaded, national, super match or whatever its called and so on and so forth. As far as the action and barrel goes for accuracy. does any of this really matter which model i get, assuming i want to be able to hit out to 800 yards? What would be a good model to start out with that i could reasonably expect to achieve what im looking to do?

I wanted to hear it from M1A people here instead of reading it on the springfield website. A lot of times those manufacturer's talk up their products. I have a SA TRP Operator with a AWC can on it so im not knocking SA. I love their stuff i just want some expert advice before i jump off in it and realize i didnt do it right from the start. Thanks in advance

 

[aquinas]

Re: Serious M1A question

Why do you want one?

I own several. One puts 5 bullets in a 5 inch circle at 600 yards with a j allen stock.

Still, I think the AR is a better platform. What do you want to do with it?

Based on your question, you don't know squat about M14's.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Serious M1A question

m14forum.com, lots of M14 variant owners there, myself included.

 

[Wreckinshop]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">m14forum.com, lots of M14 variant owners there, myself included. </div></div>


Thank you! To the other "expert" of course i dont know much about civilian m14's thats why i asked the question!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Serious M1A question

I had good results with the Loaded stainless barrel model. It came into its own once it was properly bedded.

Remarks about the AR being better are probably based on bedding issues. The wooden stock can have problems regarding the bedding's stability, and can require rebedding from time to time to deal with wood's tendency to warp and swell according to weather.

A synthetic stock, like the ones from McMillan, can resolve this issue, since they are a lot more dimensionally stable when the weather changes around on you.

Scope mounting on an M1A involves issues that aren't issues with a flat top AR.

My Loaded M1A was a reliable 1MOA shooter, with or without a scope; depends of your iron sights skills.

Nowadays, my M1A is gone, and I no longer shoot .308. My service semi is a Garand, and my short action bolt gun is a .260.

Greg

 

[The Lawn Ranger]

Re: Serious M1A question

For accuracy the NM and SM are GTG from Springfield. If you have the coin, you may want to look at custom M14's (M1A is proprietary to Springfield). Two good choices are Smith Enterprises (SEI) and LRB in Long Island. As with most, bedding, barrel, and trigger do the most to effect accuracy in these rifles.

 

[Prairie Dog Dundee]

Re: Serious M1A question

My M1A NM is good to 800 yards with the right loads on steel. A target or precision rifle it is not. Fun and dependable it is.
500 yards 5 shots
[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Serious M1A question

If you really want to scope it, you may want to have one built on an LRB M25 receiver. It has an integral rail so there's not the fight of getting a scope mount on it. I'm running one with an 18.5" medium weight barrel and it's good to go out to 800+ yards. As previously mentioned, it's not a target or precision rifle, but it was doing 1.5" groups at 100 yards using surplus ammo and easily hitting steel plates at 600 yards. I'm making some changes to it now, one of which is replacing my JAE stock with a Sage stock and the other is replacing my 1.8-10X44 USO with 1.8-10X37 USO. Hopefully I'll have the new scope soon...

 

[Wreckinshop]

Re: Serious M1A question

Awesome information, that gives me a lot to go on and now i can start. I have read the issue about the scope mounting problem so I will want to make sure i address that properly. And as far as the bedding issue I have read that the ebr chassis stock fairly well corrects the bedding problem. Is that info accurate?

 

[bricktop]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wreckinshop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Awesome information, that gives me a lot to go on and now i can start. I have read the issue about the scope mounting problem so I will want to make sure i address that properly. And as far as the bedding issue I have read that the ebr chassis stock fairly well corrects the bedding problem. Is that info accurate? </div></div>

Correct. Just like the JAE stock, there is no bedding with the Sage stocks. The op-rod block (for the Sage), and barrel tensioner (for the JAE) also allow for as good as (and possibly better) performance compared to regular synthetic stocks.

 

[aquinas]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wreckinshop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">m14forum.com, lots of M14 variant owners there, myself included. </div></div>


Thank you! To the other "expert" of course i dont know much about civilian m14's thats why i asked the question! </div></div>

Wreckinshop: don't get yer undies in a bunch, I'm trying to help you out. Been shooting 14's for years and wondering if you just have a hardon for one (that's oK) and maybe if something else would suit your needs better.

For 2000 you can get a DPMS SASS which, imho, is a better rifle for several reasons. You can rebarrel it yourself with a 200 buck DPMS barrel and still drive tacks. You'll need a Krieger or similar to do that with the 14 and, it's not something you'll want to do yourself.

A 14 that good will set you back 3 grand and a rebedding job every 1500 rounds or so.

No op-rod or gas system on an AR: big plus.

That said, I'm keeping my 14's. I love em. Something about outgunning a lot of guys with a gun born in 1957.

Try www.m14tfl.com it's a great website. The best for M14's

 

[adkmtnman]

Re: Serious M1A question

I'd LOVE to get one of the Sage EBR stocks... they are sweet. Anyone on the hide have one with pictures?

 

[Scouter19D]

Re: Serious M1A question

Its hard to beat an M1A National Match out the box. Great sights, great barrels, great firearm. Definitely spend the money, and go above the standard when you first purchase it. It gives you some better building blocks and take-off points for later.

Yes, you could get more gun, and more serviceable gun, for the money, but that's hardly the point. If you have a "so-called hard on" for it, thats great. You'll need it when the bills start rackin up. That said, it's a piece of Americana, and represents some great soldiers from our countries past. I'm sure you'll love the M14, regardless of what model you purchase.

 

[Wreckinshop]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: himaster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wreckinshop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">m14forum.com, lots of M14 variant owners there, myself included. </div></div>


Thank you! To the other "expert" of course i dont know much about civilian m14's thats why i asked the question! </div></div>

Wreckinshop: don't get yer undies in a bunch, I'm trying to help you out. Been shooting 14's for years and wondering if you just have a hardon for one (that's oK) and maybe if something else would suit your needs better.

For 2000 you can get a DPMS SASS which, imho, is a better rifle for several reasons. You can rebarrel it yourself with a 200 buck DPMS barrel and still drive tacks. You'll need a Krieger or similar to do that with the 14 and, it's not something you'll want to do yourself.

A 14 that good will set you back 3 grand and a rebedding job every 1500 rounds or so.

No op-rod or gas system on an AR: big plus.

That said, I'm keeping my 14's. I love em. Something about outgunning a lot of guys with a gun born in 1957.

Try www.m14tfl.com it's a great website. The best for M14's</div></div>


Ah ok, please accept my apology then. Boards are famous for someone jumping another person who doesnt know as much (why is that anyway?).

I love old style rifles. Yes I have several ar's and a 1911 from hell but my absolute favorite firearms are some of the old style stuff. My fav of all my rifles is a 1908 mauser originally chambered in 30-06. Its accurate (not a tack driver) and reliable as it gets. I know when i pick it up ill never have a problem with it. The old 1903 rifles, garands, etc all blow my skirt up, so to speak. I live in south Louisiana, so while having a thousand yard rifle is nice, its kinda a waste. Very very few places to get a shot off more than 600 yards around here. So in that respect the M1A plenty covers my needs and also satisfies my little M1A itch i have going lol. Again, im sorry for taking that wrong. Your last post Himaster enlightened me as to what all you meant once you elaborated. That is quite a lot to take into consideration. But, done right a person has a rifle to last a very long time.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adkmtnman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd LOVE to get one of the Sage EBR stocks... they are sweet. Anyone on the hide have one with pictures? </div></div>

My work in progress:

I've made some small changes since those pics. I'm hoping to have my USO and some ARC rings by the end of next month.

 

[BCP]

Re: Serious M1A question

Try to get your hands on one before you go blowing a bunch of money. Might not be what you are hoping.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Serious M1A question

I have a Super Match I've been shooting since 1977. Good rifle, I've shot some pretty good 1000 yard scores with it. It also go my Distinguished Badge.

Having said that, I question the ideap of laying out the bucks for a Super Match if you're gonna add a different stock and what ever else. I think if I was gonna go that route, I'd just buy a good barre, the action, bolt, and parts kit to go with what ever exotic stock and such you want.

Shame to pay the big bucks for a super match if you're gonna just toss most of it.

 

[Wreckinshop]

Re: Serious M1A question

yeah thats what im afraid of. We have all bought stuff before for a pretty penny only to realize later that most of our money went to the stuff on it that we took off and didnt want to use. How hard is it build one, buying all the parts? I have built several ar's but, i know that m14 is probably a lot more complicated

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: Serious M1A question

Must-read for anyone contemplating building an M-1A: http://www.amazon.com/M14-Complete-Assembly-Guide/dp/1888722169

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Serious M1A question

Check out LRB, can probably get a barreled action put together so you just have to add your Sage. Cost with the Sage would probably be as much as a SM plus you get it built how you want and don't waste.

 

[Metonymy]

Re: Serious M1A question

That's the route I went. Bought an LRB barreled action #3 and have a JAE stock on order. Buddy loaned me a standard walnut stock and I've been using it in the mean time.

I switched the USGI flash hider out for a Delta P adapter and an AAC muzzle brake. I had to re-sight the rifle as I had pulled the front sight completely off.

Here's a target of me sighting it back in. You can the pattern of walking up the shots as I adjusted the sights:

 

[aquinas]

Re: Serious M1A question

I think buying all the parts will cost you big bucks. A decent receiver goes for 750 plus if you want the best. You can sent the receiver to Kreiger and they'll barrel it for you with the bolt for around 600. A nice bolt is at leat 250 ditto a hammer forged op-rod. Sights add another 200. JAE stock is 600 for the basic model.

It's at 2650 right now and we haven't talked about little stuff like flash hider. All that adds up.

A good scope mount will run you $300. Toss a nice scope on it an you're looking between 4500 and 6000. But it would be one hell of a machine.

With my M1A stocked in a JAE stock, I've shot in prone with a sling a 1.25 inch group at 300 yards. At 600 last summer with same setup I posted a 5 inch group. A good 14 is an awsome beast. The only perfect score shot at Camp Perry was done in 1975 with a 14. That record still stands, I believe.

 

[adkmtnman]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoExpert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: adkmtnman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd LOVE to get one of the Sage EBR stocks... they are sweet. Anyone on the hide have one with pictures? </div></div>

My work in progress:

Thx Brother...... awesome machine you got there!


I've made some small changes since those pics. I'm hoping to have my USO and some ARC rings by the end of next month. </div></div>

 

[NoExpert]

Re: Serious M1A question

$2169 for a basic LRB M25 barreled action #3. You'd just need a trigger group, about $250. $699 for the Sage ALCS or ALCS/CV. You're under $3500. You can change the config too, you won't need a hand guard with the Sage and may want a different barrel.

The Criterion barrels they use are getting some really good reviews. If you're going to run a Sage don't bother with a heavy weight barrel, even medium weight barrels make them front heavy. My medium weight 18.5" Krieger will be getting replaced with a standard profile 18.5" Criterion when I shoot it out.

Right now you have lots of options, once you buy the options go down. Sit and think about what you really want out of the rifle. A medium or heavy barreled rifle with a scope in a JAE is a tank to carry, I know, I had one, 20+ pounds. Changing my stock and scope it should be around 15 pounds. The barrel change later will drop another 1+ pound. Take all of this into account, is this going to be a bench rifle or a field rifle?

 

[BCP]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wreckinshop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built several ar's</div></div>

Build a 308 AR then. Only additional tool you'll need will be a 308 armorer's block and maybe a spanner wrench for whatever handguards you pick out.

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

Re: Serious M1A question

Build both?

Both are very capable, and fun to shoot. Really can't go wrong with either one.

The M1a is a standard, and has no problem with steel at the range you are looking for.

 

[BCP]

Re: Serious M1A question

^
^
What he said.

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Serious M1A question

Do not buy a supermatch if you plan to put it in a sage ebr. The supermatch receivers have a rear recoil lug that the ebr will not accept.

 

[mewillis]

Re: Serious M1A question

if I were you just cry once and buy a Smith Enterprises.If I was going to buy another it would be their's. I have an "older" Springfield Armory NM, 1981 era. its nice, basic NM config. shoots 1.5-2" @100yds depending on what stock its in, better(3/4-1") with NM ammo. not bad for an unbedded rifle IMO. if you buy a SA don't go below NM or Super Match, its worth the extra $$. I think you can buy a good one for less than you can build one in the long run...... my 2cents

http://www.smithenterprise.com/products02.html

 

[merlinnnn]

Re: Serious M1A question

I have 2 M25 a 18 1/2 & 22 both fully built by LRB and a 22 built by Fulton Armory. Also a GAP AR10.. Yes the AR10 is a better shooter... But the M14's are very accurate and just in a league of their own. They are all in USGI fiberglass stocks and pretty easy to field. I would do it over again and have LRB build them, Paul did a great job.

Merlinn

 

[bricktop]

Re: Serious M1A question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: merlinn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have 2 M25 a 18 1/2 & 22 both fully built by LRB and a 22 built by Fulton Armory. Also a GAP AR10.. Yes the AR10 is a better shooter... But the M14's are very accurate and just in a league of their own. They are all in USGI fiberglass stocks and pretty easy to field. I would do it over again and have LRB build them, Paul did a great job.

Merlinn </div></div>

And LRB makes their own bolts now, a big plus without having to buy a crazy expensive TRW, etc bolt.

 

[kmcintosh78]

Re: Serious M1A question

I have a 22" standard. I get 1" MOA all day from 100 yards. Had it out to a 1000yards last month and was hitting where I wanted it to hit.

 

[jsnspck]

Re: Serious M1A question

I currently own 2 SA M14's, a Loaded and a Socom. I really didn't have a plan when I bought the Loaded model first, just thought I would buy something a little better than the base rifle. I have been changing parts on the Loaded upgrading every now and then to more performance. I admit that if I knew then what I know now, I would definitely just buy something from LRB or Smith Ent. already assembled and topnotch and be done with it. It will save you time and effort in the long run. The Socom is just plain fun. I have it in a McMillan folding stock and it is very compact for a 308. Plan on buying a 1-4 power scope for it. Good luck on your purchase.

 

[toddious]

Re: Serious M1A question

I have had two M1A's. One M1A 88 vintage supermatch, one 90 vintage all GI parts standard grade. The Winchester barrel on the GI gun was getting a little sloppy so a drove by Smith Enterprises in Tempe. The result was an EBR that shoots better than my Supermatch. Andy Horten, Ron Smith's chief armor took the time to find out what I wanted and then built it right. I would recommend that you spend a little more now with Smith Enterprise or even LRB. You will probably end up there in the end anyway.