I just put a shilen barrel with a 7mm-08 chamber on a thrued up Remington 700. Never used them before but Im pleasantly surprised at the results. Im not sure where I got the idea that they werent as good as Krieger or Broughton etc. Is there or was there some theory that they may not be as good as the other big names or did I just hit lucky with this one. Id be interested to know what you guys think as Im thinking about using them a lot more.
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Gunsmithing Shilen barrels are second to none
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Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
In the areas of firearms "fashion" equals popularity. Shilen is not as "Fashionable" as some of the newer stars in the barrel making world. But Shilen has been making barrels for many years, and 20-30 years ago they were among the "best" barrel to use.
Times change, and new "stars" emerge. Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, Broughton, and Rock Creek for example. And they are good makers, no lie.
But some of the old line companies like, Shilen, Hart and Douglas continue to make and deliver excellent barrels. It's just not "fashionable" to use them, because shooters in the winners circle are now using something else.
So it's no real surprise you got a good barrel from Shilen. They have been making good barrels for more than 50 years.
YMMV
In the areas of firearms "fashion" equals popularity. Shilen is not as "Fashionable" as some of the newer stars in the barrel making world. But Shilen has been making barrels for many years, and 20-30 years ago they were among the "best" barrel to use.
Times change, and new "stars" emerge. Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, Broughton, and Rock Creek for example. And they are good makers, no lie.
But some of the old line companies like, Shilen, Hart and Douglas continue to make and deliver excellent barrels. It's just not "fashionable" to use them, because shooters in the winners circle are now using something else.
So it's no real surprise you got a good barrel from Shilen. They have been making good barrels for more than 50 years.
YMMV
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.
I've had two Shilen Barrels and they were slightly soft for my liking. In short range BR circles, 6PPC rifles, they are highly thought of and win their fair share of matches. For me though, cut rifled is the only way to fly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.
I've had two Shilen Barrels and they were slightly soft for my liking. In short range BR circles, 6PPC rifles, they are highly thought of and win their fair share of matches. For me though, cut rifled is the only way to fly.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
i have worn out two shilens....they were excellent barrels, am currently running my third
i have worn out two shilens....they were excellent barrels, am currently running my third
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.
I've had two Shilen Barrels and they were slightly soft for my liking. In short range BR circles, 6PPC rifles, they are highly thought of and win their fair share of matches. For me though, cut rifled is the only way to fly. </div></div>
Historically, I've used Krieger and Broughton, but I'm building a customer rifle now with a Rock. Shilen? Not so much....I'd use a couple more before I devoted my loyalty exclusively to Shilen....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.
I've had two Shilen Barrels and they were slightly soft for my liking. In short range BR circles, 6PPC rifles, they are highly thought of and win their fair share of matches. For me though, cut rifled is the only way to fly. </div></div>
Historically, I've used Krieger and Broughton, but I'm building a customer rifle now with a Rock. Shilen? Not so much....I'd use a couple more before I devoted my loyalty exclusively to Shilen....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION.....
Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION.....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION..... THE REASON CERTAIN GUNSMITHS PUSH CERTAIN BARREL MAKERS IS BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED....
This is good business priciples. Not all gunsmiths have relationships with each barrel maker. They will say that the barrel maker they use is the best because X,Y,Z,. Well, for every gunsmith that says Shilen is soft,not good etc.... there are 5 x more that actually use them. and 20 times more poeple that want supreme accuracy, not just good enough to shoot moa.
NOW LET ME BE CLEAR..... I THINK ALL YOUR MAJOR BARREL MAKERS ARE AS GOOD AS THE OTHER.( SHILEN, KREIGER, BROUGHTON, HART, BRUX, BATRLIEN, WALTHER, ROCK, ETC...) EVEN MORE SO BECAUSE OF THE TACTICAL NEEDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE SHOOTING STEEL NOT ONE HOLE GROUPS.
Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION..... THE REASON CERTAIN GUNSMITHS PUSH CERTAIN BARREL MAKERS IS BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED....
This is good business priciples. Not all gunsmiths have relationships with each barrel maker. They will say that the barrel maker they use is the best because X,Y,Z,. Well, for every gunsmith that says Shilen is soft,not good etc.... there are 5 x more that actually use them. and 20 times more poeple that want supreme accuracy, not just good enough to shoot moa.
NOW LET ME BE CLEAR..... I THINK ALL YOUR MAJOR BARREL MAKERS ARE AS GOOD AS THE OTHER.( SHILEN, KREIGER, BROUGHTON, HART, BRUX, BATRLIEN, WALTHER, ROCK, ETC...) EVEN MORE SO BECAUSE OF THE TACTICAL NEEDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE SHOOTING STEEL NOT ONE HOLE GROUPS.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION..... THE REASON CERTAIN GUNSMITHS PUSH CERTAIN BARREL MAKERS IS BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED....
This is good business priciples. Not all gunsmiths have relationships with each barrel maker. They will say that the barrel maker they use is the best because X,Y,Z,. Well, for every gunsmith that says Shilen is soft,not good etc.... there are 5 x more that actually use them. and 20 times more poeple that want supreme accuracy, not just good enough to shoot moa.
NOW LET ME BE CLEAR..... I THINK ALL YOUR MAJOR BARREL MAKERS ARE AS GOOD AS THE OTHER.( SHILEN, KREIGER, BROUGHTON, HART, BRUX, BATRLIEN, WALTHER, ROCK, ETC...) EVEN MORE SO BECAUSE OF THE TACTICAL NEEDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE SHOOTING STEEL NOT ONE HOLE GROUPS. </div></div>
Interesting point of view. Most people like Shilen because they're available from Brownells and they can get them within two days. Shilen also manufactures/sells multiple grades of barrels, instead of just one very high quality barrel like everyone else. My experiences dictate the companies/manufacturers that I use and I develop relationships with manufacturers that promote quality components, not just business principles. If it works, I use it and I support the company that makes it. If it doesn't work, I don't use it. I answered the OP as the inquiry was posed....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well when it comes to accuracy shilen leads the pack. Just look at benchrest nationals most of the winners are using Shilen. Most gunsmiths do not like them because they do not finish the barrels well. So the gunsmith must do one more step to finish the outside.
The benchrest world does not speak in moa or mils they speak in .1 .2 .3 This is what accuracy is about.
I will say this and this is my OPINION..... THE REASON CERTAIN GUNSMITHS PUSH CERTAIN BARREL MAKERS IS BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED....
This is good business priciples. Not all gunsmiths have relationships with each barrel maker. They will say that the barrel maker they use is the best because X,Y,Z,. Well, for every gunsmith that says Shilen is soft,not good etc.... there are 5 x more that actually use them. and 20 times more poeple that want supreme accuracy, not just good enough to shoot moa.
NOW LET ME BE CLEAR..... I THINK ALL YOUR MAJOR BARREL MAKERS ARE AS GOOD AS THE OTHER.( SHILEN, KREIGER, BROUGHTON, HART, BRUX, BATRLIEN, WALTHER, ROCK, ETC...) EVEN MORE SO BECAUSE OF THE TACTICAL NEEDS, BECAUSE YOU ARE SHOOTING STEEL NOT ONE HOLE GROUPS. </div></div>
Interesting point of view. Most people like Shilen because they're available from Brownells and they can get them within two days. Shilen also manufactures/sells multiple grades of barrels, instead of just one very high quality barrel like everyone else. My experiences dictate the companies/manufacturers that I use and I develop relationships with manufacturers that promote quality components, not just business principles. If it works, I use it and I support the company that makes it. If it doesn't work, I don't use it. I answered the OP as the inquiry was posed....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
1) Even a very poor bull barrel can shoot excellent groups but you may* have to wait for it to cool down between shots and keep cleaning the Copper fouling out.
2) Barrels that were factory lapped and stress relieved are much less likely to do less warping when hot and/or fast Copper fouling.
The barrels in the second group are about the same.. so slow to Copper foul and free of accuracy loss when hot, I can't tell the difference between my Kriegers, Harts, my Liljas, or my Shilen select matches.
The difference is cost.
I can get Shilen select match stainless steel barrels cheaper.
What does it all mean?
1) Premium barrels are much more likely to be good shooters than cheap barrels.
2) Shilen Select match are [for me with the discounts I can get] the least expensive of the premium barrel.
*It is possible to find a cheap factory barrel that is slow to foul or warp. It does not happen all the time.
1) Even a very poor bull barrel can shoot excellent groups but you may* have to wait for it to cool down between shots and keep cleaning the Copper fouling out.
2) Barrels that were factory lapped and stress relieved are much less likely to do less warping when hot and/or fast Copper fouling.
The barrels in the second group are about the same.. so slow to Copper foul and free of accuracy loss when hot, I can't tell the difference between my Kriegers, Harts, my Liljas, or my Shilen select matches.
The difference is cost.
I can get Shilen select match stainless steel barrels cheaper.
What does it all mean?
1) Premium barrels are much more likely to be good shooters than cheap barrels.
2) Shilen Select match are [for me with the discounts I can get] the least expensive of the premium barrel.
*It is possible to find a cheap factory barrel that is slow to foul or warp. It does not happen all the time.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
fyi-Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. They are pulled button-rifled, Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels.
fyi-Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. They are pulled button-rifled, Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.</div></div>
Broughton does cut rifling in addition to their 5C Button. </div></div>
From their WWW, not trying to get in a pissing contest, just saying
"Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">They are pulled button-rifled, </span></span></span>Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels. Then each barrel is hand lapped with a uniform land and groove diameter up to 0.0001" from breech to muzzle. Our muzzle is NEVER larger than our breech."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.</div></div>
Broughton does cut rifling in addition to their 5C Button. </div></div>
From their WWW, not trying to get in a pissing contest, just saying
"Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">They are pulled button-rifled, </span></span></span>Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels. Then each barrel is hand lapped with a uniform land and groove diameter up to 0.0001" from breech to muzzle. Our muzzle is NEVER larger than our breech."
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.</div></div>
Broughton does cut rifling in addition to their 5C Button. </div></div>
From their WWW, not trying to get in a pissing contest, just saying
"Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">They are pulled button-rifled, </span></span></span>Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels. Then each barrel is hand lapped with a uniform land and groove diameter up to 0.0001" from breech to muzzle. Our muzzle is NEVER larger than our breech."
</div></div>
Understood, but according to Tim at Broughton they also do cut rifled barrels. Info not on their website....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Broughton</span></span>, and Rock Creek for example. </div></div>
Broughton is a Button Barrel.</div></div>
Broughton does cut rifling in addition to their 5C Button. </div></div>
From their WWW, not trying to get in a pissing contest, just saying
"Broughton Rifle Barrels are crafted from the finest material made today, 416R Stainless Steel. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">They are pulled button-rifled, </span></span></span>Double stressed relieved at the mill & triple stress relieved in our shop at Broughton Rifle Barrels. Then each barrel is hand lapped with a uniform land and groove diameter up to 0.0001" from breech to muzzle. Our muzzle is NEVER larger than our breech."
</div></div>
Understood, but according to Tim at Broughton they also do cut rifled barrels. Info not on their website....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Skunkworks wrote; "Shilen also manufactures/sells multiple grades of barrels, instead of just one very high quality barrel like everyone else." Then wrote" Understood, but according to Tim at Broughton they also do cut rifled barrels."
Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?
Skunkworks wrote; "Shilen also manufactures/sells multiple grades of barrels, instead of just one very high quality barrel like everyone else." Then wrote" Understood, but according to Tim at Broughton they also do cut rifled barrels."
Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it? </div></div>
SS Select Match Grade
SS Match Grade
These are the two grades that are spoken of. The quality grade of a barrel isnt the same as offering cut or button rifled barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it? </div></div>
SS Select Match Grade
SS Match Grade
These are the two grades that are spoken of. The quality grade of a barrel isnt the same as offering cut or button rifled barrels.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
i use what i can find a deal on. this has included SHILEN, HART, BROUGHTON, KRIEGER, ROCK, DOUGLAS and BENCHMARK. ANY of them are capable of making the best barrel you have ever had and ANY of them are capable of making a lemon. i choose to use BENCHMARK when buying from a manufacturer because of the way they treat me. as far as a cut rifled barrel being more accurate or lasting longer than a button rifles barrel, i have not found this to be substantial. if i had to choose, i would say my most accurate barrels have been button rifled, but i have also used more button rifled barrels so it stands to reason. pick what you like or what you can afford. you cant go any more RIGHT or WRONG with one over the other for our applications. you will notice that the shooting sports are extremely FAD driven. if tony boyer is winning with a bartlien, you will see a LOT of them. it doesnt mean they are better it just means they work.
chuck
i use what i can find a deal on. this has included SHILEN, HART, BROUGHTON, KRIEGER, ROCK, DOUGLAS and BENCHMARK. ANY of them are capable of making the best barrel you have ever had and ANY of them are capable of making a lemon. i choose to use BENCHMARK when buying from a manufacturer because of the way they treat me. as far as a cut rifled barrel being more accurate or lasting longer than a button rifles barrel, i have not found this to be substantial. if i had to choose, i would say my most accurate barrels have been button rifled, but i have also used more button rifled barrels so it stands to reason. pick what you like or what you can afford. you cant go any more RIGHT or WRONG with one over the other for our applications. you will notice that the shooting sports are extremely FAD driven. if tony boyer is winning with a bartlien, you will see a LOT of them. it doesnt mean they are better it just means they work.
chuck
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so?
ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so?
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other?
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
I understand and for the most part agree with your point of view. It is a little different as a manufacturer such as myself, Roscoe or anyone else on here that guarantees a certain level of consistency in our builds. Every single build I do has to start from the exact same baseline and follow the exact same set of standards and adopted machining tolerances in an effort to guarantee what I say I can guarantee. Of the barrels I've used, I've had the same consistent issues with one manufacturer. Therefore, I choose to no longer use that particular manufacturer. There are many barrels I haven't used because I've found what I can guarantee and I have no room for playing around with builds that a customer expects to fall within what I guarantee. I agree that there are a lot of good barrel makers out there, and fad may have a little something to do with many of the choices from an individual standpoint, but not from a manufacturers standpoint. I also get great lead-times and response from my chosen manufacturers along with their guarantee that what I get from them will be their absolute best, not differing levels of quality or grades from one barrel to the next....
I understand and for the most part agree with your point of view. It is a little different as a manufacturer such as myself, Roscoe or anyone else on here that guarantees a certain level of consistency in our builds. Every single build I do has to start from the exact same baseline and follow the exact same set of standards and adopted machining tolerances in an effort to guarantee what I say I can guarantee. Of the barrels I've used, I've had the same consistent issues with one manufacturer. Therefore, I choose to no longer use that particular manufacturer. There are many barrels I haven't used because I've found what I can guarantee and I have no room for playing around with builds that a customer expects to fall within what I guarantee. I agree that there are a lot of good barrel makers out there, and fad may have a little something to do with many of the choices from an individual standpoint, but not from a manufacturers standpoint. I also get great lead-times and response from my chosen manufacturers along with their guarantee that what I get from them will be their absolute best, not differing levels of quality or grades from one barrel to the next....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other? </div></div>
Just because someone prefers something does not make it better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other? </div></div>
Just because someone prefers something does not make it better.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other? </div></div>
Do you understand the difference in methodology between cut and button barrels and do you also understand that rifling method has nothing to do with grade or quality? I also never stated that I prefer one method of rifling over another. I was referring strictly to a preference of the highest quality/grade possible and not accepting anything other than one grade of barrel. So, comment two has nothing to do with comment one....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ARShuter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ARShuter wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">Comment 2 kinda shoots comment 1 in the ass don't it?</span>
How so? </div></div>
If Broughton offers cut rifling as well as button rifling and you prefer one over the other does this not make one a better grade than the other? </div></div>
Do you understand the difference in methodology between cut and button barrels and do you also understand that rifling method has nothing to do with grade or quality? I also never stated that I prefer one method of rifling over another. I was referring strictly to a preference of the highest quality/grade possible and not accepting anything other than one grade of barrel. So, comment two has nothing to do with comment one....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the areas of firearms "fashion" equals popularity. Shilen is not as "Fashionable" as some of the newer stars in the barrel making world. But Shilen has been making barrels for many years, and 20-30 years ago they were among the "best" barrel to use.
Times change, and new "stars" emerge. Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, Broughton, and Rock Creek for example. And they are good makers, no lie.
But some of the old line companies like, Shilen, Hart and Douglas continue to make and deliver excellent barrels. It's just not "fashionable" to use them, because shooters in the winners circle are now using something else.
So it's no real surprise you got a good barrel from Shilen. They have been making good barrels for more than 50 years.
YMMV </div></div>
+1, the shooting world is very much to go with whats new.
Here's what I think caused the change in perception. For years BR great, Tony Boyer, won using Shilen and then he changed to Bartlien. The whole shooting world stopped to have a look because Tony had always shot Shilen but now he stopped so they must not be any good.
Tony could out shoot most of us using any "cheap" barrel out there but he also is a good enough shot to tell the difference between two very high quality barrels. Most of us are probably not that good.
Those of us that know him also know that he would not have changed if he had not carefully tested it and found that T style rifling worked better for him.
Shilen makes a good quality barrel and people still use them to win matches.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the areas of firearms "fashion" equals popularity. Shilen is not as "Fashionable" as some of the newer stars in the barrel making world. But Shilen has been making barrels for many years, and 20-30 years ago they were among the "best" barrel to use.
Times change, and new "stars" emerge. Today when someone asks which barrel maker should they use, you will hear names of cut rifled barrel makers like Kreiger, Broughton, and Rock Creek for example. And they are good makers, no lie.
But some of the old line companies like, Shilen, Hart and Douglas continue to make and deliver excellent barrels. It's just not "fashionable" to use them, because shooters in the winners circle are now using something else.
So it's no real surprise you got a good barrel from Shilen. They have been making good barrels for more than 50 years.
YMMV </div></div>
+1, the shooting world is very much to go with whats new.
Here's what I think caused the change in perception. For years BR great, Tony Boyer, won using Shilen and then he changed to Bartlien. The whole shooting world stopped to have a look because Tony had always shot Shilen but now he stopped so they must not be any good.
Tony could out shoot most of us using any "cheap" barrel out there but he also is a good enough shot to tell the difference between two very high quality barrels. Most of us are probably not that good.
Those of us that know him also know that he would not have changed if he had not carefully tested it and found that T style rifling worked better for him.
Shilen makes a good quality barrel and people still use them to win matches.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
I see a lot of Shilen Barrels here in Texas. Mostly on Benchrest Rifles. They seem to be well respected. It could be that Shilen is the "local" producer.
I also believe there is some truth to what Thunderbolt said about the relationship between the Barrel Makers and the Gunsmiths.
I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary understanding of Engineering.
I see a lot of Shilen Barrels here in Texas. Mostly on Benchrest Rifles. They seem to be well respected. It could be that Shilen is the "local" producer.
I also believe there is some truth to what Thunderbolt said about the relationship between the Barrel Makers and the Gunsmiths.
I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary understanding of Engineering.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
The companies that do single point cut rifled barrels use a Pratt and Whitney MK1 machine, they are very rare to find for sale or in working condition today...Krieger, Obmermeyer have been using the same machine that origionally made GI barrels during (as Archie Bunker used to say) "the big one WW2"
If you speak with Kreiger or Obermeyer they will tell you that using their method does not stress the metal...if you speak with Dan Lilja who uses a button, he will tell you that they stress releave the barrel after it is cut.....
at the end of the day its Chevy vs Ford...
The companies that do single point cut rifled barrels use a Pratt and Whitney MK1 machine, they are very rare to find for sale or in working condition today...Krieger, Obmermeyer have been using the same machine that origionally made GI barrels during (as Archie Bunker used to say) "the big one WW2"
If you speak with Kreiger or Obermeyer they will tell you that using their method does not stress the metal...if you speak with Dan Lilja who uses a button, he will tell you that they stress releave the barrel after it is cut.....
at the end of the day its Chevy vs Ford...
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
The select match grade and the match grade barrels form Shilen has nothing to do with the guiltily of the barrel steel. It's the measurement of the bore diameter over its entire length, same as other button barrel manufactures.
If the measurement falls out of a given parameter for a Select Match barrel it is down graded to Match barrel quality. If it falls out of that parameter it's rejected for that given caliber.
There are lots of cut rifle barrels that can't and don't touch the specs of Shilen for other reasons and there are some that are better, but not always.
There are pluses and minuses with both cut and button rifled barrels from any manufacture, a lot might just come down to what one intends to do with the rifle.
There are a few manufactures that make cut barrels and few that make button rifled barrels that I won't use for inconsistent quality and company run issues, both Shilen and Bartlein don't fall into this category. I use both and I've been very happy with them and never had a bad one yet, in fact I find that Bartlein and Shilen have some of the straightest bores out there.
The select match grade and the match grade barrels form Shilen has nothing to do with the guiltily of the barrel steel. It's the measurement of the bore diameter over its entire length, same as other button barrel manufactures.
If the measurement falls out of a given parameter for a Select Match barrel it is down graded to Match barrel quality. If it falls out of that parameter it's rejected for that given caliber.
There are lots of cut rifle barrels that can't and don't touch the specs of Shilen for other reasons and there are some that are better, but not always.
There are pluses and minuses with both cut and button rifled barrels from any manufacture, a lot might just come down to what one intends to do with the rifle.
There are a few manufactures that make cut barrels and few that make button rifled barrels that I won't use for inconsistent quality and company run issues, both Shilen and Bartlein don't fall into this category. I use both and I've been very happy with them and never had a bad one yet, in fact I find that Bartlein and Shilen have some of the straightest bores out there.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Great discusion, I feel in the end really you can go with one of the majors and be happy.
HateCa, you hit the nail on the head I was about to explain why the differance in "match" and "select match", but you beat me to the punch.
I only use "select match"
Great discusion, I feel in the end really you can go with one of the majors and be happy.
HateCa, you hit the nail on the head I was about to explain why the differance in "match" and "select match", but you beat me to the punch.
I only use "select match"
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Great to have started such a big discussion. I think really its hard to find fault with any of these great barrel makers we mention here. The important thing for me is getting a manufacturer that can produce good barrels at a realistic price and deliver inside a respectable timeframe.
Great to have started such a big discussion. I think really its hard to find fault with any of these great barrel makers we mention here. The important thing for me is getting a manufacturer that can produce good barrels at a realistic price and deliver inside a respectable timeframe.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
it's not surprising that there is alot of hot discussion on barrels , they are the soul of the rifle
and there does seem to be multiple factors coming into play here
( preference, perception, FAD, cost, barrel life, availability, options i want )
but as consumers, we weigh which of these if most important, prioritze them , and buy accordingly
we are blessed to have such a selection to choose from !
and the big three traditional companies, HART, SHILEN, DOUGLAS still make awesome barrels
the trend has been towards cut rifled, ONE GRADE of high quality barrel , ala , OBERMEYER, KRIEGER, ROCK
having recently interviewed Frank White owner of Compass Lake Engineering , he made an interesting comment, he said ' IT COSTS ME TO TRY A NEW BARREL MANUFACTURER' ;
Frank offers two choices Krieger and Douglas (price point differences for customers)
he also had a pallet of Rock barrels waiting to be worked up for a particular customer as well
there are several manufacturers, that he DID NOT like at all
for a couple of reasons - hard to deal with , didn't stand behind their product , and the barrel would not machine accurately
and Frank is chambering, crowning, machining, 1000's of barrels a year for high power/ service rifle AR-15's
it's not surprising that there is alot of hot discussion on barrels , they are the soul of the rifle
and there does seem to be multiple factors coming into play here
( preference, perception, FAD, cost, barrel life, availability, options i want )
but as consumers, we weigh which of these if most important, prioritze them , and buy accordingly
we are blessed to have such a selection to choose from !
and the big three traditional companies, HART, SHILEN, DOUGLAS still make awesome barrels
the trend has been towards cut rifled, ONE GRADE of high quality barrel , ala , OBERMEYER, KRIEGER, ROCK
having recently interviewed Frank White owner of Compass Lake Engineering , he made an interesting comment, he said ' IT COSTS ME TO TRY A NEW BARREL MANUFACTURER' ;
Frank offers two choices Krieger and Douglas (price point differences for customers)
he also had a pallet of Rock barrels waiting to be worked up for a particular customer as well
there are several manufacturers, that he DID NOT like at all
for a couple of reasons - hard to deal with , didn't stand behind their product , and the barrel would not machine accurately
and Frank is chambering, crowning, machining, 1000's of barrels a year for high power/ service rifle AR-15's
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
As Banshee says about machining accurately. Consistancy in machining is everything. At one of my fathers machine shops we would machine hundreds of tons of Stainless Steel every year. Mostly 431 and 440C. The 431 we would by from multiple suppliers; it was all pretty consistant. The 440C we would only buy from one. It was really difficult to get consistancy between different sources. Any savings in cost, were greatly outweighed by the additional cost in machining.
As Banshee says about machining accurately. Consistancy in machining is everything. At one of my fathers machine shops we would machine hundreds of tons of Stainless Steel every year. Mostly 431 and 440C. The 431 we would by from multiple suppliers; it was all pretty consistant. The 440C we would only buy from one. It was really difficult to get consistancy between different sources. Any savings in cost, were greatly outweighed by the additional cost in machining.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
skunkworks,
you make a profit from any barrel you choose to use so money is no object. i make a rifle for myself or friends with no profit potential. so for me "what i can find a deal on" fits very well into my gameplan and has absolutely nothing to do with my level of "standards". if i can buy the same bartlein you use for $275 instead of $325 why not do it? does that make it any less of a barrel or have any less potential? i make no accuracy guarantees and my buddies seem fine with that and generally my rifles shoot very well. i have only one rifle that hasnt met my expectations and that was on a beloved krieger. it is a solid .3-.5 rifle but i think it should be more consistently at the .3 and under. i also stated that i have a favorite manufacturer for a reason and use them regularly. you say fad has something to do with individuals and nothing to do with you as a manufacturer. how did you choose your special barrel maker? did you try EVERY manufacturer out there to come to your conclusion? i would imagine you looked at what other people were using and started there or asked another manufacturer you had confidence in as to their preferred maker. if you like to build on brand X receiver but the hot item right now is brand Y receiver. you had better start building on brand Y receiver or you will be on your way out. like it or not, the shooting industry is extremely peer driven. you do it your way and i will do it mine. no reason to shit on me because my way doesnt meet your "standard".
chuck
skunkworks,
you make a profit from any barrel you choose to use so money is no object. i make a rifle for myself or friends with no profit potential. so for me "what i can find a deal on" fits very well into my gameplan and has absolutely nothing to do with my level of "standards". if i can buy the same bartlein you use for $275 instead of $325 why not do it? does that make it any less of a barrel or have any less potential? i make no accuracy guarantees and my buddies seem fine with that and generally my rifles shoot very well. i have only one rifle that hasnt met my expectations and that was on a beloved krieger. it is a solid .3-.5 rifle but i think it should be more consistently at the .3 and under. i also stated that i have a favorite manufacturer for a reason and use them regularly. you say fad has something to do with individuals and nothing to do with you as a manufacturer. how did you choose your special barrel maker? did you try EVERY manufacturer out there to come to your conclusion? i would imagine you looked at what other people were using and started there or asked another manufacturer you had confidence in as to their preferred maker. if you like to build on brand X receiver but the hot item right now is brand Y receiver. you had better start building on brand Y receiver or you will be on your way out. like it or not, the shooting industry is extremely peer driven. you do it your way and i will do it mine. no reason to shit on me because my way doesnt meet your "standard".
chuck
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary enderstanding of Engineering. </div></div>
Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary enderstanding of Engineering. </div></div>
Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">skunkworks,
you make a profit from any barrel you choose to use so money is no object. i make a rifle for myself or friends with no profit potential. so for me "what i can find a deal on" fits very well into my gameplan and has absolutely nothing to do with my level of "standards". if i can buy the same bartlein you use for $275 instead of $325 why not do it? does that make it any less of a barrel or have any less potential? i make no accuracy guarantees and my buddies seem fine with that and generally my rifles shoot very well. i have only one rifle that hasnt met my expectations and that was on a beloved krieger. it is a solid .3-.5 rifle but i think it should be more consistently at the .3 and under. i also stated that i have a favorite manufacturer for a reason and use them regularly. you say fad has something to do with individuals and nothing to do with you as a manufacturer. how did you choose your special barrel maker? did you try EVERY manufacturer out there to come to your conclusion? i would imagine you looked at what other people were using and started there or asked another manufacturer you had confidence in as to their preferred maker. if you like to build on brand X receiver but the hot item right now is brand Y receiver. you had better start building on brand Y receiver or you will be on your way out. like it or not, the shooting industry is extremely peer driven. you do it your way and i will do it mine. no reason to shit on me because my way doesnt meet your "standard".
chuck </div></div>
Chuck,
I believe something may have been lost in interpretation. I didn't intend to poop on anybody, in fact, I agree with most everything you're saying. When I mention my standard, I'm not doing so with my nose turned up, I really do have a documented standard of operation and a documented machining tolerance. These documents are part of my company mission statement. It's not an individually driven comment at all. I was merely trying to point out the differences between individual built rifles versus something the industry judges a bit more harshly. As far as my barrel selection, profit is secondary and end product quality is first. I didn't leave my selection to chance by asking so and so what barrel they use, I spoke directly to as many barrel makers as possible and used my own judgement. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, as that was not my intent. There are a lot of guys on here such as yourself that build great rifles. I and others in "orange" have to go at it a bit differently and that is all I was trying to point out. I read back through the other post and I understand why you may feel slighted. What I wrote was poorly written, but certainly not intended the way it appeared. I have removed it....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">skunkworks,
you make a profit from any barrel you choose to use so money is no object. i make a rifle for myself or friends with no profit potential. so for me "what i can find a deal on" fits very well into my gameplan and has absolutely nothing to do with my level of "standards". if i can buy the same bartlein you use for $275 instead of $325 why not do it? does that make it any less of a barrel or have any less potential? i make no accuracy guarantees and my buddies seem fine with that and generally my rifles shoot very well. i have only one rifle that hasnt met my expectations and that was on a beloved krieger. it is a solid .3-.5 rifle but i think it should be more consistently at the .3 and under. i also stated that i have a favorite manufacturer for a reason and use them regularly. you say fad has something to do with individuals and nothing to do with you as a manufacturer. how did you choose your special barrel maker? did you try EVERY manufacturer out there to come to your conclusion? i would imagine you looked at what other people were using and started there or asked another manufacturer you had confidence in as to their preferred maker. if you like to build on brand X receiver but the hot item right now is brand Y receiver. you had better start building on brand Y receiver or you will be on your way out. like it or not, the shooting industry is extremely peer driven. you do it your way and i will do it mine. no reason to shit on me because my way doesnt meet your "standard".
chuck </div></div>
Chuck,
I believe something may have been lost in interpretation. I didn't intend to poop on anybody, in fact, I agree with most everything you're saying. When I mention my standard, I'm not doing so with my nose turned up, I really do have a documented standard of operation and a documented machining tolerance. These documents are part of my company mission statement. It's not an individually driven comment at all. I was merely trying to point out the differences between individual built rifles versus something the industry judges a bit more harshly. As far as my barrel selection, profit is secondary and end product quality is first. I didn't leave my selection to chance by asking so and so what barrel they use, I spoke directly to as many barrel makers as possible and used my own judgement. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, as that was not my intent. There are a lot of guys on here such as yourself that build great rifles. I and others in "orange" have to go at it a bit differently and that is all I was trying to point out. I read back through the other post and I understand why you may feel slighted. What I wrote was poorly written, but certainly not intended the way it appeared. I have removed it....
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
SO,
Glad we all agree Shilen is the best. Then all others.lol...lol...lol
SO,
Glad we all agree Shilen is the best. Then all others.lol...lol...lol
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
"Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles."
There is a difference between a machinist and an engineer. Many a gunsmith and barrel maker are very fine machinist, and yes, you don't need an engineering degree to build an accurate rife.
But, I have spoken to barrel makers that do not understand concepts that I would consider directly related to their industry.
Engineers are arrogant, I work with them every day. Many are ignorant outside of their field, and some within their field.
"Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles."
There is a difference between a machinist and an engineer. Many a gunsmith and barrel maker are very fine machinist, and yes, you don't need an engineering degree to build an accurate rife.
But, I have spoken to barrel makers that do not understand concepts that I would consider directly related to their industry.
Engineers are arrogant, I work with them every day. Many are ignorant outside of their field, and some within their field.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles."
There is a difference between a machinist and an engineer. Many a gunsmith and barrel maker are very fine machinist, and yes, you don't need an engineering degree to build an accurate rife.
But, I have spoken to barrel makers that do not understand concepts that I would consider directly related to their industry.
Engineers are arrogant, I work with them every day. Many are ignorant outside of their field, and some within their field.
</div></div>
My father, my wife, my son, my uncle, and my cousins are engineers, as am I.
I know what you mean.
My wife is arrogant, ignorant, and difficult to deal with.
She complains if I track metal chips, from gunsmithing, into the house.
She says I should not go hunting again until we eat the 4 animals I put in the freezer in 2009.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles."
There is a difference between a machinist and an engineer. Many a gunsmith and barrel maker are very fine machinist, and yes, you don't need an engineering degree to build an accurate rife.
But, I have spoken to barrel makers that do not understand concepts that I would consider directly related to their industry.
Engineers are arrogant, I work with them every day. Many are ignorant outside of their field, and some within their field.
</div></div>
My father, my wife, my son, my uncle, and my cousins are engineers, as am I.
I know what you mean.
My wife is arrogant, ignorant, and difficult to deal with.
She complains if I track metal chips, from gunsmithing, into the house.
She says I should not go hunting again until we eat the 4 animals I put in the freezer in 2009.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Just to throw this out there,
My local gunsmith said he didn't like to use Shilen Barrels because usually there were reamer marks left in the barrel where as with a Krieger barrel they had lapped the reamer marks out for a nice smooth finish.
Now I don't know what "grade" barrel he was looking at with his bore scope, but I would assume it was the select match barrels since he is a 90% benchrest gunsmith.
If you looked down a the throat of a Factory Remington Barrel you would see all kinds of reamer marks. Most Remingtons Shoot great.
Me personally, I haven't shot a Shilen. I do have one on order for a 22-250 savage build.
This is just word of mouth, YMMV.
Maybe some of the local snipershide gunsmiths can chime in on what the internals look like with a bore scope.
Reamer marks in the internals do not mean the barrel won't shoot the lights out. But It could possibly foul faster than a lapped barrel.
Me personally I got 400 rounds down my krieger barrel before I noticed the accuracy fade and I cleaned It and it was back to shooting good.
Just to throw this out there,
My local gunsmith said he didn't like to use Shilen Barrels because usually there were reamer marks left in the barrel where as with a Krieger barrel they had lapped the reamer marks out for a nice smooth finish.
Now I don't know what "grade" barrel he was looking at with his bore scope, but I would assume it was the select match barrels since he is a 90% benchrest gunsmith.
If you looked down a the throat of a Factory Remington Barrel you would see all kinds of reamer marks. Most Remingtons Shoot great.
Me personally, I haven't shot a Shilen. I do have one on order for a 22-250 savage build.
This is just word of mouth, YMMV.
Maybe some of the local snipershide gunsmiths can chime in on what the internals look like with a bore scope.
Reamer marks in the internals do not mean the barrel won't shoot the lights out. But It could possibly foul faster than a lapped barrel.
Me personally I got 400 rounds down my krieger barrel before I noticed the accuracy fade and I cleaned It and it was back to shooting good.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
4Rail_gunner, With all do respect. Your gunsmith comment is like some saying "that Ford does not build a good truck because in 1947 he had one that the paint faded to early."
Come on..... Shilen owns the benchrest world. If they did not shoot they would not be( majority ) barrel of choice.
4Rail_gunner, With all do respect. Your gunsmith comment is like some saying "that Ford does not build a good truck because in 1947 he had one that the paint faded to early."
Come on..... Shilen owns the benchrest world. If they did not shoot they would not be( majority ) barrel of choice.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Thunderbolt,
Apparently from your posts, you are very biased for Shilen.
Since your in Texas also I would assume your good friends with the Shilen Gang, or Maybe your last name is Shilen.
I didn't state that Shilens wouldn't shoot, just that a gunsmith (Triple G) said he keeps seeing reamer marks in them compared to other top end barrels he's looked at. Maybe they will foul faster than others. If your in benchrest though you shoot your 5 or 10 shots and then clean your gun and put it away.
I'd like to see the nationals/world whatever record that Shilen is Holding and the Yardage. nbrsa.org just shows names and scores.
Will my next 260 be a Shilen? No, cause I already have a Krieger in my hands.
Will my next 22-250 be a Shilen? Yep, Its on order waiting on them to call me so I can take them the Action and get it finished. Maybe you can convert me to only Shilen barrels with that one.
Here is what a voting poll at 6mmbr shows.
Here is the link if you want to check it out yourself
http://www.6mmbr.com/polls/poll/1307694/8486.htm
Thunderbolt,
Apparently from your posts, you are very biased for Shilen.
Since your in Texas also I would assume your good friends with the Shilen Gang, or Maybe your last name is Shilen.
I didn't state that Shilens wouldn't shoot, just that a gunsmith (Triple G) said he keeps seeing reamer marks in them compared to other top end barrels he's looked at. Maybe they will foul faster than others. If your in benchrest though you shoot your 5 or 10 shots and then clean your gun and put it away.
I'd like to see the nationals/world whatever record that Shilen is Holding and the Yardage. nbrsa.org just shows names and scores.
Will my next 260 be a Shilen? No, cause I already have a Krieger in my hands.
Will my next 22-250 be a Shilen? Yep, Its on order waiting on them to call me so I can take them the Action and get it finished. Maybe you can convert me to only Shilen barrels with that one.
Here is what a voting poll at 6mmbr shows.
Here is the link if you want to check it out yourself
http://www.6mmbr.com/polls/poll/1307694/8486.htm
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
mike,
no hard feelings at all and thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant.
chuck
mike,
no hard feelings at all and thanks for taking the time to explain what you meant.
chuck
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
I have a SS select on a .243 mauser I had built a couple years ago. It shoots lights out, but the twist is slower than advertised, and it will only shoot 85gr bullets, any heavier and it throws them around in about 10" groups but will pack 85gr bullets as close as I can do it.
Barrel snobs make me laugh.
I currently shoot a Broughton, because thats what my smith uses.
Hell, the best 1000 yard group I ever shot (5.5") was with an E.R. Shaw built 6.5x284, but god, would it foul.
I have a SS select on a .243 mauser I had built a couple years ago. It shoots lights out, but the twist is slower than advertised, and it will only shoot 85gr bullets, any heavier and it throws them around in about 10" groups but will pack 85gr bullets as close as I can do it.
Barrel snobs make me laugh.
I currently shoot a Broughton, because thats what my smith uses.
Hell, the best 1000 yard group I ever shot (5.5") was with an E.R. Shaw built 6.5x284, but god, would it foul.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty. That's what it says on Shilen's website.
If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty. That's what it says on Shilen's website.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is your local gunsmith named triple G ( garlin gilbreth ) </div></div>
As far as I know this guy got his debut in the gunsmithing industry by Mr. Shilen himself.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THUNDERBOLT68</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is your local gunsmith named triple G ( garlin gilbreth ) </div></div>
As far as I know this guy got his debut in the gunsmithing industry by Mr. Shilen himself.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 257speed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary enderstanding of Engineering. </div></div>
Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles. </div></div>
I have also found that many people from Texas have a rather rudimentary understanding of most simple things in life, let alone gunsmithing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 257speed</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: txlimey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have also found that many Barrel Makers and Gunsmiths have a rather rudimentary enderstanding of Engineering. </div></div>
Sorry, I don't "enderstand", just a dumb ole gunsmith I guess hahahahah This is possibly one of the stupidest things posted thus far in this thread. I have found that engineers are some of the most arrogant and difficult to deal with people. Didn't know I needed an engineering degree to build accurate rifles. </div></div>
I have also found that many people from Texas have a rather rudimentary understanding of most simple things in life, let alone gunsmithing.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty.</div></div>
I don't think one would be voiding much.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty.</div></div>
I don't think one would be voiding much.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
Just for conversation and accuracy facts;
Below I listed the 2009 World Open 1000 Yard BR LG Equipment List. I didnt count the Bartlien Barrels but we all know they kick ass anyway, yes I own one.
27 Krieger Barrels (My favorite cut rifled barrel)
18 Broughton Barrels (My favorite button rifled barrel)
11 Hart Barrels
10 Lawton Barrel
1 Shilen
Broughton held the #1 position on the relay I counted and had four barrels in the top 10
Just for conversation and accuracy facts;
Below I listed the 2009 World Open 1000 Yard BR LG Equipment List. I didnt count the Bartlien Barrels but we all know they kick ass anyway, yes I own one.
27 Krieger Barrels (My favorite cut rifled barrel)
18 Broughton Barrels (My favorite button rifled barrel)
11 Hart Barrels
10 Lawton Barrel
1 Shilen
Broughton held the #1 position on the relay I counted and had four barrels in the top 10
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
4Rail_gunner, first I am not bias I buy many differant barrels from many differant barrel co. I also buy Fords and GM products.
I just get a kick out of how people say that one barrel Mftg. is better than the other. Just as there are guys that swear Ford is Better Than GM.
I am not the one who said " my gunsmith does not like Shilen b/c he sees reamer marks in the barrel." Does your gunsmith buy already reamed barrels or does he ream them himself.
As far as triple G I have used garland and he does a great job chambering remington style actions. And yes he got his start w/ Mr daddy Shilen.
4Rail_gunner, first I am not bias I buy many differant barrels from many differant barrel co. I also buy Fords and GM products.
I just get a kick out of how people say that one barrel Mftg. is better than the other. Just as there are guys that swear Ford is Better Than GM.
I am not the one who said " my gunsmith does not like Shilen b/c he sees reamer marks in the barrel." Does your gunsmith buy already reamed barrels or does he ream them himself.
As far as triple G I have used garland and he does a great job chambering remington style actions. And yes he got his start w/ Mr daddy Shilen.
Re: Shilen barrels are second to none
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty. That's what it says on Shilen's website. </div></div>
That's because it is a button rifled barrel, as opposed to cut. If you understand the diferance between the two, you would know why it voids your warranty.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedRyder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're thinking of buying a Shilen and fluting it, you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty. That's what it says on Shilen's website. </div></div>
That's because it is a button rifled barrel, as opposed to cut. If you understand the diferance between the two, you would know why it voids your warranty.
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