Shooting a good group

[Doing my part]

I'm sick of not making a good 100yd group. Let's say for the sake of argument that good would be 1/2 moa.

I believe my gun and ammunition are good enough.

My regular shooting is not terrible - I make first round hits frequently enough that I don't THINK I'm doing anything awful.

However, every time I go to make holes at 100yd I end up with a stupid flyer or more spread than I am happy with. Besides repeatable set up and consistent approach, are there any tricks I'm missing to get a braggable 5rd, 100 yard group please?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Gun? Scope?mount?ammo?

 

[BiggBeans]

Have you watched the training videos on the hide

 

[Doing my part]

Howa bravo, 6.5cm, athlon argos BTR scope, tier 1 rings, expensive ass pic rail I can't remember the name of. Ammo from a reputable match loading guy (something like 50fps max difference across the 7 rounds I chrono'd), shooting off bags at a bench most of the time.

 

[Doing my part]

Yep, thanks, like I said I'm actually pretty happy with my shooting overall, I just seem to be incapable of keeping my shit together for five shots in a row.

 

[Newbie2020]

Breath control. 90 degree trigger finger. Trigger press-break-freeze. Check your length of pull.

Dry fire once or twice before every shot.

If you send a flyer, stop and assess what you did wrong. Then start a new group.

 

[acudaowner]

if your range is longer than 100 yards then the only thing stopping you from shooting further out is you dope to get further out is also nice to have not much worse than wasting ammo shooting grass so a balistic calculator could help give your somewhere to start and a note book to document what your dope actually is another good thing cause wasting ammo is bad but forgetting what you did makes everything a waste . best of luck you can do it .

 

[SDBguy95]

The training videos offered here are amazing! I was having the same thing going on as you, it felt like I was driving the gun very consistently yet still had fliers. I eventually watched some of the training videos and learned I was forgetting to pull the gun back into my shoulder pocket when firing. My groups cleaned up quite a bit after that!

 

[Carlos Danger]

Yep, thanks, like I said I'm actually pretty happy with my shooting overall, I just seem to be incapable of keeping my shit together for five shots in a row.

Tell me about it....

 

[SDBguy95]

Tell me about it....

View attachment 7734800

Most people say flier is the last shot, but usually it's number 3 for me

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Shoot 3 rounds and quit......... Get up, have a cup of coffee, let the weapon rest, go for a walk, clear your head. then go back and shoot 3 more. Get back to us.

 

[smoothy8500]

so, was it a "called" or "un-called" flier? In other words, when the shot broke did you know it was off, or was it a surprise when you looked through the scope?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Find a good shooter who consistently shoots small groups. If they shoot the rifle/ammo combo and it performs the way you want, then you know it’s you.

It’s almost always us (the shooter), but the mental advantage of absolutely knowing it’s you always helps advance the process of becoming better.

 

[Near miss]

Spend 500 to 1k on some shooting gear, the problem should take care of itself.

Well, really I would suggest very stringent dry fire at the range.

Make 5 or 10 successful shots before grouping and 2 or 3 between firings.

And be very hard on yourself. Do not let even your focus drift from target to reticle the different way. Feel out your finger, elbows, shoulder, cheek. Do they keep the same? Did you improve your position or did it worsen? Did you let the air out at the same pace?

This will make some memories to your brain how a shot should be taken, at least when you have to correct those.

 

[Doing my part]

Thanks guys, I will apply this and report back. Unless it's complete trash in which case I will try to not mention it for a while

 

[Baron23]

I too found many of the training videos on this site to be very helpful.

For me...and I'm no expert marksman...it is breath control, trigger control, and recoil control with the last two being the most challenging for me to attempt to master.

Just a naive question, but after the shot....where is your reticle? You stay on the gun and in the scope after the shot, right? So, where does your POA end up after the recoil pulse? Still on target or bounced off (for right-handers, it seems bouncing left and up is common)?

Recoil control has been an emphasis of mine over the last year and I have seen some very nice improvement in control and results.

Take anything I say with a grain of salt and best of luck.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Let’s try a different direction. What’s the point? What is the point is hitting what you are trying to hit. Punching perfect holes in paper is nice but….What is important is the shooter/firearm combination hitting the ten ring or the steel silhouette or the steel chicken/pig/turkey/ram silhouette falls or the paper silhouette has the holes center punched. While I love to brag about one hole groups I am much more proud of ringing steel at a half mile or watching the Ram silhouette fall to my handgun at 200 meters. (Or that deer is harvested)

Point, if the firearm/shooter can put five bullets into an inch or less at 100 yards, the first shot from a cold barrel with the following shots being taken without any hesitation, that’s what is needed to do all of the above.

 

[Doing my part]

after the shot....where is your reticle? You stay on the gun and in the scope after the shot, right? So, where does your POA end up after the recoil pulse?

I couldn't tell you, its not something I have been looking for when I shoot.... So far. I'm definitely still on the scope, I usually spot my own shots even with CM at LR/ELR.

I'll add this to the play book next trip and see what I see. Thanks!

 

[Doing my part]

Let’s try a different direction. What’s the point? What is the point is hitting what you are trying to hit. Punching perfect holes in paper is nice but….What is important is the shooter/firearm combination hitting the ten ring or the steel silhouette or the steel chicken/pig/turkey/ram silhouette falls or the paper silhouette has the holes center punched. While I love to brag about one hole groups I am much more proud of ringing steel at a half mile or watching the Ram silhouette fall to my handgun at 200 meters. (Or that deer is harvested)

Point, if the firearm/shooter can put five bullets into an inch or less at 100 yards, the first shot from a cold barrel with the following shots being taken without any hesitation, that’s what is needed to do all of the above.

This is a nice comment, and the answer is... Shits and gigs. I'm happy with my hunting and long range performance, but a pretty bughole still eludes me. That's why I thought I would make an effort and see where I end up.

Wholeheartedly agree with you in terms of effective shooting, this is just a novelty I'm somewhat interested in.

 

[Hickswr]

Don’t over think it or stress over group size. Shoot a group on lower power with your brain on auto pilot and see what happens.

I shoot best when I turn my brain off and just shoot. If you are consciously thinking about trigger pressure, pulling gun into shoulder, cheek wield, breathing, hope I don’t pull this shot, ect., then you are mentally screwing yourself.

Shoot 5 shots at 5 different aiming points and then measure collective group size from each aim point. That should help keep the mind games to a minimum.

If the recoil impulse of the gun isn’t consistent then your form needs work.

 

[1moaoff]

You need proof the gun and load are capable if it. Have someone else that's good try it.

 

[chase723]

Post some pics of some targets. Maybe your rifle also doesn’t love that load. Was it developed specifically for it or is it just a load for 6.5 Creed that “shoots well in a couple rifles”? 50fps extreme spread is pretty bad…you’re looking for less than 30fps for 10 rounds, less than 20 is preferred. What kind of a 3 or 5 shot group are you shooting at say 500? If you can shoot a sub MOA group pretty consistently at 500 then it’s you having trouble just holding it together at 100.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Be your own worst critic.
One thing that helped me, was to gopro myself.
You see a lot that you aren't aware you are doing.
Definitely go through the Sniper's Hide lessons.
There are years of practical knowledge there.
Most importantly, enjoy it.

 

[n0glock]

For me the target makes a difference in shooting small groups, don’t know if it is my short attention span, mild dyslexia or what, but it makes a difference. My favorite is the Burris target sold on their website. Several clear aiming points to focus on

 

[OREGUN]

-Focus and consistency. Fundamentals. including FOLLOW THROUGH and BREATHING. It’s entirely likely that you are holding your breath and as the shooting progresses, your excitement over three good shots plus some unconscious breath holding is elevating your heart rate….otherwise freaking out your sympathetic nervous system making you fidgety and unsteady.

-Make sure you are shooting (1) five shot group and not (5) one shot groups….no wiggling around, moving your face, etc. it’s tempting to shoot three and then sense that something has changed and wiggle around to fix it, effectively starting a new group.

-Add some more pull into the shoulder with your grip hand. Especially if your forend is just sitting on a front bag. My 6.5 in a fairly light setup needs a more firm hold to shoot well. The difference is noticeable.

When you say you are shooting off of bags…does that mean front and rear? Are you manipulating the rear bag or is it a rabbit ears type arrangement that you are just resting the stock in? If you are manipulating, try squeezing harder…firming up the bag. Also, see above about pulling harder.

Is the cutout on the bench forcing you to sit at an angle to the gun? Where is your left shoulder/arm? Can you sit at the back of the bench and not in the contour/cutout?

Finally, make sure you have the smallest aim point you can see with your scope. Aim small, miss small. A 1” dot is way too big, for example. Make sure your parallax is completely adjusted.

Easy peasy, nothing to it.

Good luck. Post some pics.

 

[CoryT]

Y'all are working much too hard. If you want a small group, shoot once.

Mostly the problem boils down to a lack of mental focus on some shot out of the group. This is even more of a problem where you can spot your own impacts though the scope, and after making two or three good shots you just flake out on one trying for that perfect one hole group everyone wants.

Here's one for you to try, get a nice tall target, set an aiming point at the bottom and dial up near max elevation, so the impacts are out of the field of view. Now shoot a couple groups. No holes to distract you, don't even look.

 

[Doing my part]

Post some pics of some targets. Maybe your rifle also doesn’t love that load. Was it developed specifically for it or is it just a load for 6.5 Creed that “shoots well in a couple rifles”? 50fps extreme spread is pretty bad…you’re looking for less than 30fps for 10 rounds, less than 20 is preferred. What kind of a 3 or 5 shot group are you shooting at say 500? If you can shoot a sub MOA group pretty consistently at 500 then it’s you having trouble just holding it together at 100.

Will do, heading out next weekend.

Ammo is, as you say, the ammo guys off the shelf precision 6.5cm load. I may be remembering the figures from the chrono badly but my range owner (who lent me the chrono) was impressed with the SD. I will have a dig and see if I can be more precise.

I'm due another batch before too long and I'll be taking my gun up to talk about developing a more tailored load.

Thanks for the thinking points!

 

[Doing my part]

Y'all are working much too hard. If you want a small group, shoot once.

Mostly the problem boils down to a lack of mental focus on some shot out of the group. This is even more of a problem where you can spot your own impacts though the scope, and after making two or three good shots you just flake out on one trying for that perfect one hole group everyone wants.

Here's one for you to try, get a nice tall target, set an aiming point at the bottom and dial up near max elevation, so the impacts are out of the field of view. Now shoot a couple groups. No holes to distract you, don't even look.

I like this, again more things to try!

 

[MadDuner]

Some days I'm on it.
Some days I should stay home.
The groups demonstrate this to me only too often.

 

[Doing my part]

I was a little out - 11fps max difference.

 

[chase723]

View attachment 7737398
I was a little out - 11fps max difference.

Lol. That’s much better. Only 4 rounds but still looks like quality loading. If your rifle “likes” that load then it should shoot well and hold together as far as you can shoot. However, despite excellent ES/SDs, some loads do not shoot well in some rifles. I’ve had that experience…kind of a bummer when it happens.