Does anyone know where to find information on seel target safety. I know you need to use armor plate but I'd like an experts knowledge regarding safe distances with say a 223, 308, 40, 45 etc as well as possible risks of ricochet, can it ricochet to the sides, etc. I have one set up now that I built but the closest that I've shot it was 250 yds, I want to set up a pistol range as well as a 100yd rifle range with steel. Please help!!
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Range Report Shooting Steel Safely
- Thread starter bpickle
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Re: Shooting Steel Safely
MGM Targets has a sticker on the back that says don't shoot closer than 15 yards.
A lot has to do with the angle of the steel and the construction of the stand, etc. 100 yards, no problem, shooting most bullets they hit and turn to pieces. Nothing is going to bounce back 100 yards with any sort of force unless you're that guy shooting the 50 cal at a solid plate. Have a plate that swings or is angled downward is a very good idea, it prevents a straight back ricochet.
I've shot pistol plates that swing or fall at 7-10 yards, never a big concern, I probably would back up to 15 for the flat plates on a post that don't fall.
I've shot a 308 at an angled plate at 15 yards. Good idea....probably not, but I survived it. I wouldn't shoot that at a flat plate.
Always wear safety glasses.
MGM Targets has a sticker on the back that says don't shoot closer than 15 yards.
A lot has to do with the angle of the steel and the construction of the stand, etc. 100 yards, no problem, shooting most bullets they hit and turn to pieces. Nothing is going to bounce back 100 yards with any sort of force unless you're that guy shooting the 50 cal at a solid plate. Have a plate that swings or is angled downward is a very good idea, it prevents a straight back ricochet.
I've shot pistol plates that swing or fall at 7-10 yards, never a big concern, I probably would back up to 15 for the flat plates on a post that don't fall.
I've shot a 308 at an angled plate at 15 yards. Good idea....probably not, but I survived it. I wouldn't shoot that at a flat plate.
Always wear safety glasses.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
I angled all my plates down a little when I built them. My plates start at 400 and go out, so I have not shot one closer than that... maybe I had it at 300 for a while? Never had anything ricochet off one of them (that I am aware of). Personally I would be nervous shooting at steel closer than 100y... though it's probably nothing to worry about.
I angled all my plates down a little when I built them. My plates start at 400 and go out, so I have not shot one closer than that... maybe I had it at 300 for a while? Never had anything ricochet off one of them (that I am aware of). Personally I would be nervous shooting at steel closer than 100y... though it's probably nothing to worry about.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
Smooth plates are not much of a problem even at close range. It's when they get dimples and craters that you start to eat splash.
This is why we use armor plate. It prolongs the time before you have to replace the steel or get peppered.
A good rule of thumb is 100 yards for rifle.
Handgun is subjective and greatly depends on the condition and design of the target. I have shot pistol and shotgun extremely close and not had much come back. If you are going to run room clearing with rifle, you need to use frangible ammo on good condition targets AND WEAR BODY ARMOR.
Smooth plates are not much of a problem even at close range. It's when they get dimples and craters that you start to eat splash.
This is why we use armor plate. It prolongs the time before you have to replace the steel or get peppered.
A good rule of thumb is 100 yards for rifle.
Handgun is subjective and greatly depends on the condition and design of the target. I have shot pistol and shotgun extremely close and not had much come back. If you are going to run room clearing with rifle, you need to use frangible ammo on good condition targets AND WEAR BODY ARMOR.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong but in theory, the bullet basically dissenegrates when it strikes the steel? </div></div>
It fragments. The size of the fragments depend on the velocity of the impact.
Longer range/lower velocity = larger fragments.
Close range/high velocity = hardly anything recognizable as a bullet.
What is really interesting is when you go up and find a bunch of little copper discs laying around the target. Those are the base of the jacket from a BTHP.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong but in theory, the bullet basically dissenegrates when it strikes the steel? </div></div>
It fragments. The size of the fragments depend on the velocity of the impact.
Longer range/lower velocity = larger fragments.
Close range/high velocity = hardly anything recognizable as a bullet.
What is really interesting is when you go up and find a bunch of little copper discs laying around the target. Those are the base of the jacket from a BTHP.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong but in theory, the bullet basically dissenegrates when it strikes the steel? </div></div>
It fragments. The size of the fragments depend on the velocity of the impact.
Longer range/lower velocity = larger fragments.
Close range/high velocity = hardly anything recognizable as a bullet.... </div></div>
There was someone shot at Quantico a year and a half or so ago that might argue that point. He was hit with a ricochet fired on steel from a 7.62X39 on an adjacent range. So I would say that the fragmentation has to do very much with the construction of the bullet in addition to the velocity.
Good luck
jerry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Correct me if I'm wrong but in theory, the bullet basically dissenegrates when it strikes the steel? </div></div>
It fragments. The size of the fragments depend on the velocity of the impact.
Longer range/lower velocity = larger fragments.
Close range/high velocity = hardly anything recognizable as a bullet.... </div></div>
There was someone shot at Quantico a year and a half or so ago that might argue that point. He was hit with a ricochet fired on steel from a 7.62X39 on an adjacent range. So I would say that the fragmentation has to do very much with the construction of the bullet in addition to the velocity.
Good luck
jerry
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
I see a ton of rounds go down range and have seen some mishaps and close to death experiences.
Where I shoot, rifle steel is painted one color and handgun another. Forbidden to shoot one with the other.
I've seen one where a "saucer" from a pie plate traveled laterally to the side and 50 stitches later to his neck and nearly bled to death was a scary time. I wish I took a picture of my Oakley's with the .357 jacket stuck in the left lenses and torn from my head. These are just two and there are many more, those saucers are dangerous and can penetrate a chest cavity, know of at least two of those.
Please wear good eye protection, don't shoot cheap dimpled steel, especially with pistol and watch the distances fired and angle, including lateral distance. At a shallow angle, the WHOLE bullet will glance off and travel a few inches off that surface inline and in the direction fired, I'm sure you've heard of skip shooting?
The pieces normally go out from the plate at angles approximately 5-15 degree's, make sure you are not off to the side within that cone. Angled down is one thing to help--but watch the base and sand is your friend.
Be safe!
I see a ton of rounds go down range and have seen some mishaps and close to death experiences.
Where I shoot, rifle steel is painted one color and handgun another. Forbidden to shoot one with the other.
I've seen one where a "saucer" from a pie plate traveled laterally to the side and 50 stitches later to his neck and nearly bled to death was a scary time. I wish I took a picture of my Oakley's with the .357 jacket stuck in the left lenses and torn from my head. These are just two and there are many more, those saucers are dangerous and can penetrate a chest cavity, know of at least two of those.
Please wear good eye protection, don't shoot cheap dimpled steel, especially with pistol and watch the distances fired and angle, including lateral distance. At a shallow angle, the WHOLE bullet will glance off and travel a few inches off that surface inline and in the direction fired, I'm sure you've heard of skip shooting?
The pieces normally go out from the plate at angles approximately 5-15 degree's, make sure you are not off to the side within that cone. Angled down is one thing to help--but watch the base and sand is your friend.
Be safe!
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
I thought I read somewhere that FMJ ammo was good to shoot at steel because it does not break apart/fragment easily. This would make FMJ better than HP ammo but obviously not as good as frangilbe for shooting steel. Can anyone clear this up?
I thought I read somewhere that FMJ ammo was good to shoot at steel because it does not break apart/fragment easily. This would make FMJ better than HP ammo but obviously not as good as frangilbe for shooting steel. Can anyone clear this up?
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
That's a lot of useful info. I intend on using only armor plate for the targets, my supply is 1/2" thick, suspending them with chain on both top and bottom so that I can angle them as desired. I normally shoot ballistic tip or some variation with rifle ammo and hp for pistol ammo. I assume 22LR Copper coated lead is widely used on steel as well? What about shooting 300 BLK 220 MK's subsonic into them, anyone had experience with that?
That's a lot of useful info. I intend on using only armor plate for the targets, my supply is 1/2" thick, suspending them with chain on both top and bottom so that I can angle them as desired. I normally shoot ballistic tip or some variation with rifle ammo and hp for pistol ammo. I assume 22LR Copper coated lead is widely used on steel as well? What about shooting 300 BLK 220 MK's subsonic into them, anyone had experience with that?
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
The subsonics will basically bounce whole. I've been hit with fragments from 25 yards. The dropping targets that depend upon hinges at the bottom and coming over center to stand upright will, after a few thousand rounds of fmj pistol tend to bounce it back at you.
The subsonics will basically bounce whole. I've been hit with fragments from 25 yards. The dropping targets that depend upon hinges at the bottom and coming over center to stand upright will, after a few thousand rounds of fmj pistol tend to bounce it back at you.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a lot of useful info. I intend on using only armor plate for the targets, my supply is 1/2" thick, suspending them with chain on both top and bottom so that I can angle them as desired. I normally shoot ballistic tip or some variation with rifle ammo and hp for pistol ammo. I assume 22LR Copper coated lead is widely used on steel as well? What about shooting 300 BLK 220 MK's subsonic into them, anyone had experience with that? </div></div>
If you could make a swing arm at the top and a mechanism to tilt the target while allowing it to rotate, you would get the angle and not have it rigid to beat your target up as quickly. The swing from suspended steel helps dissipate the energy, resulting in less dimples. Of course the swing arm would be subject to strikes.....
I've not shot 220 SMK's subsonic, but I would be wary of the thicker jackets and low velocities. It seems like a recipe for ricochet. The angled steel may direct it in a safer direction.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sub sonic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a lot of useful info. I intend on using only armor plate for the targets, my supply is 1/2" thick, suspending them with chain on both top and bottom so that I can angle them as desired. I normally shoot ballistic tip or some variation with rifle ammo and hp for pistol ammo. I assume 22LR Copper coated lead is widely used on steel as well? What about shooting 300 BLK 220 MK's subsonic into them, anyone had experience with that? </div></div>
If you could make a swing arm at the top and a mechanism to tilt the target while allowing it to rotate, you would get the angle and not have it rigid to beat your target up as quickly. The swing from suspended steel helps dissipate the energy, resulting in less dimples. Of course the swing arm would be subject to strikes.....
I've not shot 220 SMK's subsonic, but I would be wary of the thicker jackets and low velocities. It seems like a recipe for ricochet. The angled steel may direct it in a safer direction.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
There's a huge body of knowledge/experience in the silhouette communities, aka "iron critter" shooting, for both RF and CF, rifle and pistol.
NRA changed its minimum distance from 25 yards or whatever to 40 in rimfire, because of the frequency of larger fragments reaching back to the line and the spectators too. That's without any target dimpling or dishing making it easier to direct bullet splash and fragments back to the line.
Range safety includes the combination of engineering and enforcement of rules which are dictated by that engineering of the range facility and its targets and impact areas. Sand is your friend, but that requires *enough* sand.
AFIC, you must always plan for more bullet to survive impact than you observe (larger chunks), at higher speeds than you observe, and straight back towards the shooter. Few "freak" events with ricochets are truly unexpected if you think things through. For example, impacts that melt lead to a gray cloud won't melt the copper jacket. See the post from mark5pt56, above.
Personally, I recommend that all steel 50 yards and closer be angled down AND either hinged at the top or just on a stand and free to fall. If they are like iron critters, their "feet" need to be behind a shield, since the horizontal top surface of those feet directs splash back to the firing line. A falling plate hinged at the bottom will sent fragments and even largely-intact bullets skyward when your speed shooters hit them a second or third time as they are falling away. Pepper poppers shot with an SMG are particularly bad for that, and I've seen hardly any ranges anywhere with an overhead cover capable of catching vertical bullets *at the target position*.
There's a huge body of knowledge/experience in the silhouette communities, aka "iron critter" shooting, for both RF and CF, rifle and pistol.
NRA changed its minimum distance from 25 yards or whatever to 40 in rimfire, because of the frequency of larger fragments reaching back to the line and the spectators too. That's without any target dimpling or dishing making it easier to direct bullet splash and fragments back to the line.
Range safety includes the combination of engineering and enforcement of rules which are dictated by that engineering of the range facility and its targets and impact areas. Sand is your friend, but that requires *enough* sand.
AFIC, you must always plan for more bullet to survive impact than you observe (larger chunks), at higher speeds than you observe, and straight back towards the shooter. Few "freak" events with ricochets are truly unexpected if you think things through. For example, impacts that melt lead to a gray cloud won't melt the copper jacket. See the post from mark5pt56, above.
Personally, I recommend that all steel 50 yards and closer be angled down AND either hinged at the top or just on a stand and free to fall. If they are like iron critters, their "feet" need to be behind a shield, since the horizontal top surface of those feet directs splash back to the firing line. A falling plate hinged at the bottom will sent fragments and even largely-intact bullets skyward when your speed shooters hit them a second or third time as they are falling away. Pepper poppers shot with an SMG are particularly bad for that, and I've seen hardly any ranges anywhere with an overhead cover capable of catching vertical bullets *at the target position*.
Re: Shooting Steel Safely
Check out these guys:
http://www.arntzentargets.com/
They are really good about sharing info, give them a call or email.
Check out these guys:
http://www.arntzentargets.com/
They are really good about sharing info, give them a call or email.
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