Advanced Marksmanship Shooting uphill...

[TimK]

...is much more difficult than it appears. I shot today at a target up at about a 15° angle. Couldn't get comfortable behind the rifle, couldn't get a decent cheek weld, couldn't get my head properly positioned for edge to edge clarity, etc. I repeatedly missed what should have only been a moderately difficult shot.

Any position tips or tricks?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Shooting uphill...

are you correcting yuor DOPE for the angle?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Shooting uphill...

how large of a target?

cos 15 is .966 Unless you were really far or really small you should still be "close"

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: Shooting uphill...

Practice is the only thing that helped me. It hurts like hell to practice uphill prone with a 7 1/4lb 375 H&H with short eye releif, but I got it squared away. Feels wrong at first, but now works.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Shooting uphill...

It's what the books and papers don't explain to you about shooting angles...

It's more about the shooter and his position than the angle of the shot. Everyone focuses on the dope required to shoot at an angle, but nobody thinks much about getting to the position or what that position will be once they are there.

Very much an alternate position with all that entails... usually the shot itself is very easy, but, there is a lot more involved, as you found out.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Shooting uphill...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...is much more difficult than it appears. I shot today at a target up at about a 15° angle. Couldn't get comfortable behind the rifle, couldn't get a decent cheek weld, couldn't get my head properly positioned for edge to edge clarity, etc. I repeatedly missed what should have only been a moderately difficult shot.

Any position tips or tricks? </div></div>

As LL mentioned, the problem is usually more of position than ballistics-as you found as well. One trick I try to remember is to lengthen the LOP by putting a lightweight soft rear bag between the butt and my shoulder. This usually gets my eye relief and cheek weld closer to normal. Its not really so bad at say 15*, but any more than that and I'm riding forward badly on the stock.

 

[Bigwheels]

Re: Shooting uphill...

I learned the hard way about proper cheek weld on an uphill shot. Everything felt OK but my neck was cranked as far as it would go. When I broke the shot the recoil nearly broke my neck. Hurt for weeks.

 

[TimK]

Re: Shooting uphill...

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with positional issues on uphill shots. For those who asked, yes, my dope was corrected for the angle. The target was a 5" diameter steel plate at 350 yards. Not trivial, but not impossible either.

It didn't dawn on me that my eye was effectively closer to the scope than normal, and that was part of what had me so screwed up. That's an interesting idea to try to increase the length of pull. I'll give that a try when my neck loosens up. I barely have enough neck flexibility shooting flat...this uphill thing about ruined it.

 

[31 chaser]

Re: Shooting uphill...

This November I will be competing in a police sniper competition in Orlando. It will be one shot from a tower thats about five stories. It's going to be an unknown distance (100-500 yard range). What I would like to know is what kind of POI change can I expect at 250 yards. I think that will be the distance we will be shooting. I work for a small PD and don't have access to a tower. Thanks for the help. Not trying to hijack your thread I just figured it would fit in.
KJ

 

[Lindy]

Re: Shooting uphill...

Angled Fire Explained

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: Shooting uphill...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 31 chaser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This November I will be competing in a police sniper competition in Orlando. It will be one shot from a tower thats about five stories. It's going to be an unknown distance (100-500 yard range). What I would like to know is what kind of POI change can I expect at 250 yards. I think that will be the distance we will be shooting. I work for a small PD and don't have access to a tower. Thanks for the help. Not trying to hijack your thread I just figured it would fit in.
KJ </div></div>

From a 5 story tower (say 20-25 yards tall) to 200 yds and beyond, you would subtract less than two yards of distance. In other words, it is negligible. The formulas are pretty simple, there are a couple ways to figure it, either simple geometry if you know 2 sides of a right triangle (Pythagorean theorem), or with angle up or down from horizontal (COS). We have an angles page in our Data Book that is in use at many of the PR schools and units. In a tower, its more about position and the tower moving in the wind, than the angle of fire from that height. Mark

 

[TiroFijo]

Re: Shooting uphill...

Storm, the Sierra article (see link that Lindy posted above) clearly shows that the "horizontal range" formula leads to large errors at long range, or large angles...

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Shooting uphill...

I use what Sierra calls the IRR. It works, it's fast, and requires only a topo map to get a precise understanding for where to point the rifle to hit what you're aiming at.

Overall, knowledge of slope shooting is as important to understanding where the barrel is pointed as is knowledge of wind/weather, external ballistics, zeroing, the principles of marksmanship, and the elements and factors of a steady position [as earlier alluded to by LL].

 

[Aqua Mark]

Re: Shooting uphill...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TiroFijo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Storm, the Sierra article (see link that Lindy posted above) clearly shows that the "horizontal range" formula leads to large errors at long range, or large angles... </div></div>

Roger that understood, but his example was 250 yards at a low angle, so it would work in a pinch in that situation if you don't have an angle indicator. I have shot from a 5 story tower in that 200-400 yd range enough to have measured angles and Cosine, as well as running the 'quick' formula (range to target and measure from shooting platform to ground), recording the shots, and like I stated, it is negligible in his scenario. Our page does not use that 'quick' formula, but I threw it out for him just to show in his example the shift is negligible since angle is so low, and distance not great. Also, if you don't know the angle, 'estimating' it will result in large errors at distance and at high angles as well. Thank you for clarifying my statement, so people won't assume you can use the quick formula at distance/hi angles. Mark

 

[Chiller]

Re: Shooting uphill...

Tag for tomorrow

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Shooting uphill...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tim K</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...is much more difficult than it appears. I shot today at a target up at about a 15° angle. Couldn't get comfortable behind the rifle, couldn't get a decent cheek weld, couldn't get my head properly positioned for edge to edge clarity, etc. I repeatedly missed what should have only been a moderately difficult shot.

Any position tips or tricks? </div></div>

independent of bullet flight path, you just discovered why "we" out west run taller bipods as well as carry a ruck for the SRM at Raton.

Some shots require you to extend a 9-13" all the way AND put it on top of the ruck.

Some run an even taller bipod, then lay on the ruck for more level shots to elevate their body to the bipod in its lowest position.