New to the forum so please forgive any etiquette mistakes. I currently own a DDM4v1 5.56 and do enjoy it. Looking to acquire a quality built AR-10 and have been doing tons of research. There is a tremendous amount of information available and it can be overwhelming. I've never built one and don't feel comfortable doing so. Have narrowed my search down to 5 manufacturers, JP-LRP07H, La Rue OBR, Noveske N6, LWRC REPR and POF. Reviews are very mixed and can be somewhat discouraging due to outdated information, bad experiences, etc., and can't seem to find recent reviews. The price point of the five manufacturers is pretty close and within +/- $300. I do want a well built, quality AR-10 that can easily convert from range duty to just having a good time plinking. DGI vs. Gas piston, does it make a difference in down range accuracy? This may help narrow down the search based on responses. Ready to bite the bullet, no pun intended, and jump in with both feet (let alone wallet), to acquire a quality built AR-10 platform. Opinions are widely available and I look forward to the responses. thanks
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Shopping for a quaity AR-10
- Thread starter gladiator8us
- Start date
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I would look into the new GAP rifle as well if I were you.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2295779
I would look into the new GAP rifle as well if I were you.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2295779
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Plus 1 for the new GAP-POF! Its probably going to be a game changer. And I think its about $500 less than the rifles you named. Of the ones you mentioned I would like the LWRC REPR best. I have an AR10-T but if I were to spend ~$3000 on a rifle today thats probably what I would buy. Piston operated and side charging handle is what appeal to me.
Plus 1 for the new GAP-POF! Its probably going to be a game changer. And I think its about $500 less than the rifles you named. Of the ones you mentioned I would like the LWRC REPR best. I have an AR10-T but if I were to spend ~$3000 on a rifle today thats probably what I would buy. Piston operated and side charging handle is what appeal to me.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
If you are out of the Peoples Socialist Republik of Kalifornia, look straight to Armalite.
Four of my six semi's are Armalite's.
Fantastic Company & great customer service.
Mid South Tactical Network MSTN builds military weapons and are TOP NOTCH. http://www.mstn.biz/
Any precision AR manufacturer that has a miltary contract will have a considerable wait since the accurized AR-10's are being fielded in higher quantities for military snipers.
AR-15.com (ARFCOM) has a lot of AR-10 builds for sale in their "Equipment Exchange" http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=7&f=120
I hope it is okay to link to another website, but this one is geared specifically to the AR's.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=62
I have been a member there for over 10 years (WARDOG7366).
The link will take you directly to the AR-10, .308 variants.
Lots of good info on the best rated platform you are looking at.
If you are out of the Peoples Socialist Republik of Kalifornia, look straight to Armalite.
Four of my six semi's are Armalite's.
Fantastic Company & great customer service.
Mid South Tactical Network MSTN builds military weapons and are TOP NOTCH. http://www.mstn.biz/
Any precision AR manufacturer that has a miltary contract will have a considerable wait since the accurized AR-10's are being fielded in higher quantities for military snipers.
AR-15.com (ARFCOM) has a lot of AR-10 builds for sale in their "Equipment Exchange" http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=7&f=120
I hope it is okay to link to another website, but this one is geared specifically to the AR's.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=62
I have been a member there for over 10 years (WARDOG7366).
The link will take you directly to the AR-10, .308 variants.
Lots of good info on the best rated platform you are looking at.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
The New Gap 10 is the way to go hands down. I would trade my grendel for one in a heart beat.
The New Gap 10 is the way to go hands down. I would trade my grendel for one in a heart beat.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
You are definetly on the right track with the 5 rifles you listed. In the end I think you would be happy with either one. So make a list of all the features you want and don't want. Such as piston operated, DI, ambidextrious controls, side charging handle, trigger, iron sights, and all the other options I forgot to mention, and then eliminate the rifles based on you choices. It would also be in your best interest to personally handle these different rifles, but I know how difficult that can be.
I was in the same situation you were about 4 months ago and I settled on the lwrc repr. I know its probably the most expensive platform listed but it comes with all the high end features right out of the box, such as geissele two stage trigger, magpul furniture, great backup iron sites, and a side-charging handle. Also the fit and finish is second to none, the adjustable gas knob works great when shooting suppressed. Accuracy has been consistent and more than acceptable for a battle rifle.
Hope this helps, I know the decision can be stressfull.
You are definetly on the right track with the 5 rifles you listed. In the end I think you would be happy with either one. So make a list of all the features you want and don't want. Such as piston operated, DI, ambidextrious controls, side charging handle, trigger, iron sights, and all the other options I forgot to mention, and then eliminate the rifles based on you choices. It would also be in your best interest to personally handle these different rifles, but I know how difficult that can be.
I was in the same situation you were about 4 months ago and I settled on the lwrc repr. I know its probably the most expensive platform listed but it comes with all the high end features right out of the box, such as geissele two stage trigger, magpul furniture, great backup iron sites, and a side-charging handle. Also the fit and finish is second to none, the adjustable gas knob works great when shooting suppressed. Accuracy has been consistent and more than acceptable for a battle rifle.
Hope this helps, I know the decision can be stressfull.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I have 2 armalites that I built/assembled and am working on an Iron ridge lower now. Both rifles shoot excellent. I did have to switch lowers around on a couple of uppers to get a good fit. Not neccassary I just hate the slop. So I have to agree with all of the above. You cannot go wrong. Noveske's can be a little hard to get new sometimes and I have not had great personal experience with there sales or tech department. Nothing terrible but when I had bugs in a factory Ar-15 they weren't real responsive with help. But then again that's compared to people like Glenn Seekins and Badger who have always bent over backward to answer questions. But if I had the cash and wasn't in a hurry I have to agree with Bamf911 I would go GAP. Guaranteed accuracy, great customer service not to mention usually have great resale value.
JMO
Rad
I have 2 armalites that I built/assembled and am working on an Iron ridge lower now. Both rifles shoot excellent. I did have to switch lowers around on a couple of uppers to get a good fit. Not neccassary I just hate the slop. So I have to agree with all of the above. You cannot go wrong. Noveske's can be a little hard to get new sometimes and I have not had great personal experience with there sales or tech department. Nothing terrible but when I had bugs in a factory Ar-15 they weren't real responsive with help. But then again that's compared to people like Glenn Seekins and Badger who have always bent over backward to answer questions. But if I had the cash and wasn't in a hurry I have to agree with Bamf911 I would go GAP. Guaranteed accuracy, great customer service not to mention usually have great resale value.
JMO
Rad
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I went with the Larue.
Just a heads up that the Noveske won't take PMags.
That was a deal breaker for me.
I went with the Larue.
Just a heads up that the Noveske won't take PMags.
That was a deal breaker for me.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Get a POF P308 with a 20" barrel, or hold out and get one of the GAP*POF rifles.
Get a POF P308 with a 20" barrel, or hold out and get one of the GAP*POF rifles.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Will the GAP-10 shoot both .308 and 7.62? The GAP-10 is a sweet looking machined rifle. I initially looked at the GAP-10 but was hesitant as this appears to be a new product for GAP, any field reports? They do make some mighty fine rifles though. I'm not in a hurry and can afford to wait, customer service is priority for me.
I have read on the LWRC REPR forum that folks have experienced bad feeding issues, does anyone know if that has been corrected?
To your point bribri, the decision is stressful. This is worse than getting married. I want to pick up a weapon knowing that if me or my families life depended on it, I can confidently grab and go.
Will the GAP-10 shoot both .308 and 7.62? The GAP-10 is a sweet looking machined rifle. I initially looked at the GAP-10 but was hesitant as this appears to be a new product for GAP, any field reports? They do make some mighty fine rifles though. I'm not in a hurry and can afford to wait, customer service is priority for me.
I have read on the LWRC REPR forum that folks have experienced bad feeding issues, does anyone know if that has been corrected?
To your point bribri, the decision is stressful. This is worse than getting married. I want to pick up a weapon knowing that if me or my families life depended on it, I can confidently grab and go.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Resist the temptation to re-invent the wheel. Here are several that are among the best:
GAP
Accurate And Reliable Rifles (built my mine).
Madesha Firearms
Sabreco
There are others but these I know.
See also www.zediker.com
Resist the temptation to re-invent the wheel. Here are several that are among the best:
GAP
Accurate And Reliable Rifles (built my mine).
Madesha Firearms
Sabreco
There are others but these I know.
See also www.zediker.com
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I am going the build your own route with a Mega MA-TEN chasis and a Rock 5-R barrel custom contoured and chambered. Buy quality components and get the key item (barrel/bolt match) done by a professional. The rest in my opinion is assembly.
I am going the build your own route with a Mega MA-TEN chasis and a Rock 5-R barrel custom contoured and chambered. Buy quality components and get the key item (barrel/bolt match) done by a professional. The rest in my opinion is assembly.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gladiator8us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will the GAP-10 shoot both .308 and 7.62? The GAP-10 is a sweet looking machined rifle. I initially looked at the GAP-10 but was hesitant as this appears to be a new product for GAP, any field reports? They do make some mighty fine rifles though. I'm not in a hurry and can afford to wait, customer service is priority for me.</div></div> GAP is no rookie to building AR type .308's. They're just now using POF cut receivers instead of Armalite or DPMS, hence the "new" product. You can guarantee anything with their name on it will be a hammer or they'll make it so.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gladiator8us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will the GAP-10 shoot both .308 and 7.62? The GAP-10 is a sweet looking machined rifle. I initially looked at the GAP-10 but was hesitant as this appears to be a new product for GAP, any field reports? They do make some mighty fine rifles though. I'm not in a hurry and can afford to wait, customer service is priority for me.</div></div> GAP is no rookie to building AR type .308's. They're just now using POF cut receivers instead of Armalite or DPMS, hence the "new" product. You can guarantee anything with their name on it will be a hammer or they'll make it so.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I don't understand why the new gap 10 will be a game changer? GA George just changed vendors for upper/lowers. It's still a DI 308 semi-auto platform, nothing really different than many other high end semi-auto 308 plumbers. I'm not throwing salt at GAP, just wondering why some of you are putting this new POF version on a pedestal?
By the way, unlike some on this board, I've actually had a custom GAP10 built for me based on armalite platform. It was very nice. I also had a Noveske 308, an Armalite 10T and a couple of other high end 10s. They were all very similar in fit, finish, accuracy and reliability.
To me the game changer semi auto 308 are the FN scars. Not saying they will shoot better, just a completely new platform. Just my 2 cents.
Mike
I don't understand why the new gap 10 will be a game changer? GA George just changed vendors for upper/lowers. It's still a DI 308 semi-auto platform, nothing really different than many other high end semi-auto 308 plumbers. I'm not throwing salt at GAP, just wondering why some of you are putting this new POF version on a pedestal?
By the way, unlike some on this board, I've actually had a custom GAP10 built for me based on armalite platform. It was very nice. I also had a Noveske 308, an Armalite 10T and a couple of other high end 10s. They were all very similar in fit, finish, accuracy and reliability.
To me the game changer semi auto 308 are the FN scars. Not saying they will shoot better, just a completely new platform. Just my 2 cents.
Mike
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Going with Rock Creek 5-R barrles 1:11.25 twist cut for 18.5" and having a smith contour them a little heavy., Rifle length gas porting, Black ceramic coating (same folks that do Armalite SASS), thread/crown barrel and match them to JP enhanced bolts.I wanted the size that would allow for DSM long range matches and heavy metal 3 gun if I wanted. I will PM you pricing and some other info
Going with Rock Creek 5-R barrles 1:11.25 twist cut for 18.5" and having a smith contour them a little heavy., Rifle length gas porting, Black ceramic coating (same folks that do Armalite SASS), thread/crown barrel and match them to JP enhanced bolts.I wanted the size that would allow for DSM long range matches and heavy metal 3 gun if I wanted. I will PM you pricing and some other info
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
If your buying a pre-built instead of building your own all five will give you what your looking for. I always tip my scale towards Larue. He sent my sniper platoon a lot of good equipment for free for two of our deployments. The OBR platform is being fielded heavily by the community recently. Take a peak it took first at the international sniper comp this year, and on most of the teams that finished in the top 5 were running one. Just a thought, Good company, Good product, Awesome support.
Happy Hunting
If your buying a pre-built instead of building your own all five will give you what your looking for. I always tip my scale towards Larue. He sent my sniper platoon a lot of good equipment for free for two of our deployments. The OBR platform is being fielded heavily by the community recently. Take a peak it took first at the international sniper comp this year, and on most of the teams that finished in the top 5 were running one. Just a thought, Good company, Good product, Awesome support.
Happy Hunting
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
If you want a battle rifle, go LMT. If you want a target rifle, go with a builder like GAP or the others previously suggested. If you feel that you need a piston go with a POF 16". If you want to pay too much for your rifle get a REPR or Larue.
If you have some tools you could always build your own or purchase a pre-built upper and stick it on a lower that you have assembled. You could probably build yourself a rifle to do what you want for about 1500 bucks.
If you want a battle rifle, go LMT. If you want a target rifle, go with a builder like GAP or the others previously suggested. If you feel that you need a piston go with a POF 16". If you want to pay too much for your rifle get a REPR or Larue.
If you have some tools you could always build your own or purchase a pre-built upper and stick it on a lower that you have assembled. You could probably build yourself a rifle to do what you want for about 1500 bucks.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Merc8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a peak it took first at the international sniper comp this year </div></div>
IIRC that guy was posting on here for awhile, I can't remember his screen name though (McQ or something can't remember).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Merc8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take a peak it took first at the international sniper comp this year </div></div>
IIRC that guy was posting on here for awhile, I can't remember his screen name though (McQ or something can't remember).
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Thanks Redmass and all for the +1 on GAP. Have scoured the net and can't find anything negative about their weapon systems. If it ever goes to Hades in a hand basket and we experience a SHTF moment, will I need to be concerned about the differences between 7.62 and .308 rounds running through my barrel? Being new to the AR-10 world, I don't know the restrictions against 7.68 vs .308 caliber like I do for my 5.56. This in itself may make a determining factor in the ultimate weapon selection. Talking to Ken at GAP, they can chamber the GAP-10 for me in 7.62. Will that affect the overall accuracy if shooting .308 through a 7.62 chambered battle rifle? I very much appreciate the feedback I have received from the fine folks on this forum.
Thanks Redmass and all for the +1 on GAP. Have scoured the net and can't find anything negative about their weapon systems. If it ever goes to Hades in a hand basket and we experience a SHTF moment, will I need to be concerned about the differences between 7.62 and .308 rounds running through my barrel? Being new to the AR-10 world, I don't know the restrictions against 7.68 vs .308 caliber like I do for my 5.56. This in itself may make a determining factor in the ultimate weapon selection. Talking to Ken at GAP, they can chamber the GAP-10 for me in 7.62. Will that affect the overall accuracy if shooting .308 through a 7.62 chambered battle rifle? I very much appreciate the feedback I have received from the fine folks on this forum.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gladiator8us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Redmass and all for the +1 on GAP. Have scoured the net and can't find anything negative about their weapon systems. If it ever goes to Hades in a hand basket and we experience a SHTF moment, will I need to be concerned about the differences between 7.62 and .308 rounds running through my barrel? Being new to the AR-10 world, I don't know the restrictions against 7.68 vs .308 caliber like I do for my 5.56. This in itself may make a determining factor in the ultimate weapon selection. Talking to Ken at GAP, they can chamber the GAP-10 for me in 7.62. Will that affect the overall accuracy if shooting .308 through a 7.62 chambered battle rifle? I very much appreciate the feedback I have received from the fine folks on this forum. </div></div> .308 vs. 7.62x51 is a bit murky and really depends on the build of your rifle and the ammunition you're using. Short answer, no, shooting 7.62 NATO in a .308 chamber is no problem but confirm that with the builder you go with. Do a search, there's numerous threads on that very subject and many articles across the rest of the net.
As for the SHTF.... I'm not going there but please go ahead and read up on the 2012 thread.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gladiator8us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Redmass and all for the +1 on GAP. Have scoured the net and can't find anything negative about their weapon systems. If it ever goes to Hades in a hand basket and we experience a SHTF moment, will I need to be concerned about the differences between 7.62 and .308 rounds running through my barrel? Being new to the AR-10 world, I don't know the restrictions against 7.68 vs .308 caliber like I do for my 5.56. This in itself may make a determining factor in the ultimate weapon selection. Talking to Ken at GAP, they can chamber the GAP-10 for me in 7.62. Will that affect the overall accuracy if shooting .308 through a 7.62 chambered battle rifle? I very much appreciate the feedback I have received from the fine folks on this forum. </div></div> .308 vs. 7.62x51 is a bit murky and really depends on the build of your rifle and the ammunition you're using. Short answer, no, shooting 7.62 NATO in a .308 chamber is no problem but confirm that with the builder you go with. Do a search, there's numerous threads on that very subject and many articles across the rest of the net.
As for the SHTF.... I'm not going there but please go ahead and read up on the 2012 thread.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Thanks for the quick response Redmanss. I'm not concerned about the 2012 hype. It's going to be just another day
Back on topic, I will be giving the good folks at GAP another call tomorrow. Saw the SHOT Show report on the GAP-10 and La Rue, mighty fine looking pieces of equipment. La Rue will also be getting a call. I haven't ruled out JP Rifles either but it seems that the favor is stacking up for GAP.
To BCP, would like to build one but don't have the experience or tools. Have to go the pre-built route. From what I see, by the time you add in a few upgrades, not including optics, price is a mute point between any of the quality weapon systems.
Thanks for the quick response Redmanss. I'm not concerned about the 2012 hype. It's going to be just another day
Back on topic, I will be giving the good folks at GAP another call tomorrow. Saw the SHOT Show report on the GAP-10 and La Rue, mighty fine looking pieces of equipment. La Rue will also be getting a call. I haven't ruled out JP Rifles either but it seems that the favor is stacking up for GAP.
To BCP, would like to build one but don't have the experience or tools. Have to go the pre-built route. From what I see, by the time you add in a few upgrades, not including optics, price is a mute point between any of the quality weapon systems.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
I don't think you could go wrong with a GAP if you have the $$$$$. As far as 762 vs 308 goes just make sure to tell them you don't want an overly tight chamber as some match chambers are tight and may have problems with mil brass.
Like I said though check out the LMT MWS:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1752509&page=15
Lots of happy people in there.
SHTF = buy it for what you are going to be using it for NOW, which probably means target shooting. If SHTF ever happens whatever firearm you have in your hands (as long as it is loaded and functional) is the right one.
I don't think you could go wrong with a GAP if you have the $$$$$. As far as 762 vs 308 goes just make sure to tell them you don't want an overly tight chamber as some match chambers are tight and may have problems with mil brass.
Like I said though check out the LMT MWS:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1752509&page=15
Lots of happy people in there.
SHTF = buy it for what you are going to be using it for NOW, which probably means target shooting. If SHTF ever happens whatever firearm you have in your hands (as long as it is loaded and functional) is the right one.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Made my 1st of 3 calls today and spoke with Albert of La Rue. He took all the time needed to answer all questions I had. La Rue OBR is a pure battle grade rifle. My concern with the weapon handling both the 7.62 and .308 rounds were completely dismissed. La Rue will handle both military and commercial grade rounds with no issues. He did advise me to stay away from the soft point .308 though as these rounds are typically fired from a bolt action and could, though not necessarily, impact cycling. What I really like is the turnaround time from the time order is placed and out the door is 3 days once credit card and FFL receiver paperwork has cleared, not bad at all. Tomorrow I'll call GAP and followup with JP.
Made my 1st of 3 calls today and spoke with Albert of La Rue. He took all the time needed to answer all questions I had. La Rue OBR is a pure battle grade rifle. My concern with the weapon handling both the 7.62 and .308 rounds were completely dismissed. La Rue will handle both military and commercial grade rounds with no issues. He did advise me to stay away from the soft point .308 though as these rounds are typically fired from a bolt action and could, though not necessarily, impact cycling. What I really like is the turnaround time from the time order is placed and out the door is 3 days once credit card and FFL receiver paperwork has cleared, not bad at all. Tomorrow I'll call GAP and followup with JP.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Here's another pitch for Armalite. Depends on what you want out of a rifle. For $1500 the A-4 flat top with FF handguard is a good value and surprisingly accurate.
For $3000 you can get the Super S.A.S.S with an adjustable gas system and all set up for precision shooting. Lifetime guarentee.
Gen 2 steel mags solved the issues that plagued them 10 years ago, their reputation took a hit for that.
Here's another pitch for Armalite. Depends on what you want out of a rifle. For $1500 the A-4 flat top with FF handguard is a good value and surprisingly accurate.
For $3000 you can get the Super S.A.S.S with an adjustable gas system and all set up for precision shooting. Lifetime guarentee.
Gen 2 steel mags solved the issues that plagued them 10 years ago, their reputation took a hit for that.
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Had great conversations with Ken of GAP and Ben of JP. Lead time on a GAP-10 is at least 4 month while JP is 4-6 weeks. I do like the side charging handle and the "extras" that the JP LPR07H comes with. Adding up the additional components not offered on the LRP07 is around a $4k weapon for $3200. Barrel life on the JP is around 12K-15K rounds. I guess you see where this is going, I'll be ordering a JP LRP07H very soon. Once received, I'll post pictures. Now the agony over glass.......
Had great conversations with Ken of GAP and Ben of JP. Lead time on a GAP-10 is at least 4 month while JP is 4-6 weeks. I do like the side charging handle and the "extras" that the JP LPR07H comes with. Adding up the additional components not offered on the LRP07 is around a $4k weapon for $3200. Barrel life on the JP is around 12K-15K rounds. I guess you see where this is going, I'll be ordering a JP LRP07H very soon. Once received, I'll post pictures. Now the agony over glass.......
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Noveske is selling 7.62 uppers again. I just ordered mine; might not be what are looking for if you want to shoot commercial ammo though. They say their rifles are designed and intended for use with high quality 7.62x51 NATO ammunition
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imc...ce=&status=
Noveske is selling 7.62 uppers again. I just ordered mine; might not be what are looking for if you want to shoot commercial ammo though. They say their rifles are designed and intended for use with high quality 7.62x51 NATO ammunition
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imc...ce=&status=
Re: Shopping for a quaity AR-10
Noveske stuff is very nice, just armalite pattern and a little expensive.
Noveske stuff is very nice, just armalite pattern and a little expensive.
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