Short Barrel AR's Why?

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RTH1800

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    • Sep 16, 2009
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    #1
    I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all.
     
    #4
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Don't you have a zombie defense plan!?

    What about when you're abseiling upside down inside a Mall after the apocalypse trying to get the last box of Twinkies... A long barrel carbine would result in almost certain peril - it's common knowledge.
     
    #5
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all. </div></div>

    I have an AR-15 with a 24" barrel and am going to cut it down to 18" because I only have available to me, at most a 500 yard range almost three hours away, and the fields for varmint hunting locally only reach around 600 to 700 yards. Since at best I am only going to be making shots within such ranges I will really have no need for the extra 6 inches. Also, the barrel is VERY stout and HEAVY so it should help with lugging the rifle. Oh yeah, and also I think it will look <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #CC0000">SWEET!!</span></span>
     
    #8
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Short barrel Ars are great for moving around in the woods hunting and easy to pack. I think my next one is going to have a 3 inch barrel on it?
     
    #9
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Define super short? Personally I prefer a 12.5 inch barrel on my ARs. I am a tactical shooter and like the maneuverability, light weight. Ballistics show that below 11 inches you see a drastic drop in velocity and energy. Tactically there are very few reason you need to go shorter than an 11 inch barrel.

    The flip side is anything longer than a 16 inch barrel (223/556) you are using the weapon outside of its means or you are really just utilizing too long of a barrel.
     
    #11
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 96C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't you have a zombie defense plan!?

    What about when you're abseiling upside down inside a Mall after the apocalypse trying to get the last box of Twinkies... A long barrel carbine would result in almost certain peril - it's common knowledge. </div></div>

    +1
    g
    Aside from the twinkie scenario, getting in and out of a Jeep, truck or working your way through brush during hog hunts. That's why I would have one. Oh, a 9mm SBR is a great home defense/training setup IMO.
     
    #12
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    I have shot .223 rifles for yrs, I like accuracy over velocity, have cut down many a rifle barrel, have always been a varmint hunter, love short barrels, I have a 16in. RRA A4 now for predator hunting, love it, don't want nothing any longer, it is loud but predators get the bullet before they get the noise, I have found short barrels are as accurate as long barrels, just not as much velocity, there is a simple fact when you drive up velocity you usually lose accuracy----some people love the longer barrels, I just like short and compact and with some tweeking you really don't give up much if anything---
     
    #13
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all. </div></div>

    I'm with the OP on this. I own a 24". a 20" and a 16" and feel no need to go shorter. If I want 22 hornet or 22 mag ballistics I'll use one and have far less muzzle blast.
    To each his own.
     
    #14
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom

    I will really have no need for the extra 6 inches[/i</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

    That's what my old lady says..LOL

    JR
     
    #16
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    With the correct comp., like a Noveske NX3 flash suppressor, you eliminate almost all the blast (noise), or redirect it forward. Also, the NX3 shoots a cone of flame forward, very cool at night. Right now, I have a Fabian Arms muzzle Brake on my 10.5 upper, and it's very effective, and no louder than a 16" barreled upper. My 12.5 LMT gas piston upper is perfect in size and balance.
     
    #17
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    from a sportmans stand point i see what your saying, but the longest barrel ar i have is 18" and it still can hit 12" x 12" plates at 700yrds and and if i need greater accuracy and longer range.. i can always grab my bolt action in .308.. both my work weapons are sbr's 14.5" and 12.5".. there still accurate out too 600yrds so why bother with 20"+ ?? no reason too..
     
    #18
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Shorter AR's are good for portability, maneuverability in cramped spaces..you lose a bit on exterior ballistics and they get a bit louder until you can it but MOST situations AR's are shot you don't lose a lot..
     
    #19
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Why not?

    _A156461.jpg


    And ballistically, it's not that bad with Hornady 75gr 5.56 T2. Pretty decent frag range.
     
    #20
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edwin907</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not?

    _A156461.jpg


    And ballistically, it's not that bad with Hornady 75gr 5.56 T2. Pretty decent frag range. </div></div>

    Damn you, that is almost exactly what my next build is going to be. Gathering parts now.
     
    #21
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all. </div></div>

    As far as I can see, no sportsman needs a rifle capable of killing people 1000 yards away.




    See how that works?


    the 2nd Amendment isn't about sports, Sport.
     
    #22
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuietShootr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    rth1800 said:
    I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all. </div></div>

    As far as I can see, no sportsman needs a rifle capable of killing people 1000 yards away.


    Or farther for that matter..... how about because most of us can have shorties.
    +1 the 2nd amendment!
    Click to expand...
     
    #23
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    I understand when people have a 11.5 or 12" barrel and then put a can on it. That takes the overall length of the barrel back out to 18-20". I do not understand people who have a 7.5" barrel and use no can. Other than it being extremely loud and only slightly more portable than a 16"....I don't see the benefit.

    Of course the shorties all have their place in MIL and LEO applications.


    ETA: I still wouldn't mind having a shorty though
    smile.gif
     
    #24
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Guys,
    Thank you for all the replies. I do want to clarify that I am in no way against the LEGALITY of the SBR, but the praticality of them is what I question. I enjoy my 16-20" barrels and hope you all enjoy whatever lengths you choose, and I am damm glad we have the right to choose.
    Thank you all again.
     
    #26
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    i have a 16 inch barrel and a colapsable stock on one of my ars. we have a coyote problem in our area and coyotes will follow a tractor when you disk. i keep that ar in the tractor when im in it because i can keep it colapsed and swing it around the tractor without bouncing it off everything and extend the stock once it gets out of the tractor to shoot the coyotes
     
    #28
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Home defense. My house has many corners and narrow hallways. Although I prefer to stay put in the bedroom there are times you may have to go search your house such as if another family member is downstairs and ends up coming into contact with the intruder. In my house a 16" carbine might as well be 10' long.
     
    #35
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    sorry to thread jack, but 338LM, what kinda loads are u running for your Leonidas?
    I've heard lots of mixed problems with going 12.5 on a .308.
    Is it jsut as reliable suppressed and unsuppressed?
     
    #36
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have a Zumbo in our mist. </div></div>

    Give the guy a break. He asks what they're good for, not why they aren't banned.
     
    #37
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    It is very reliable whether it is ran suppressed or unsuppressed. I have been running a pretty hot load of IMR 3031 behind 155 grain SMK's getting an average velocity of 2600 fps. Quickload shows this load getting a 99.8% powder burn. The Winchester brass and primers are not showing any high pressure signs.
    I have also ran Federal 168 and 175 grain match ammo and LC XM118 in it without any function issues. Prefer to use the 3031 though because of the complete powder burn.
    Have not shot a ton of rounds or any garbage through it yet. But so far it has not had any kind of a FTF or FTE. Very happy with it so far. I was smacking steel with it at 600 yards a couple weekends ago.
     
    #39
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frog5215</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have a Zumbo in our mist. </div></div>

    Give the guy a break. He asks what they're good for, not why they aren't banned.</div></div>

    Touché
     
    #42
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Guys,
    Let me make myself clear, my interest was my ears and termial preformance, not in any way restricting what you or anyone else CAN have.

    I was looking for pratical reasons I might want a SBR, something I had not considered? I hope you will consider the question in that light.

    I do not know how much more clear I can make it. If you are getting the preformance you desire from a 2" barrel, you should have one. Or two. Or...
     
    #43
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    rth-

    I, like you, own rifle length AR's. I've compared the chrono data with identical ammo from 7.5, 11.5, 16 and 20" uppers. Velocities from 2250-3275fps were seen as you went short to long.

    If I was keeping an AR in my car/truck all the time (not really a reality where I live) then a 16" with a collapsible stock or an 11.5" with a short suppressor on the nose would be an ideal truck gun.

    Lots of knockdown capability and precision compared to the pistol that I do keep with me all the time yet it's still highly portable.

    I understand where you're coming from, it's a matter of "should I invest in it, is the financial case there for me?" It's not a matter of "should I (or anyone else) really need to own one?"

    I'm an advocate of the idea that if you aren't a violent criminal (not just a felon, I'm talking some sort of violent crime) then you should be able to walk into the local shop and pickup ANYTHING from a revolver in 38spc through a G18 or MP5 or Solothurn if you want to.

    I don't own an SBR because I don't have a personal use for it and the costs involved in it are more than I can substantiate for just a cool toy.
     
    #44
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    bohem,
    Thank you, that is exactly where I was going with this. I quit carrying a 1911 .45ACP and went to a 16" collaspible with a Surefire can. I carry it on the farms, in the truck etc. I would guess I get a shot/kill, on average once a day, year round. (coyotes, crows, copperheads, rattlesnakes, various ferral animals etc.) I find it more effictive than any pistol and about as handy. When I get home for the evening, I carry it into the house and set it beside my bed. My AR's are working tools.
     
    #45
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    I think SBRs tend to be most attractive to people who've used AR platforms in work and prefer something a little more compact. Without a doubt, the SBR/suppressor combo is pretty easy to see since your rifle goes back to 18" or so. I haven't gotten my SBR yet, but when I do, it's for sheer handiness and running suppressed. Just personal preference. Oh, and I don't think you can ever discount the CDI factor when it comes to NFA weapons.
     
    #47
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rth1800</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been slow to use the AR type rifles, but now that I do use them in .223 and .308, I notice many want the short or super short barrels.
    I find all the AR's very loud, and ballistics suffer for sure. I can see a need for the SBR for a swat team etc, but why would a sportsman, shooter want one? Are they better for some thing I am missing or is it just wanna be's with toys? What are they better at doing in the real life of a non military, non LE? As far as I can see none at all. </div></div>

    Because at 35 3/8" with my AAC M4-2000 suppressor installed and the stock extended, my 10.5" LWRC 6.8 is shorter, quieter and hits harder than a typical 16" .223 AR.

    I've killed a 260 pound hog with my LWRC.

    Tax stamps are cool.

    SBR's are cool.

    Suppressors are cool.

    All that adds up to me being way cooler than you.
    grin.gif
     
    #48
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    The same attributes that make a SBR a popular/effective choice for urban CQB and room clearing type of stuff make a SBR one of the best choices for defending yourself inside your own home.
     
    #49
    Re: Short Barrel AR's Why?

    Take family on a remote location vacation. I have health insurance, Life insurance, car insurance and a 16 inch barreled collapsible stock RRA 223 under the back seat of the truck. It will be in a tac bag and stay there unless things go terribly awry. Sometimes the unexpected makes people forget their manners.
     
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