Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

[Shooter_308]

Hey all, so i think i finally found the pet load, or at least my accuracy node for my two rifles today after doing some grouping tests with varying powder loads. Basically what i noticed is the best group I shot out of one rifle (700 AAC-SD 1:10" 20"barrel) was putting 5 178gr AMAX's at half MOA @ 100 yards with the following load:

New Lapua Brass FL sized to 2.007" (all that size from factory)
Federal 210m Primer
42.0gr Varget
178Gr AMAX
COAL @ 2.800 / Ogive @ 2.177

But then i brought out my SPS-V 26" 1:12 with this load and managed to fit 5 shots under a dime:

Lapua Brass @ 2.007"
Federal 210m
38.5gr Varget
168gr AMAX
COAL: 2.800" / Ogive 2.177"

Meanwhile, at higher powder loads with the 168's i'm getting much wider groups around 1.75", but with lower powder charges and 178's i'm getting wider groups as well.

Am I missing something here? Unfortunately i do not have access to a Chronograph yet, so i can't give readings... I need to order one. Is 38.5 too light of a load? Overall i'm ecstatic with the results, just wondering what's going on here if someone could shine some light. Thanks!

 

[turbo54]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

What are the highest charges you've tried?

Seems likely you found a low node, and there is a higher node waiting for you to discover.

Is 38gr and a 168 too low? In a word, no. It does, however, leave a lot of performance on the table. For ranges out to 400-500 yards, no big deal. Past 400-500 though, some extra speed will be rather helpful.

ETA: I don't play with 168s, or the 178amax. However, I run 46.2gr Varget under the 178hpbt in my rifle (26") @ 2775fps. 46.7 is max.

 

[xray9]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Now, that's what I call "real shooting" Nice!

 

[1911GunNut]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I load 168gr Amax with 45.1gr Varget, Lapua brass, OAL of 2.84.

Every rifle/barrel is going to be different. I played with 178gr Amax, my rifle just didn't seem to like them very well. 175gr SMKs it does.

Personally if you're happy with the results at 38.5gr and they are accurate at the max distance you are going to shoot, then roll with it. Pushing to the max isn't always good, get a load too hot and you'll shorten the brass life.

 

[Helter]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ETA: I don't play with 168s, or the 178amax. However, I run 46.2gr Varget under the 178hpbt in my rifle (26") @ 2775fps. 46.7 is max. </div></div>

Is that published somewhere? Or did you determine that yourself for your gun?
I ask, because when I looked for it, I thought I had found 45.1 as being the published max with varget.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ETA: I don't play with 168s, or the 178amax. However, I run 46.2gr Varget under the 178hpbt <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">in my rifle </span></span></span>(26") @ 2775fps. 46.7 is max. </div></div>

Is that published somewhere? Or did you determine that yourself for your gun?
I ask, because when I looked for it, I thought I had found 45.1 as being the published max with varget. </div></div>

That is MY load workup. Others should start lower, and work up.

 

[HarryBallz2029]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I would have to say that 46.7 gr of Varget sounds high to me for any avg gun. I would recommend that you ladder test from 40.5-45 gr with varget for the 175-178 bullets. That is the most common area I see used here on the Hide. If someone disagrees please chime in here I am by no means a pro.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DirtyHarry2029</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would have to say that 46.7 gr of Varget sounds high to me for any avg gun. I would recommend that you ladder test from 40.5-45 gr with varget for the 175-178 bullets. That is the most common area I see used here on the Hide. If someone disagrees please chime in here I am by no means a pro. </div></div>

I completely agree.

46+gr of varget does sound high for 175/178.

46gr is what I load under a 155 Scenar in Lapua brass. Add another grain for Winchester brass.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DirtyHarry2029</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would have to say that 46.7 gr of Varget sounds high to me for any avg gun. I would recommend that you ladder test from 40.5-45 gr with varget for the 175-178 bullets. That is the most common area I see used here on the Hide. If someone disagrees please chime in here I am by no means a pro. </div></div>

~45gr Varget is pretty warm with ~175 bullets.

However, the 178hpbt handles a stiffer charge of Varget than a 175smk.

In the same rifle, 45.5gr with 175smk is hotter than 46.2 with 178hpbt.

Every rifle is a little different. Follow proper load workup.

 

[Shooter_308]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm not concerned with shooting out to 5-600 yards at the moment as my local ranges are longest 300 yards here...and that's only on saturday evenings in the summer. I usually shoot 200 yards so i'm not worried about putting that round at those distances. I noticed with the SPS-V shots worse with higher powder loads, but fine with the 38.5. Very strange.

Thanks for all the input. Maybe at a later date i'll try some hotter loads. But if i can increase the Lapua brass life keeping the charges low and accuracy high...i might stick to it

 

[Helter]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ETA: I don't play with 168s, or the 178amax. However, I run 46.2gr Varget under the 178hpbt <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">in my rifle </span></span></span>(26") @ 2775fps. 46.7 is max. </div></div>

Is that published somewhere? Or did you determine that yourself for your gun?
I ask, because when I looked for it, I thought I had found 45.1 as being the published max with varget. </div></div>

That is MY load workup. Others should start lower, and work up. </div></div>

Thanks, I was curious, because I still haven't found any max load published *specifically* for this round. I've found them listed for the type and weight, but not for this particular product.
The name of it is pretty annoying for that stuff too. It's tough to differentiate THE 178gr HPBT from any other round that is 178gr and happens to be a HPBT round. Why couldn't they call it the Hornady Match Queen? Or the 178gr Hollow Point Spectacular! Anything...
Just some name that doesn't also double as a commonly used descriptive term.

 

[Jim Buck]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

That seems low, but your barrel will last longer.

 

[Shooter_308]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I'm actually gonna try a 43gr load tomorrow. It gave me my second smallest group, so I'm gonna make sure the wideness wasn't shooter related. I am however content with longer barrel length.

 

[loki*hunter]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Very nice shooting..... you should be able to find a higher accuracy node but I look for the low node for ammo I use for short range 3Gun targets and home defense....looks like you are right on the money! There is something magic about 44-45 grains of Varget in my rifles (with my LC cases, #34 primers)...that may or may not work for you....

 

[TZS Gunfire]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I used 175 SMK with 43.5g of varget with Lapua brass and 210M and was averaging a 1/2-3/4 MOA at 200 yards

 

[USAF SP]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Very nice shooting. Hornady's 8th Edition Reloading Manual puts both your loads in the 2300-2400fps range. Certainly, all barrels are different but this gives you an idea of what you are getting.

At the distances you are shooting stick with the 38.5" load. The search for higher velocity will not likely get you any better results. Can your rifle duplicate the 38.5gr accuracy going 200-300fps faster? Maybe, but it's not needed for what you are doing at the present time. Save the money you would spend in load development and buy a chronograph. Once you start shooting at longer distances, the info gained from the chronograph will be well worth the expense.

Hog

 

[Shooter_308]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Thanks all, i went ahead and tried some higher grain loads, the rifle hated it. It shot "okay" at 43 grains, but nothing beat what i got at 38.5 so i'm just going to stick with that until i an shoot past 200 yards.

Hog, yea a chronograph and tumbler are next on my list. I'd like to be able to document FPS etc. Any you would recommend?

 

[Clark]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I tried for years to get a 1" 5 shot group at 100 yards that I read about on the internet.

I finally did it in 2002.

I remember the feeling, "I would not sell that rifle for $10k!"

But now I realize the key is figuring out what you did right, and what you were doing wrong before.

 

[USAF SP]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

I'm no authority on chronographs, but I use a Chrony Beta Master and it works just fine for me. Do a search on the forum here and I'm sure you will get plenty of ideas/opinions.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Magnetospeed

 

[MacM11]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Man, that looks like Lead Sled groups. If you shot that 'yourself', thats fabulous.
No matter what equipment you shoot, what loads you work up, etc.
the dude behind the gun has to make it happen.
Great shooting!

 

[725franky]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: targaflorio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magnetospeed </div></div>

Have you tried lead bullets across it? I haven't gotten them to work yet... Not that that is relevant to everyone.

 

[targaflorio]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Only copper jacketed bullets.

 

[Shooter_308]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

Macm11 - thanks for the kind words, those were shot by me. I do not use a lead-sled actually! I usually shoot sandbagged or off a bipod from the bench.

 

[Bayou]

Re: Shot my best groups ever today...have a question

If you don't have a chrony and want to know your muzzle velocity you can estimate it fairly well if you can shoot at longer distances. Zero at 100 yards then shoot a group at 300 and 600 yds without changing the scope settings. Then measure how low in mrads or MOAs the center of those two groups are from the point of aim. Finally look up the ballistics of your bullet with one of the online calculators like JBM and see what muzzle velocity matches up with the drop at those two distances.