Question for the bird hunters. Does anyone make a tracer round for shotguns? Don't laugh to hard and hear me out. I absolutely suck with a shotgun, like can't hit the broad side of a barn locked inside the barn. Ones I do hit is purely accident seems like. Just don't know where the heck I'm hitting, way to high,low,infront,behind. Theory is if I knew where shot is I would know which corrections to make. Any ideas or suggestions appreciated.
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Shotgun wing shooters
- Thread starter paulrem308
- Start date
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
- 20,404
Practice more, learn how your gun patterns and what chokes do what.
I would also take it and pattern it. You would be surprised how large of a spread or how far off bead some shotguns are
They’re pricey but see if you can buy or rent a shotkam. I just got a Gen 4 and have been using for pigeons in prep for goose season. I suck with a shotgun as well. But the first day of pigeon shooting I totally sucked.
Went back and reviewed my shots. So clear you can see the lead. Realized my faults and hammered them the next day. Helps you realize how far the target is away and what your leads look like
Awesome tool for training
Went back and reviewed my shots. So clear you can see the lead. Realized my faults and hammered them the next day. Helps you realize how far the target is away and what your leads look like
Awesome tool for training
yes a few make tracer shot shells, ficochi comes to mind, but your sure as hell not going to want to eat anything you hit with it.
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Have your eyesight checked.
I have been a wing shooter since the age of 5 years old.
Around 10 years old the writing on the black board got impossible to read.
At that point I started wearing glasses.
My wing shooting improved.
I have been a wing shooter since the age of 5 years old.
Around 10 years old the writing on the black board got impossible to read.
At that point I started wearing glasses.
My wing shooting improved.
Make sure you are properly looking down/along the barrel and put the bead right on the bird. That'll work 90% of the time for shots within reasonable distance and at moderate flying speeds. Once you get that down then you can work on leading the birds if they are really flying fast and not away/at you.
I went through this myself. Now every time i go out, I shoulder the gun and look down the barrel properly to engrain it into muscle memory before the real thing. Almost like making sure you are getting a good cheek weld.
I went through this myself. Now every time i go out, I shoulder the gun and look down the barrel properly to engrain it into muscle memory before the real thing. Almost like making sure you are getting a good cheek weld.
^^^this, there is no substitute for rounds down range when it comes to shotgun games and wing shooting. Busting clays is fun, enjoy the journey. When I was younger I would be disappointed if I didn’t limit out. Now I am just grateful to be hunting.
Put in a skeet choke and use #7 1 1/8 ounce loads, I started hitting twice as many dove and quail and knocking them down. A tighter choke with a lighter shot didn’t work as well.
Call it lack of skill but I call it more limits.
Fitting the stock pitch to you so it pulls up looking down the barrel vs across it helps a lot too though. But you can learn any gun with practice.
Call it lack of skill but I call it more limits.
Fitting the stock pitch to you so it pulls up looking down the barrel vs across it helps a lot too though. But you can learn any gun with practice.
This… pattern your gun then a shotkam will show you if it’s a lead issue. If you’re shooting a Benelli you will have to float the target as they shoot high.
This is huge. Some guns you cover with the barrel, some you cover with the bead, some you put the bead under.
Go shoot sporting clays. Informal practice where you can just shoot one station as much as you need to figure it out and focus on just a few stations each time.
Rule of thumb: if you miss, double your lead. If you still miss, cut it in half.
Don't stop your swing. This is what brought my scores from 40% to 80%. Gotta keep moving the gun while you pull the trigger. Sometimes it feels unnatural and wrong, but I even give the gun a shove down when I'm after a falling bird to compensate for the fact that the recoil will stop a down swing hard.
Pull the trigger where the birds are going, not where they have been.
Consistent gun mount, bring the stock to your cheek not cheek down to the stock, keep a head upright stance, don't roll over onto the stock
Proper head alignment to the center line of the barrel(s)
Do NOT focus on the bead, it's not a pistol foresight
DO focus on the target
Swing and follow through, don't stop as you release the shot
Move from your waist, and learnt to move feet to keep swing and follow through going
Pattern for correct choke / cartridge combo
Practice but consider a coaching session
Lastly - relax, it's an instinctive style of shooting, very natural, be target focused, don't over think it - it's not precision rifle
Enjoy it, all misses are frustrating but keep practicing
Proper head alignment to the center line of the barrel(s)
Do NOT focus on the bead, it's not a pistol foresight
DO focus on the target
Swing and follow through, don't stop as you release the shot
Move from your waist, and learnt to move feet to keep swing and follow through going
Pattern for correct choke / cartridge combo
Practice but consider a coaching session
Lastly - relax, it's an instinctive style of shooting, very natural, be target focused, don't over think it - it's not precision rifle
Enjoy it, all misses are frustrating but keep practicing
I would add not to be afraid to ask someone experienced to go shoot sporting clays or just gravel pit clays with you. I learned more in an afternoon in a gravel pit with an instructor in an afternoon that I had in years previous. That has paid serious dividends.
Keep your head up and bring gun to you, no your body to the gun.
Hire a coach! A good coach can save you a lot of time and probably money with the price of shells. They can watch and a good one can see where the pattern goes. They can also tell if your gun doesn’t fit - very important with a shotgun.
A ShotKam does help, but my biggest improvement came with a fitted gun and some coaching. I see you are in southern MS (Mississippi) so you may have to travel for a coach…I did.
if you have a good skeet range near by ask them.
A ShotKam does help, but my biggest improvement came with a fitted gun and some coaching. I see you are in southern MS (Mississippi) so you may have to travel for a coach…I did.
if you have a good skeet range near by ask them.
This!
I do sporting clays lessons regularly and far too many folks try to shoot a shotgun like a rifle. Look down the barrel, look at the bead, etc.
Pretty much anything that you learned about shooting a rifle is the wrong direction for shooting a shotgun well.
You dont need to know if you were over/under/in front/behind. you need to know why so that it can be addressed.
Other folks get wrapped up about chokes. You need 2....close and far, and as you become a proficient shooter you only need "far". Put the shot string where it needs to be and you will kill/break what you are shooting at
All of the choke changing from I/C to LM to Mod changes your pattern by inches.....but you are missing by feet.Have fun on the journey to better shooting!
@paulrem308 - to my answer your direct question (and not get into the huge subject of how to wing shoot w a shotgun), yes….maybe 25-30 years ago we tried some “tracer” shells. Can’t remember the brand.
Complete shit. Couldn’t see a thing. Dirty as f*ck.
By the by I agree with more open chokes like @spife7980 suggested. Me…I use IC most of all for quail hunting in GA and either IC or Light Mod for waterfowl.
And the key to shooting a shotgun has been discussed above. Vision is ALWAYS on the target and NEVER on the barrel. As soon as you glance at the barrel/check the lead your gun will stop whether you perceive it or not. Others can see it by looking at the stutter step of your muzzle when doing this.
Of course all of this is predicated on the gun fitting correctly and shooting where you are looking. An experienced shotgunned should be able to look at your gun fit and patterning is key or you have no idea where it’s shooting. Sort of like a rifle you haven’t bother to zero.
Best of luck.
Complete shit. Couldn’t see a thing. Dirty as f*ck.
By the by I agree with more open chokes like @spife7980 suggested. Me…I use IC most of all for quail hunting in GA and either IC or Light Mod for waterfowl.
And the key to shooting a shotgun has been discussed above. Vision is ALWAYS on the target and NEVER on the barrel. As soon as you glance at the barrel/check the lead your gun will stop whether you perceive it or not. Others can see it by looking at the stutter step of your muzzle when doing this.
Of course all of this is predicated on the gun fitting correctly and shooting where you are looking. An experienced shotgunned should be able to look at your gun fit and patterning is key or you have no idea where it’s shooting. Sort of like a rifle you haven’t bother to zero.
Best of luck.
Dumb advice
Practice what? Missing more?
He doesn't have a clue. He needs instruction. Lessons from a reputable instructor.
Do yourself a HUGE favor and pay for lessons from a reputable sporting clays instructor/coach.
Until you do that and understand really why you're missing, all you will be doing is wasting money on ammo and increasing your frustration.
Signed
A former NSCA A class shooter........
Because it’s utterly not the way to shoot a shotgun…well, unless turkey or deer hunting. Wing shooting? Never look at the barrel. We have hand-eye coordination that allows us to point at something (or more to the point in front of something) without looking at our finger. Same concept.
We don’t aim shotguns (with the type of exceptions I noted). We point a shotgun and the difference is not just semantics.
OP, I completely agree with the advice to get quality instruction. Otherwise you’re liable to spend a lot of money and time making holes in the sky.
All I know is i put the bead on the bird, shoot, and the bird goes down. Then my dog goes and gets it.
If it's going away that works some of the time
The second there's any crossing angle you will miss
I'll be sure to tell that to the dead pheasants in my freezer from last fall with #4 holes and teeth marks in 'em.
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,702
- 20,404
Unfortunately those aren’t made anymore, my brother loved them as the heavier payload would cycle his old Auto 5 which had the friction rings set up for gameloads. Many of the other loads were too light.
Well technically if you put the bead directly on the bird for anything other than a directly away shot you are going to hit behind it unless you have an open choke and a close shot. There are very few cases where you can get away with zero lead while using a shotgun on moving game and some of the hard angles out at 40+ yards require feet of lead.
Most likely you are subconsciously leading the target based on years of shooting experience but telling a new shooter to put the bead on the target is going to end in frustration.
While I may not be a master bird hunter or shoot clays every week I do average 80+% at trap with a 1940’s full choke Model 12.
Did not read all the replies.
I have shot international and U S competitive shotgun for decades.
The best advice is you need a coach. A good one can get your gun properly fitted to the extent you want to invest in it.
He will get you started correctly with foot placement, gun mount and movement.
It will save you thousands of dollars and cut years off your learning curve.
If for whatever reason you choose not to pursue that download some basic videos. Concentration on gun mount and gun fitting.
Do not waste ammo until you have solid fundamentals and a properly fitting gun.
This can be as simple and cheap as you want or as expensive as you want.
PM if you want to visit or have questions.
I have shot international and U S competitive shotgun for decades.
The best advice is you need a coach. A good one can get your gun properly fitted to the extent you want to invest in it.
He will get you started correctly with foot placement, gun mount and movement.
It will save you thousands of dollars and cut years off your learning curve.
If for whatever reason you choose not to pursue that download some basic videos. Concentration on gun mount and gun fitting.
Do not waste ammo until you have solid fundamentals and a properly fitting gun.
This can be as simple and cheap as you want or as expensive as you want.
PM if you want to visit or have questions.
I shoot Trap twice a week with former older competitive shooters.
The Skeet Field next to the Trap Field is always busy but Skeet is a multi position game with many angles to learn with Trap being far more simpler.
I was a lousy wing shot my entire life but I joined a Shooting Club about 10 years ago and the guys took me under their wing so to speak
Did’nt hurt that we all shot Kolar’s as we are in Wisconsin.
I would not dare to comment on what you need to do without meeting you personally, looking at your equipment, finding out your knowledge of shooting and safety and watching you shoot.
As previously Posted, you need a Coach and a good Club, good shotgun and you need to shoot at least every week if not more.
-Richard
The Skeet Field next to the Trap Field is always busy but Skeet is a multi position game with many angles to learn with Trap being far more simpler.
I was a lousy wing shot my entire life but I joined a Shooting Club about 10 years ago and the guys took me under their wing so to speak
Did’nt hurt that we all shot Kolar’s as we are in Wisconsin.
I would not dare to comment on what you need to do without meeting you personally, looking at your equipment, finding out your knowledge of shooting and safety and watching you shoot.
As previously Posted, you need a Coach and a good Club, good shotgun and you need to shoot at least every week if not more.
-Richard
Oh damn. Thaugt I would be the laughing stock of the hide for a day. Thank you all for replying. About half advice given I have tried. Thinking my best bet is proper instruction. Have to put that on to do list. Shot cams I might investigate. Anyway opening day in the morning. Might just f something up and hit one. On a side note, I have made peace with the fact I won't get a ticket for being over the limit from the game warden. Report back tomorrow.
Hope your opening day goes better than mine did. Had to work, but some locations near me logged 1.75” of rain!
. what self respecting dove would be out in that?
The advice about bringing the gun to the cheek instead of the other way around is just part of reactive shooting. You definitely need to practice this and you can start with a fixed target. Your hand/eye are able to work together to enable you to point EXACTLY at what your eye is focused on for a moment. This is the idea, you train yourself to point that barrel EXACTLY at what your eye is focused on. Look at a fixed target, quickly bring that scattergun up and pull the trigger. Of course, do that AFTER you have performed that task many times with an empty gun. Once you are hitting near center with the largest percentage of shot, start using a moving target.
If you take your eye off a bird, you are not going to get a hit unless pure luck.
If you take your eye off a bird, you are not going to get a hit unless pure luck.
The only people that become laughing stocks around here are the know-it-alls. Except in the Bear Pit, it can be a free for all there. There are some solid answers for you in this thread.
Only thing I would add: if you are a choke changer (some go crazy with this thinking it going to help the hits, it usually doesn’t), you need to pattern your load with the different chokes to make sure you still pattern well. It may sound illogical but I have seen it.
Also, Practicing on dove the first days of the season the blow the rust out of muscle memory isn’t going to work. There is a joke around here in my parts about shooting a box and hitting two on the first day for a reason. The dudes around here that know their stuff can take a day of thin flying and get close to the limit while the rest drink beer and call it a slow day. It kind of comes down to what you value more, making hits or just running around with a shotgun. They are not the same. What I am saying is that consistent hits equate to consistent, quality practice.
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You can tell who really understands the op's problem and who doesn't.
The ones that don't are all focused on gear or the minor details of technique.
I think some here have to realize to that we’re not talking about a guy who wants to be a top end clay buster. Same as the rifle forum, not everyone intends to shoot prs or similar disciplines.
OP is probably looking for a few quick tips to help him out. Probably like many of us with a shotgun and only takes it out a few times a year then hunts for a month or two off and on for pigeons, doves, ducks, geese etc. Then throws it back in the cabinet
You’re shooting from either just walking, from a layout, A-Frame or kayak etc. So your body and placements won’t be the same.
I get the fundamentals are the same. Some great advice above. But let’s be realistic. A guy like myself who pigeon or goose hunts a handful of times a year isn’t going to a coach and isn’t shooting clays on a weekly basis to prep for it. I simply shoot pigeons a few times at local farms and get tuned in doing that a few times. Then generally do decent in the field
I know some guys who are great at clays but can’t hit shit in the field. Different gun, no fancy vest, not on level ground yelling “pull” maybe I don’t know. Just because they can bust more clays doesn’t always mean it translates to them hitting more birds
OP is probably looking for a few quick tips to help him out. Probably like many of us with a shotgun and only takes it out a few times a year then hunts for a month or two off and on for pigeons, doves, ducks, geese etc. Then throws it back in the cabinet
You’re shooting from either just walking, from a layout, A-Frame or kayak etc. So your body and placements won’t be the same.
I get the fundamentals are the same. Some great advice above. But let’s be realistic. A guy like myself who pigeon or goose hunts a handful of times a year isn’t going to a coach and isn’t shooting clays on a weekly basis to prep for it. I simply shoot pigeons a few times at local farms and get tuned in doing that a few times. Then generally do decent in the field
I know some guys who are great at clays but can’t hit shit in the field. Different gun, no fancy vest, not on level ground yelling “pull” maybe I don’t know. Just because they can bust more clays doesn’t always mean it translates to them hitting more birds
This is a good point. But if one goes this route then the outcome should be satisfactory regardless of the results. I think the assumption is that he asked the question about getting better. To get “better” or “good” the path is the same.
Right. He sounds a lot like myself. Just got the shotgun out before goose opener here. Just looking to get better.
I went out several times now. Shot pigeons. That shotkam helped a ton. By the second day I was doing very well. Realized I wasn’t leading enough and birds were much further than I realized. Shooting cheap 8 shot
I just prep for duck/geese mainly. Hunting decoy spreads
It works for me. But again I don’t have enough interest to do the coach/weekly skeet shoots with a shotgun. I’m just not that into shotgunning to care. I just want to hit birds
Most everyone enjoys hitting more than missing.
Some basic shooting videos free from the internet could add many birds to the bag.
Good shots are good shots on most moving targets. I think the myth of I can’t hit targets but am hell on birds in the field is just that, a myth.
Fitting a gun can be done with tape, bondo etc.
Not fitting a gun is akin to taking your rifle on a hunt without sighting it in.
Lot of folks never do these things and some become fair or even great shots over time.
A logical approach can take years off the learning curve.
All up to the shooter.
Some basic shooting videos free from the internet could add many birds to the bag.
Good shots are good shots on most moving targets. I think the myth of I can’t hit targets but am hell on birds in the field is just that, a myth.
Fitting a gun can be done with tape, bondo etc.
Not fitting a gun is akin to taking your rifle on a hunt without sighting it in.
Lot of folks never do these things and some become fair or even great shots over time.
A logical approach can take years off the learning curve.
All up to the shooter.
Reviving a semi-dead thread here, but...
Are you able to recommend some good, free videos / tutorials online to learn the basics of shotgunning? I can of course search YouTube but I won't know good advice from bad,, necessarily. I figure to try it out a bit and if I enjoy it, get proper coaching to get sorted out.
Go visit your local skeet / trap shooting range and talk to the old guy's. They would enjoy having a conversation with you.
Find the closest sporting clay range that has instructors. You ideally want a Master class shooter but a good instructor is a good instructor. It will be the single best value you could make. You don't know where to start...so instead of wasting time and money and still sucking...get some instruction. It will pay dividends.
Or you can be like the Elmer funds in here who can't hit shit and have wasted a lifetime sucking at something that could be fixed in a few hours. Shotguning is instinctual but you need to know the fundamentals and a good instructor can make sure you don't have bad habbits.
Or you can be like the Elmer funds in here who can't hit shit and have wasted a lifetime sucking at something that could be fixed in a few hours. Shotguning is instinctual but you need to know the fundamentals and a good instructor can make sure you don't have bad habbits.
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