Should I build a .308win for training?

[Hippy_Steve]

I want to build a .308win to train my marksmanship. I'm aware of .308win's limitations, which is exactly why I want to train with it. I figure my deficiencies in my fundamentals will be magnified, giving me better feedback to improve on. Moreover, I'll be forced to make more careful observations reading cross sectional windspeed. I'll build this rifle on a gucci action like a Defiance or Surgeon, so upgrading to a more efficient bullet will only involve a barrel swap. Money isn't a primary concern at this time.

Can i have some feedback on my rational?​

 

[Supersubes]

Do you already have a primary/match rifle? What cartridge is it chambered in?

While building a trainer rifle is common these days, I don’t see the rational. For the cost of a custom trainer rifle, you could buy a whole lot of barrels and ammo for the primary rifle. You’d be exercising all the same fundamentals, and in the end be far more familiar with the primary rifle/cartridge than you would by straying to another platform during “training”.

 

[christopher.dow]

I just brought 308 back. I’ve been shooting 6.5 since April, and I think my recoil management has slipped. I think your rationale is sound. If you’re going Gucci, consider a Bighorn TL3. That way you can change the barrels yourself.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

I don't have a primary competition rifle right now, hence why I want to buy a nice action and grow into it. I'll still be able to take a .308 to local comps, I just won't expect to win anything. Hopefully with time, training and experience I take make shine the benefits that the popular 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges have to offer, and evolve my trainer into a comp rifle.

 

[SubOptimal]

I don't follow your logic there. Why not pick a caliber that is successful under current competition rules and strive to get the best out of the gun that you can? The 308 is still quite good and can easily be competitive. Competition is about the shooter first and the equipment last. By your thinking, you should really go with a 30-30 lever action with open sights and really give yourself no chance at all.
This is very much a mental game more than a physical one. Yeah, you probably should get in shape to handle the physical aspects but it strikes me as odd to go in your direction. You won't become a better shooter by handicapping yourself, you become a better shooter by overcoming mental handicaps and stress. This is a game of mental and physical discipline, the mechanics are such that doing everything right, shot after shot, is very difficult both physically and mentally.
When it gets down to the nitty gritty, there is only one shot and that is the shot you are about to execute. The past doesn't matter, the future doesn't matter, there is only the now. Learn to make that work and you will have this game licked.

 

[Subwrx300]

I agree with @SubOptimal. If you do not have a competition rifle and you have a specific budget, spend the money on the system that will allow you to practice AND be competitive.

You can still practice recoil control with any caliber and don't need extra recoil/limited range rifle to do that only so you can turn around to get a better barrel. If anything, you will get better using and learning a specific system/caliber without having to learn two systems (weighting, recoil, balance, trigger, reloading technique, related equipment etc)

If you already have 308 materials, then MAYBE it makes sense but that's just delaying the inevitable.

Buy/build the best rifle system in the most competitive caliber for your goals and then when your budget and time allow, add another fun gun to the mix for "practice". Cost to buy ammo or even reload 6.5 vs 308 are virtually the same so buy the better of the two and hold yourself to a higher standard during practice.

My 2¢ anyway. Good luck!

 

[Sheldon N]

If money isn't a concern, I'd build your comp rifle now and shoot out barrel after barrel both practicing and going to matches.

For a dedicated "trainer" I lean towards 223 instead of 308. Cheaper and easier to load for, more fun to shoot which facilitates shooting more often, and barrel doesn't heat up quite as bad so you can send more rounds in any given range trip. Yes, it gives up some energy on target and wind drift to a 6 or 6.5mm, but with a good 223 you can go to a club match and be very competitive.

 

[wilson1911]

You need to think more about the fundamentals of shooting....more so than being set on a specific caliber. 6/6.5's rule the roost now days. There is not really any reason to build a 308 unless you already have all the reloading equipment/bullets/brass/primers etc.

I do agree with building a trainer rifle....but not a second gun. With actions like the Bighorn TL3/Nucleus/Origin, buying a short action and being able to swap out boltheads/barrels....well makes it a no brainer. That being said...I have 2 barrels for a Defiant action and a barrel vise. Swapping out barrels is quite easy. Just get some gauges/torque wrench.
When you add in an action like the TL3, then not only can you swap barrels, well now you can go to 223 from 6/6.5 just as easy. So instead of having 3 guns that cost 7k each with glass....now you have 1 gun with multiple barrels/diff size boltheads.<---- this is the future of shooting. And now we have the Barlock also...no vise needed.

The 6/6.5's do shoot flatter than a 308, but that does not mean your going to hit your target. When I see guys making 90% of their hits on forums, I always wonder how much wind they are shooting with. Where I live, the wind blows 8-18 every day. Constantly changing. When I go to one of our monthly matches, It kind of goes like this......we have 5 ranges we can shoot from, 10 targets each...2 rounds per target. a couple are 300-500, while the rest are mostly 600-1250. So lets say there are 10 guys in each squad. You..yourself have a chance of making 20 hits on that stage. Most guys, myself included often come out with 3 or 4 hits. A good day is 10 hits....and this is with all of us shooting the magical 6/6.5 calibers. It's quite funny to see a guy face palm 2 stages, then clean one with 18 hits and win a match. Yet...its the most fun I have ever had in my life almost....

The wind is not your friend...it lies to you. Going to the range and not making any hits, does wear on you.

I would get a TL3/223/6.5, so you have some barrel life and still can be competitive with room for future upgrades. Then learn good shooting form and wind reading ability.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Go for 223 instead

 

[...]

.......what ever happened to the days when we used .22lr for training?......

yall want a bullet with shitty BC to practice wind calls and is cheap to shoot......theres nothing better.

if you can shoot a .22 well, you can shoot ANY centerfire rifle well.

 

[Skimafia]

I dont see why you shouldnt just jump into an AI MC. It opens up all sorts of possibilities. Easily configurable barrels. Its a gun you really wont ever out grow.
I did something similar with an AI AT. A simple barrel swap and zero adjust and I can shoot between a 6.5 and a 308.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I don't have a primary competition rifle right now, hence why I want to buy a nice action and grow into it. I'll still be able to take a .308 to local comps, I just won't expect to win anything. Hopefully with time, training and experience I take make shine the benefits that the popular 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges have to offer, and evolve my trainer into a comp rifle.

If you specifically want a .308 for some other reason and plan to shoot .308 long term then go for it.

However if that is not the case, I would recommend you build your rifle with something like a 6.5CM, then get a simple reloading setup & learn the round you plan to shoot with mostly.

While there is nothing wrong with training with a .308, if you don't actually plan to shoot .308 much, you would be doing yourself a much bigger favour if you get the cartridge you plan to shoot with long term (if it's in the same class such as the 6.5CM / 6CM etc.) The practice and fine tune your load and preferred projectile. Get to know it like the back of your hand.

If you like the chassis type, going with an Accuracy International AT or AX is a great idea as you get excellent reliability and quick barrel change options for different calibers / lengths / twists etc.

 

[Eustice]

I can see the benefit of building a .308 trainer to practice with if you want to relearn recoil management. It would also make sense if you want to then use it to compete in “tactical” divisions or to later have all the components to turn it into your primary competition rifle.

As far as building a trainer the advice to build a .223 or a .22LR trainer makes more sense. Way cheaper ammo but won’t help with recoil management if that’s the primary thing you want to help with. But .223 and .22LR will amplify how much you need to read wind.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

Good info everyone, thanks. I'm considering just going 6.5 creedmoor now.

 

[wilson1911]

Steve, Are you just starting in this adventure ? Are you already reloading ?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Good info everyone, thanks. I'm considering just going 6.5 creedmoor now.

Probably a very sound plan.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

Steve, Are you just starting in this adventure ? Are you already reloading ?

I'm just starting out. I don't reload because I don't have the time or space for it, but I do have access to a Dillon and a RCBS

 

[Spartan67]

Hippy-steve. If you really want to focus on learning how to properly shoot, go read the thread " Fundamentals of Marksmanship".
Then read it again 5 times...
To will learn more than you can possibly imagine with a good, quality .22lr. Its cheaper, almost no recoil, and demands proper fundamentals to shoot well, and dosent need a long shooting range.. I practice out to 250 yds with mine. Any flaw I have that day is very quickly exposed.
If you can make solid, repeatable wind calls, and holdovers with a .22lr out to 250yds, you can shoot anything.
As far a budget. You can go from less than $1000, up to what ever you want...
Good luck, and keep "em in the X-ring!

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Every firearm I own I train with. So, I've never been able to understand the whole trainer concept. 308 and 223 are standards and will make you shoot better and give you plenty of barrel life though. Also, don't take the current company language on 308 so literal. It is causing the current crop of new shooters to become recoil shy pussies when there isn't much recoil. Overbore and fucking brakes are trainers. So, just go straight to the Creedmoor and get it over with. .

 

[Deleted member 113831]

308 has 4 times the barrel life of anything "creedmoor".

Brass is cheaper and the cheap brass is better ( Lake City ).

308 is an extremely forgiving cartridge to load for, and there are 4 or 5 times more suitable powders, so less chance of shortages.

A 308 with a sleek 155 gives up very little to the 6.5 creed and if competing is your goal, you can shoot the tactical division with 308 and let the "creed" shooters and other wind cheaters fight it out amongst themselves.

Learn the 308 and you will be a better shooter for it.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

Hippy-steve. If you really want to focus on learning how to properly shoot, go read the thread " Fundamentals of Marksmanship".
Then read it again 5 times...
To will learn more than you can possibly imagine with a good, quality .22lr. Its cheaper, almost no recoil, and demands proper fundamentals to shoot well, and dosent need a long shooting range.. I practice out to 250 yds with mine. Any flaw I have that day is very quickly exposed.
If you can make solid, repeatable wind calls, and holdovers with a .22lr out to 250yds, you can shoot anything.
As far a budget. You can go from less than $1000, up to what ever you want...
Good luck, and keep "em in the X-ring!

I practice my fundamentals with my CZ455 out to 150 yards because that's the longest range I have within an hour's drive. I found another range that goes out to 1400, but it's private and I haven't been there yet. Next time I go out, I'll rezero my CZ455 so I can try to hit 200 yards. I guess I should look into a SFWA so I can dial in my ranges and wind too.

 

[Hippy_Steve]

Every firearm I own I train with. So, I've never been able to understand the whole trainer concept. 308 and 223 are standards and will make you shoot better and give you plenty of barrel life though. Also, don't take the current company language on 308 so literal. It is causing the current crop of new shooters to become recoil shy pussies when there isn't much recoil. Overbore and fucking brakes are trainers. So, just go straight to the Creedmoor and get it over with. .

I grew up shooting 300 winmag. I don't have an issue with recoil, I just a lack experience shooting past 500 yards. There's a reason why I posted in the "stupid questions" subform. I don't know what you expected.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

The sarcasm wasn't directed towards you though it may appear as such. I actually thought you brought up valid points. I always have an active 308 in my stable. I shoot it as much as the rest of my rifles.