Shoulder Pain In Prone

[MacBSG]

As some of you may have noticed, I have been having a few issues with prone. Mainly due to shooting bench for the past 3 years and not shooting prone.

I am having some back pain when in the prone position, specifically along the edge of my shoulder blade, both the firing and non firing side. Could anyone give some advice on how to prevent this, or is it typical?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I'm pretty new to learning prone myself but I'll take a stab at your situation. It sounds like you're not relaxing as much as you should. Try getting behind the rifle but don't quite touch the butt stock with your shoulder and don't move you head behind the scope. Just hole your shoulders up with your arms and elbows and get a feeling of what it's like. You may be only able to do this for a minute or two and need to stop and take a break. Repeat this until you start to become comfortable for several minutes at a time. Then try moving into the rifle with your shoulder pocket and move your head over. You may find that you need to adjust the height of the bipod and/or rear bag to maintain a more comfortable feeling.

Aside from this, if you're dealing with the 50's like myself, part of it might be just getting your bones and muscles to bend that way.

 

[MacBSG]

I'm pretty new to learning prone myself but I'll take a stab at your situation. It sounds like you're not relaxing as much as you should. Try getting behind the rifle but don't quite touch the butt stock with your shoulder and don't move you head behind the scope. Just hole your shoulders up with your arms and elbows and get a feeling of what it's like. You may be only able to do this for a minute or two and need to stop and take a break. Repeat this until you start to become comfortable for several minutes at a time. Then try moving into the rifle with your shoulder pocket and move your head over. You may find that you need to adjust the height of the bipod and/or rear bag to maintain a more comfortable feeling.

Aside from this, if you're dealing with the 50's like myself, part of it might be just getting your bones and muscles to bend that way.

Should I support myself with my elbows/arms?

 

[fx77]

Could be that your neck is hyparextgended in that prone posture, and U are experiencing cervical nerve root compression which may be referred to the muscles you describe..Get it checked out.

 

[wilecoyote]

no_ pain must NOT be typical _ relaxed is the opposite of painful_
yes_ you must support yourself with the elbows_mainly w.your non-firing elbow+sling_
before than a chiropractor, will consult a reputable shooting coach-instructor first

 

[pig2pa]

How old are you? I had surgery at 63 for this very same problem. I agree with fx77. If you google levator scapulae nerve it will shed a light on the problem. The muscle is of the same name and the nerve comes out of the C5 nerve root. it enervates the levator scapulae muscle and the Rhomboids.

 

[bh-ltr]

I was having pain in my shoulder while shooting and its because I have a nerve that runs along the top of my shoulder there that was very sensitive. After installing a kick-eez recoil pad and a Holland radial brake I'm now able to go through 400 rounds in a long weekend without complaint.

~Brett

 

[ShtrRdy]

Should I support myself with my elbows/arms?

Yes, for the most part. This is what you need to "feel" when you get into position without dealing with the rifle. Try to get an idea of what it feels like to support your chest and head off the ground. When you put the rifle into the act, it will help support your head when you rest your cheek on the stock.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

OP,

Initially, shooting from prone will feel unnatural, even when the position has been built properly. This is why observation by a highly qualified coach is advised to assure you will develop correct muscle memory from the start. Yet, with or without coaching assistance, first practice building the position with support from bone alone. This practice will help you sense when support, muscular relaxation, and NPA, the three elements of a steady position, have been properly integrated. Although tempting, starting out using a rest like a sandbag or bipod, will dull the sense of properly integrating the elements of a steady position; and thus, the support may only serve as a substitute for a proper position rather than an aid to it. The consequence is the sort of shooter consistency demanded for the best results is not likely to ever be realized.

With practice you will eventually feel comfortable. Comfort equals relaxed; and, being relaxed you will be cognizant of a consistent position. Having a consistent position shot to shot assures predictable recoil resistance, which keeps the angular relationship between barrel at rest and barrel while bullet is clearing it more alike than different to make shot groups smaller.

 

[MacBSG]

I think the cause of the pain was from being too low in my position with not enough support from my elbows. When I was in position I would be too low causing my shoulder blades to pinch in, thus resulting in the pain.

I have been working on using my elbows and bone support through my arms to stabilize and support my shoulders and the pain has not been an issue.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I think the cause of the pain was from being too low in my position with not enough support from my elbows. When I was in position I would be too low causing my shoulder blades to pinch in, thus resulting in the pain.

I have been working on using my elbows and bone support through my arms to stabilize and support my shoulders and the pain has not been an issue.

A position too low is caused by bringing the head to the rested stock rather than by bringing the stock to the head. First, shoulder the rifle bringing the stock to the head for a stock weld which supports sight alignment. Although it will initially point the rifle to the ground, completing the position by pushing the butt into the pocket formed in the shoulder and dropping the non firing elbow to where ever it falls naturally will bring the rifle to point at NPA. Then, by adjusting NPA by moving the entire body the desired sight picture can be realized with muscular relaxation maintained.

 

[MacBSG]

A position too low is caused by bringing the head to the rested stock rather than by bringing the stock to the head. First, shoulder the rifle bringing the stock to the head for a stock weld which supports sight alignment. Although it will initially point the rifle to the ground, completing the position by pushing the butt into the pocket formed in the shoulder and dropping the non firing elbow to where ever it falls naturally will bring the rifle to point at NPA. Then, by adjusting NPA by moving the entire body the desired sight picture can be realized with muscular relaxation maintained.

Should I then rest my shoulders down onto my elbows? Which in turn should bring the muzzle of the rifle up to NPA.

 

[wilecoyote]

Before you cripple yourself:
"Leather Sling and Shooting Positions" by M/Sgt. James R.Owens USMC (ret.)
Few $ for the little book or dvd of "Jahrhead", and somethin'good will happen,if you can't attend now to some real shootin'school_

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Should I then rest my shoulders down onto my elbows? Which in turn should bring the muzzle of the rifle up to NPA.

The shoulders should be relaxed. This is not a difficult condition to obtain yet some novice shooters will tense the shoulder to steer the sight to the target. This may also produce a high shoulder; and, since the sight picture is being maintained with muscle tension, inconsistent movement of the rifle, before the bullet clears the barrel, is assured, which will likely produce horizontal groups.

Your problem right now is knowledge of what's important to good shooting is not enough to get the desired result. Getting the elements and factors of a steady position in harmony takes a lot of snapping in. I don't think most " marksmen" have the interest or discipline to work on that. They do not think that such work is necessary; and thus, they will never reach the highest plateaus. But, make no mistake, the most important thing to good shooting is making contact between shooter, gun, and ground consistent from shot to shot, which minimizes shot misplacement associated with unpredictable recoil resistance. Make your position "Princess And The Pea" perfect and you will sometimes produce groupings where there is literally no measureable value between point of aim and point of impact.

 

[MacBSG]

The shoulders should be relaxed. This is not a difficult condition to obtain yet some novice shooters will tense the shoulder to steer the sight to the target. This may also produce a high shoulder; and, since the sight picture is being maintained with muscle tension, inconsistent movement of the rifle, before the bullet clears the barrel, is assured, which will likely produce horizontal groups.

Your problem right now is knowledge of what's important to good shooting is not enough to get the desired result. Getting the elements and factors of a steady position in harmony takes a lot of snapping in. I don't think most " marksmen" have the interest or discipline to work on that. They do not think that such work is necessary; and thus, they will never reach the highest plateaus. But, make no mistake, the most important thing to good shooting is making contact between shooter, gun, and ground consistent from shot to shot, which minimizes shot misplacement associated with unpredictable recoil resistance. Make your position "Princess And The Pea" perfect and you will sometimes produce groupings where there is literally no measureable value between point of aim and point of impact.

I understand what is important to good shooting, I have done a great amount of dry practice to attempt to get a consistent position. I am just having issues maintaining comfort for an extended period of time, I am maintaining muscle relaxation and not steering the rifle with muscles. I am 6'2'' with a 6'4'' wingspan and only a 32'' chest, so it is somewhat difficult to find a comfortable position.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

I understand what is important to good shooting, I have done a great amount of dry practice to attempt to get a consistent position. I am just having issues maintaining comfort for an extended period of time, I am maintaining muscle relaxation and not steering the rifle with muscles. I am 6'2'' with a 6'4'' wingspan and only a 32'' chest, so it is somewhat difficult to find a comfortable position.

You may know what is important, but, from your own admission, you do not understand how to do it. If that were not so you would not have a problem with comfort over an extended period of time as you alluded. Not having comfort means muscles are not relaxed. If they were you could maintain a position easily. You could, in fact, actually fall asleep in the position.

 

[kraigWY]

I have done a great amount of dry practice to attempt to get a consistent position. I am just having issues maintaining comfort for an extended period of time, I am maintaining muscle relaxation and not steering the rifle with muscles. I am 6'2'' with a 6'4'' wingspan and only a 32'' chest, so it is somewhat difficult to find a comfortable position.

To Quote Gary Anderson "There is no hopeless shooter".

There is a position for every body and every body style. Just got to find it. Preferable finding a good coach.

I know I'll catch flack for this, (seems I catch flack every time I mention slings but no biggie, I know they work.

If shoulder hurts due to recoil, let the sling soak up the recoil. It will if you give it a chance. SS is correct, YOU NEED TO RELAX. Relaxation is critical to good position shooter (or any other shooting for that matter).

Get you best position. Relaxed position, use the sling to support the rifle. As SS said, bring your rifle to your head. The left or supporting elbow should be as nearly straight under the rifle as possible. Then fall a tad to the right (assuming your a right handed shooter) and resting on your right elbow. Rest the head on the stock (keeping it straight) you should have a chipmunk look to your cheek. Now point at the target, close your eyes, breath NORMALLY a couple times, now at the bottom part of the breathing cycle, open your eyes and check you NPA. If you aren't perfectly lined up with your sights on the target (Natural Point of Aim), do not force the rifle, pivot using your belt buckle until you're lined up. For elevation move your support hand back and forth on the stock, to get higher elevation, slide your hand toward the trigger guard. to get a lower elevation, slide your hand toward the sling swivel. Adjust the sling to hold it there.

The sling holds the rifle, you don't. Now go back to a total relaxed position, with the eyes close, open them at the bottom of the breathing cycle and see where you're at. Again breath naturally. Shouldn't have to think about breathing at all.

Keep up these adjustments until you naturally fall back (after recoil) to a relaxed position, with a perfect natural point of aim.

Some people use the army man style of prone extending both legs out, not me, I'm more relaxed cocking my right leg up, taking the weigh off my diaphragm. Also helps recover from recoil in rapid fire.

Again, its best if you can find a good coach to help you. The Small Arms Firing School as provided at Perry or the CMP Eastern/Western Games would be best, if you can't do the SAFS then a CMP GSM Clinic would be second best. One taught by CMP GSM Master Instructors. These clinics are conducted all over the country. The CMP has a listing of the up coming clinics. The SAFS and CMP Clinics are quite inexpensive. I don't charge for the Clinics I conduct.

I know the Sniper Hide is mostly about Precision Shooting and about bipods, sand bags 'n such but try the sling, I think you'll find it works.

Edit to add:

I am having some back pain when in the prone position, specifically along the edge of my shoulder blade, both the firing and non firing side. Could anyone give some advice on how to prevent this, or is it typical?

Find a Coach.

In 1999, my wife came off a colt and broke her back, had two rods installed between her shoulder blades. In 2002 they removed the rods but because of the fuzzing of some vertebras she couldn't get into a prone position. No biggie, she hunts either standing or kneeling.

Come Feb 2003 she got activated (Army IRR) and like most back then was sent to Benning for pre-deployment training. Part of that training was qualification. We know the Army's qualification is mostly prone. She couldn't shoot prone.

I went with her to Benning and stayed with her until she left. Being an old has been retiree they wouldn't let me on the range to get her a prone position. So I stopped by the Army Marksmanship Unit for help. Told them my (my wife's) problem, and they said no problem. They sent a guy to the range, worked with her a bit, and she shot expert, no problems what so every.

THERE IN NO HOPELESS SHOOTER.

Your profile said Ohio, scoot up to Perry and sign up for the SAFS. They'll get you your prone position, and help your shooting across the board.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

OP,

I'll be coaching SAFS at Camp Perry. You may still be able to sign up. The event is July 27 and 28 with mandatory check in on the 26th. . As Kraig said, it would be good for you. Go to odcmp.com for details.