Shoulder won't bump but no feeding issues

[BlueWater]

Equipment:
Tikka TAC-A1 6.5 Creedmoor
Hornady brass - 1x and 2x fired
Trimmed to 1.915 after 1st firing (no need after 2nd)
Forster Full Length Sizing Die
Lee Classic Turret

Have the die/press maxed out and cannot get the shoulders to bump on 1x or 2x fired brass. I haven't shot the 2x fired brass loads just yet but so far no issues with feeding or sticky bolt.

Forster said I could send the die to them and have .004 - .005 ground off the bottom (after I asked).

Thoughts on leaving it alone until I have issues or is there something I'm overlooking? New to reloading for precision and am wondering if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Timo Turl]

It sometimes takes a few firings for the shoulders to max out and cause you an issue. It will eventually happen.

Are you trying to bump the shoulders or FL size ? If the former, you might consider the Forster bushing bump die. It will do a better job than using your FL die.

 

[FLIGHT762]

What lube are you using? If you don't have enough lube on the cases, they will NOT shoulder bump properly. Lube a couple with with you think might bee too much lube and see if you get any shoulder movement.

If you're using a spray lube like Hornady one shot, try something else like Imperial. If you don't have any Imperial, Mink oil boot dressing, chap stick, bag balm or synthetic motor oil will work.

If that doesn't work, you may need to send the die to Forster.

 

[Changed]

Two things:

First, ensure you have screwed the die down until you reach the ram. Then turn 1/8th turn more. This ensures you will have some cam over.

Second, try a different shell holder.

I would be far more apt to smooth the shell holder out on a piece of glass with some 500 and 1000 grit than to have the die fooled with.

Shell holders are cheap, buggered up dies are not.

 

[ophious]

I had a Dillon die do that.. (.308) Couldn't for the life of me bump it. Wouldn't chamber either. My headspace gauge showed it over max too needing to be bumped back big time. I ended up sending it back to them with a piece of brass I was trying to bump. The Die came back working that's for sure. Didn't look modified at all. Maybe I just ended up getting a bad die. Not sure. I would ship it back. Don't fight it.

 

[HoustonB77]

I had the same issue with my FL Forester 260 die . I tried different lubes and 3 different shell holders. None of that fixed my issue. I sent it in to Forster and had them cut the die down a few thousands. Problem solved. I also had the die honed while it was in the shop. Spend the $10 and have this done. It keeps you from overworking your brass.

 

[BlueWater]

Thanks all for the information. I'm using a Lanolin based spray on lube from a local reloading place. Forster did recommend trying a different lube and will be sending a sample.

If that doesn't do it, I may send the die in.

@TJC regarding FL size or shoulder bump, I thought I was trying to do both. Be gently, I'm new to really understanding the mechanics of rifle loading. I thought I'd need to FL size AND bump the shoulders. FL size to get the OD back down and neck retensioned, and shoulders bumped to get the headspace reset. I guess I'll be going back to that Bump vs Full Length sizing thread that's pinned up top...

Question remains, if I'm not having any feeding or extraction issues, should I just keep going until I do?

 

[spife7980]

Thanks all for the information. I'm using a Lanolin based spray on lube from a local reloading place. Forster did recommend trying a different lube and will be sending a sample.

If that doesn't do it, I may send the die in.

@TJC regarding FL size or shoulder bump, I thought I was trying to do both. Be gently, I'm new to really understanding the mechanics of rifle loading. I thought I'd need to FL size AND bump the shoulders. FL size to get the OD back down and neck retensioned, and shoulders bumped to get the headspace reset. I guess I'll be going back to that Bump vs Full Length sizing thread that's pinned up top...

Question remains, if I'm not having any feeding or extraction issues, should I just keep going until I do?

Your full length die will do it all (case base and walls, shoulders, neck) with the caveat that it needs to control the case sides all the way until it hits the shell holder where the necksizing-bump die doesnt. If your full length cant go low enough before bottoming out then the neck/bump die may be able to. But it could also maybe not. So I say forget that recommendation to get a neck die. You can keep running it like you are for now and hope but if you do that I caution you to test them as you load to avoid loading up a bunch of ammo that no longer chambers because it was only being neck sized and the entire rest of the case is oversize. With neck sizing only its not a matter of if but when your bolt wont close.

Trimming what little extra length may be in the die that desnt jive with your set up isnt a big deal for forster and would be the way I go if their recommendation to try their lube doesnt pan out. There have also been a couple people with this same problem and they found that moving to a non lee press fixed their issues: the lee presses were flexing more than the die could over come. New press and the old too long of a die worked just fine for them.

 

[mdmp5]

I have been perplexed for years with inconsistent shoulder setback. It wasn't a big deal, because everything chambered. However, I could never figure out how 2 pieces of brass run through the same die in the same setting could give different headspace measurements. Sometimes I would get the .001 setback I was looking for, and sometimes I would get a bit more, or actually zero. Then are the times where the shoulder actually appears to move forward or grow. After experimenting with it and reading a lot of your guys' posts, it does indeed sound like variation in lubrication causing the issue. In addition, I usually gradually size my cases with 1-2 short strokes up and down and then a final cam over. In doing it this way, the brass doesn't have that sticky feeling you sometimes get when lowering the ram

 

[padom]

How do you know your shoulders arent bumping back? You havent mentioned taking measurements with a case headspace comparator.

Do you have the Hornady Case Headspacs gauge? You took a 1x piece of brass, cleaned and deprimed it then measured it with the case headspace gauge in your calipers?? You then setup your sizing die to touch the shell holder then backed it off 1/4 turn? You then started sizing your case and measuring each time and turning the die down 1/4 turn each time measuring in between?

After doing this till you couldnt screw the die down any further you couldn't get your case headspace to measure less than your 1x case headspaced measurement?

 

[mdmp5]

How do you know your shoulders arent bumping back? You havent mentioned taking measurements with a case headspace comparator.

Do you have the Hornady Case Headspacs gauge? You took a 1x piece of brass, cleaned and deprimed it then measured it with the case headspace gauge in your calipers?? You then setup your sizing die to touch the shell holder then backed it off 1/4 turn? You then started sizing your case and measuring each time and turning the die down 1/4 turn each time measuring in between?

After doing this till you couldnt screw the die down any further you couldn't get your case headspace to measure less than your 1x case headspaced measurement?

If you are asking me, I use and have been using the redding instant indicator for close to 10 years now. It's the best way I know of to eliminate confounding variables

 

[mdmp5]

In addition, what I do typically is set my die to a slight cam over on the shellholder. In most cases from there, the .01 shellholder (competition shellholder) gets me the 1 thou setback. Rarely do I have to step it to .008 or more, but I think I ran into that one just one caliber I load for

 

[padom]

If you are asking me, I use and have been using the redding instant indicator for close to 10 years now. It's the best way I know of to eliminate confounding variables

No I'm asking the OP

 

[mdmp5]

No I'm asking the OP

Ah ok.

 

[BlueWater]

@padom Good questions and thanks for the digging. Responses underlined below.

How do you know your shoulders arent bumping back? You havent mentioned taking measurements with a case headspace comparator. Yes - using a Hornady Headspace Gauge.

Do you have the Hornady Case Headspacs gauge? Yes. Using this before resizing and after for comparative measurements.

You took a 1x piece of brass, cleaned and deprimed it then measured it with the case headspace gauge in your calipers? Yes. Also tried with 2x fired brass.

You then setup your sizing die to touch the shell holder then backed it off 1/4 turn? I started with the shell holder touching, then tried screwing it in another 1/8 and 1/4 turn per the Forster directions. No change from either. In fact in some places the shoulder grows ever so slightly. Consistent with not touching shoulder inside the die, no? No change You then started sizing your case and measuring each time and turning the die down 1/4 turn each time measuring in between? Yes, per above.

After doing this till you couldnt screw the die down any further you couldn't get your case headspace to measure less than your 1x case headspaced measurement? Correct.

 

[mdmp5]

Personally I have found it difficult to use calipers when relying on a measurement where .001 is very significant. It's the flexion of the jaws that throws me off

 

[padom]

Gotcha then it's time to send in a few 1x pieces of brass and your dime Forster will get it fixed.

 

[BlueWater]

I think you're right. Other than that I'm wondering if there's too much flex in the press but it would surprise me with a smaller case like 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I think you're right. Other than that I'm wondering if there's too much flex in the press but it would surprise me with a smaller case like 6.5 creedmoor.

That was going to be the next question I had to ask you. Press flex can cause your issue. Do you have your press attached to a solid bench / table? A friend of mine had this issue and had his press mounted to a flimsy table. After he reinforced the table, his issue was solved.

 

[BlueWater]

Bench is plenty sturdy. If different lube doesn't work my next cheapest solution is sending the die to Forster. Hopefully skip buying a press and keep my shekels for a Magnetospeed.

 

[Sheldon N]

Bench is plenty sturdy. If different lube doesn't work my next cheapest solution is sending the die to Forster. Hopefully skip buying a press and keep my shekels for a Magnetospeed.

If you're brave you can do it yourself. Put a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface like a mirror or piece of granite or whatever. Take all the guts out of the die and measure the OAL of the die body with calipers. Run the base of the die in a figure 8 pattern on the emery cloth, rotating your grip frequently. Measure with calipers and stop once you've taken off a couple thou of length. Clean the die thoroughly before using, you don't want any grit grinding between brass and inside the die body. Brake cleaner is a good thing for that.

I've done it a couple times with one of my Forster dies, works fine and only takes about 10 minutes.

 

[cwall64]

I’ll add that I had the same issue on a Forester die in the past, several folks on another forum had same issue at the same time. Seemed the dies were out of stock for a while, they became available and several reported the issue. Any other die I had (Redding, RCBS, etc) worked fine. I sent die back, they measured and said was fine, but had sent I 3 fired cases, so they went ahead and took a little off bottom and honed out at the say time. It works great now!

 

[Supersubes]

If you're brave you can do it yourself. Put a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface like a mirror or piece of granite or whatever. Take all the guts out of the die and measure the OAL of the die body with calipers. Run the base of the die in a figure 8 pattern on the emery cloth, rotating your grip frequently. Measure with calipers and stop once you've taken off a couple thou of length. Clean the die thoroughly before using, you don't want any grit grinding between brass and inside the die body. Brake cleaner is a good thing for that.

I've done it a couple times with one of my Forster dies, works fine and only takes about 10 minutes.

I’d personally rather do this to a shell holder than a die.

 

[Sheldon N]

I’d personally rather do this to a shell holder than a die.

I did it for a die that I was using on a Dillon press, so not really an option.

 

[Supersubes]

Good point!

 

[stereo.pete]

I had this same issue while full length sizing my 6.5 creedmoor brass. I absolutely could not get the shoulder to bump back at all no matter how far I screwed the die down. I'm using a Redding Type S bushing FL die and I'm wondering if my bench is causing some flex in the press, which is preventing the shoulder from being bumped. I'm going to take a picture and post it tomorrow when I get home from work to see what you all think.

 

[BigdaddyWSM]

I had same issue when I started to load for my 6.5,, as soon as I replaced my Lee press with a Redding everything worked fine. Lee presses ( at least my single stage ) have no camover apparently & I couldn't get it to bump back with any die. Tried 3 kinds.

 

[stereo.pete]

I had same issue when I started to load for my 6.5,, as soon as I replaced my Lee press with a Redding everything worked fine. Lee presses ( at least my single stage ) have no camover apparently & I couldn't get it to bump back with any die. Tried 3 kinds.

I’m using a Lee single stage as well.

 

[straightandtrue]

If you're brave you can do it yourself. Put a piece of emery cloth on a flat surface like a mirror or piece of granite or whatever. Take all the guts out of the die and measure the OAL of the die body with calipers. Run the base of the die in a figure 8 pattern on the emery cloth, rotating your grip frequently. Measure with calipers and stop once you've taken off a couple thou of length. Clean the die thoroughly before using, you don't want any grit grinding between brass and inside the die body. Brake cleaner is a good thing for that.

I've done it a couple times with one of my Forster dies, works fine and only takes about 10 minutes.

What number emery cloth? I have the same issue. Thanks