Sidearms & Scatterguns Sidearm carry

[merv1419]

Hi guys, I am interested to know what and how you military and police sniprs are carrying your sidearms (vests/droplegs).
I am a UK police sniper and currently do not carry a sidearm when deployed as sniper, but things are changing and we are looking at systems of carrying the SLP (Glock 17) whilst deployed.
Any help will be appreciated.

Many thanks
Merv

 

[ArmaHeavy]

Re: Sidearm carry

Not a sniper, but a former soldier nonetheless, and I went through what you're going through awhile ago.

Vests are the way to go in the long run, and it's part comfort issue, and part retaining your fluids, because thigh rigs will make you sweat eventually.

Hands down my favorite, as far as was a Safariland 6004.

In the end I went with a Molle holster to put on my vest, and I left it there. The Safariland 6004 does have attachments that you can add to make it Molle compatible.

In the end I went with a Spec Ops Brand Molle holster, simply because that was all that was available to me at the time(picked it up at the Army Clothing and Sales store).

It worked well for what I needed it for, but I would recommend some type of outside strap system to properly lash it down, to keep the play and wiggling of the gun and holster down when moving.

550 cord will work for that as a simple alternative, but there is a chance that the 550 cord will cut the Molle straps if you move around alot. The best alternative that I saw was using some Molle lashing straps to cinch the holster down to the vest, and keep play to a minimum.

For lashing straps I would say check either Tactical Tailor, or Kifaru.

Have a good one.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Sidearm carry

Again, not a sniper, but I do have a bit of experience carrying a primary and secondary weapon. I ended up liking the vest mounted holster the best because my transitions were faster (less distance to travel). The problem I forsee though, is that you'd essentially be lying on your sidearm if you are shooting prone as a sniper. When I shoot in competitions like the Sniper's Hide Cup, which mix long range "snipery" type weapons with sidearms, I go with a hip holster. The hip holster keeps the pistol out of the way when prone, but still easily accessable when you need to transition.
I've never been a fan of drop leg holsters because damn near every time I've seen someone use one, the holster flops around all over the place when they run. Sure you can tie it down better, but they will usually loosen back up, or they end up being restrictive and uncomfortable.

 

[pdogsbeware]

Re: Sidearm carry

The thigh rig moving around while running does get annoying. Some rigs are much better than others, but it's never totally eliminated. The advantage is while wearing a vest it doesn't get in the way yet neither is it bothersome while laying prone, and you Brits wear vests all the time, right?

A normal belt holster keeps the gun pretty high up and will get caught under a loose vest or plate carrier. I liked a mid-ride holster, it just hung lower off the belt, but not as low as a thigh rig. It kept it below my plate-carrier so that nuisance was dealt with, but also wasn't attached to my thigh so running didn't jostle it around. Plus less buckles and straps to put on and off (I'm lazy! haha)

These are just the first pictures I found to demonstrate the difference in the lower hanging height. There's still plenty of options as to what holster/retention type you prefer. Most companies now offer a mid-ride style.

 

[Zebra644]

Re: Sidearm carry

Merv, are you wearing anytype of vets either kevlar or load bearing vest? I wear a level 2A in a molle carrier and keep it clean on the front with just a couple of pouches on the sides. I use a Blackhawk Serpa Drop leg with the light system. If you are running hard and for a distance it does have a tendency to change postions on you. The Duty Holster Black Hawk makes has a drop / jacket slot to it so that it rides lower and allowes for jackets and such to fit in between the holster the the body with out any issues and if gives you a better draw. I hope this helps. I personally try to avoid anyhting on the front of my vest so if going prone it does not intertere.

 

[opshin556]

Re: Sidearm carry

Leg drops are meant for heavy vest deployment where getting to the firearm from a standard high ride, or lowride belt holster would be cumbersome.
For me it depends on my load out.
I run light and fast now, so for me a high ride belt holster still works.

or;

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Sidearm carry

Drop legs suck when crawling or laying.

If you don't have to wear heavy armor, then use a mid or high belt holster. If you roll with a ruck, then a mid or low shank Safarliland retention holster will work well.

STAY AWAY from the Serpa. As a Sniper there is a good chance you will be laying and crawling. The Serpas have a tendency to jam up when rolled in debris.

 

[Graham]

Re: Sidearm carry

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't have to wear heavy armor, then use a mid or high belt holster. If you roll with a ruck, then a mid or low shank Safarliland retention holster will work well.</div></div>Agreed.

Drop-legs just plain suck. That, and depending on the level of anti-armed political correctness in your particular UK department leg-drop rigs are often seen as too 'cowboy' for a 'proper' (looking) armed response.

 

[SigTauJohn]

Re: Sidearm carry

No experience with vest holsters but I would think if you were spending any kind of lengthy time laying on your rifle, a on the chest vest holster with a pistol in it would be quite uncomfortable.

I have a blackhawk thigh rig and it can be cumbersome with a lot of walking but its not too bad.

something you could look into is the quick disconnect system blackhawk makes. put it on vest when walking and move it to another location when in prone.

 

[kaspermj]

Re: Sidearm carry

In my experience don't put anything on your front. No mags, no guns, nothing.
The best platform i can recommend you looking at is a mollebelt you can attach a holster to.
But its really up to what options you are left with, due to department regulations.
Sometimes I carried my handgun in my daypack. It was highly unlikely that I would ever need it when moving. And when we had set up our position I kept it right next to my face, in case someone walked up on us.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: Sidearm carry

I have given my drop leg rig every chance under the sun to work and I have tried to make myself like it--and I still hate it.

 

[Go for Broke]

Re: Sidearm carry

Blade Tech IWB Straight Drop – a Kydex version of the famous Summer Special.

Sorry not very “TactiCool” is it?

Here is why:

Concealable inside the waist band with only a waist belt required.

Can be quickly moved from straight to cross draw as needed.

Can be moved slightly fore or aft for comfort if necessary.

Low profile and secure (by waist tension and Kydex molding).

In the US at least, it is likely that your choice in a duty (open carry) holster will be decided by agency policy, so you’re stuck with their choice. However, an IWB is typically considered to be an off duty or plain clothes holster and is not as heavily regulated as duty carry. Therefore you get a say in the matter.

I carry a Glock 22 for a living in uniform. My principal consideration for selecting equipment is my training and experience. I don’t train enough or have enough experience with drop leg or vest carry. I don’t want to get that experience during real life. Therefore, I suggest you stay as close as possible to what is “normal” in your world.

It sounds as if you and some of your mates might be relatively new to handguns so I refer you to this study:

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Stay safe!

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Sidearm carry

I would most positively and thoroughly recommend AGAINST an IWB Kydex holster for a Sniper's sidearm.

I could write a book about why not and I am just not that inclined, but the OP would do well to direct his attention to proven SWAT gear. I understand where your recommendation is coming from. However mine is coming from years of experience crawling around with a Sniper Rifle and Pistol.

Also, if you take a critical look at the study you cited, you will see it really isn't worth a whole lot.

 

[Go for Broke]

Re: Sidearm carry

Lone Wolfe,

Would you give your preference please? "Proven SWAT gear" is a bit vague.

I will stand by my recommendation as I see Merv's situation as being more Police verses Military. More urban verses more rural.

Would you expound on your assessment of the study I suggested?

Thanks,

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Sidearm carry

I gave my suggestion a couple of posts up.

Choose a Safariland duty holster. The 6004 is a standby favorite.

Regarding the study, would you select a duty weapon based on it's ability to get a violent attacker to voluntarily give up....or it's ability to shut down the body? The study count both as "incapacitation".

According to the study posted a .25 and .45 ACP are equally effective. This is a fallacy, pure and simple. Think critically about the results and you will see holes all over.

I have seen quite a few gunshot wounds in my career. I have seen .22's that were fatal and 12ga that were not. I don't have the patience or time to compose my own study.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.</div></div>

I have to completely and totally disagree with his conclusion. If you attempted to compile a study of how often the presence of a firearm stopped an attack, you could conclude that is doesn't matter if you carry bullets in your gun or not. We don't arm ourselves for the cooperative criminals. We arm ourselves for the ones that don't go down after several solid hits.

Based on 80% of the time I have carried a gun, it doesn't matter what gun I carried because other factors involved had a greater effect on the outcome. However, it only takes ONE TIME for me to not go home.

I carry either a 9mm or .45ACP depending on the job and threat level. I am not married to one or the other. In a VERY low-threat situation, I have even been known to resort to a .380. However I know the risks and I know that if I am throwing a .308 downrange, I better have a plan for when the attacker doesn't go down.