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Sidearms & Scatterguns Sig 320 full size
- Thread starter sabrecross
- Start date
Sig P320 X-Five. It's really nice of the box and can actually be left alone but what fun is that? Gray Guns has a competition trigger that is nice. It's not as nice as full blow gunsmith trigger job but fine for drop in parts.
I have the 320 M17. Great gun. Well balanced, shoot great groups and no issues so far. I do like the Xfive trigger better, ant go wrong with that either
I have a 320 carry that I really like, I put a full apex trigger kit in it and I'm planning on getting a fde x carry frame for it and getting it cut for an rmr.
If like like guns from a company notorious for putting out shitty weapons and constantly looking for ways to cheapen their products to increase profitability margin, sig is your huckleberry. And now you can have the honor of a pistol made with Indian mim parts. What's not to love.
And the best part is when (not if) your gun breaks you get the privledge of paying for shipping both ways.
At least clearing malfunctions will be simple; just drop it on the deck & it’ll fire. Probably out of battery too.
I had Robert Burke do a competition trigger job on my X5 and fitted up a Bar-sto barrel. It’s awesome.
OP , if you get one I think you'll be happy with it. Just look for a good deal. I picked up mine from Cabela's for $750 when they were $900. Then I seen them at Cabela's for $650! Talking about the package deals w/romeo1. By the way the trigger is just fine. GTG right out of the box.
Trigger is okay but then it’s a striker fired gun at full cock and no safeties. What could go wrong? And it’s very cheaply built as stated above.
I have a full size Sig 320. I also have an XDm 5.25, beretta 92, and multiple 1911’s. I really like the Sig. It is way better than the beretta and I shoot it as well as the XD. Glock fanboys here will hate on the Sig due to the m17 contract, but what do you expect. If you get the Sig, you won’t be disappointed.
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Sig makes a quality pistol, and the P320 is an excellent choice, though I would go with something in the X series.
Sig, Glock, HK, Ruger, S&W, and a host of other manufacturers use MIM parts made in India. Better get rid of them all.
This is complete BS. Sig sends you a shipping label for any pistol that you need to return for warranty work, IF you need it. They, like many others pay shipping both ways.
I have 8 Sigs, the first one bought in the early 90's, I have many thousands of rounds through them and have not had one issue with any of them, none of them have gone back to Sig for any reason. And yes I have other pistols as well, namely Ruger, S&W and CZ.
Bottom line, if you want a Sig, get one. The same goes for any of the others, want Glock, HK, CZ, S&W, get one, or all. They are all good guns.
I guess Bruce Gray is wrong then too.
You don't like Sig, fine, don't buy one. But let's be honest with the people who are looking for a handgun, Sigs are no worse than Glock, HK, S&W, etc. Pick a handgun that fills your need and one that you are comfortable shooting. For me that's Sig, for you it's something else.
You don't like Sig, fine, don't buy one. But let's be honest with the people who are looking for a handgun, Sigs are no worse than Glock, HK, S&W, etc. Pick a handgun that fills your need and one that you are comfortable shooting. For me that's Sig, for you it's something else.
I was never a Sig fanboy & I’ve never been a hater either. I’ve shot a couple P320s in compact & full-size models & I didn’t like either.
I didn’t like the grips but that is personal preference. I thought the trigger was sloppy, & while I never attempted to drop test the pistols, all the info regarding the weapon’s ability to fire upon impact hardly inspires confidence. The weapon will also fire out of battery. That is enough for me to lose any & all interest.
The fact that Sig actually rolled this pistol out w/ all these known flaws says something to me about their willingness to sell a flawed weapon. It tells me all I need to know, which is that I’ll never buy a SigSauer weapon. Ever. Period. If R & D didn’t identify these problems it still tells me that I should steer clear of their products.
I didn’t like the grips but that is personal preference. I thought the trigger was sloppy, & while I never attempted to drop test the pistols, all the info regarding the weapon’s ability to fire upon impact hardly inspires confidence. The weapon will also fire out of battery. That is enough for me to lose any & all interest.
The fact that Sig actually rolled this pistol out w/ all these known flaws says something to me about their willingness to sell a flawed weapon. It tells me all I need to know, which is that I’ll never buy a SigSauer weapon. Ever. Period. If R & D didn’t identify these problems it still tells me that I should steer clear of their products.
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The Sig 320 passed ANSI, DoD and a bunch of other drop safety tests. It was later found that dropping it at an exact angle could cause it to fire, and Sig has corrected that issue.
I've read accounts on the Internet of 320 X5's firing out of battery. In my 30 years as an LE firearms instructor I've not personally witnessed any Sig fire out of battery, though I have seen that happen in two Glocks, Gen 1 or 2, one S&W Gen 3 and one Beretta 92. I don't hate any of these pistols because of this, I still have a Smith 5906. I can't think of any production handgun that did not have some type of flaw at some point.
I've read accounts on the Internet of 320 X5's firing out of battery. In my 30 years as an LE firearms instructor I've not personally witnessed any Sig fire out of battery, though I have seen that happen in two Glocks, Gen 1 or 2, one S&W Gen 3 and one Beretta 92. I don't hate any of these pistols because of this, I still have a Smith 5906. I can't think of any production handgun that did not have some type of flaw at some point.
Everything I said is 100% factual. I dont need to convince someone with 1/1000th the firearms experience and accumen why they are wrong, but you are doing the firearms community a great disservice by putting out ignorant and uninformed statements.
You are ignorant to the history around these guns, the company liniage, especially SIG USA. You are ignorant to the issues that have plauged these products since SIG USA was stood up.
Want some hard truth? Smith and Wesson isn't much better. The M&P was a terrible pistol plauged with issues. It took 10 years before they even fixed them with the 2.0. CZ is the most overrated pistol on the planet. They are solid but nothing special unless you drop $2k Into a race gun. At that point how's it different than a semi/custom 1911 in the same price bracket?
Glock and HK make superior pistols to any of those mentioned. Despite Glocks issues with the gen4 rollout, they are the most proven combat pistol in history. HK has NEVER put out an unreliable pistol. Some may not like certain features or price points... But they just plain work. That's what happens when engineering , manufacturing and QC are equally important....not profit margin above all. The only other quality production defense/combat pistol worth owing is the Wather PPQ.
Some of us put quality and reliability over all else. Personally the most important thing is when I fire, it goes bang Everytime, even in the worst possible situations. I don't want to run thousands of rounds through a pistol before I trust it. I don't want to worry about frequent parts breakage because the company saves $.35 per unit by having a critical part made in India by fuckers without indoor plumbing. I want it to actually hit what I am aiming at. I want to be able to throw a gun in a glove box or drawer and 7 years later pick it up and it works flawlessly. I dont want to worry about cleaning every hundred rounds or having to change springs every thousand rounds so it doesn't malfunction.
So you think im wrong a out shipping? Go read your own warranty from them. Head over to arfcom and read the 10 page thread of people who all had to pay shipping for defective Sig's that half the time, came back just as fucked up as when they mailed them back. I guess you know a out the half a dozen guns I personally sent back to sig on my own time, becuase they refused to give me a shipping label ( which as a non FFL, is fucking expensive) . So please tell us how we are all wrong.
So you say you own 8 that are flawless? How many rounds down each one? You even shoot enough to hit the MRBF for them? I've owned much more than 8 Sig's over the years and the ONLY ones I still own say west Germany on the side. There is a reason they are the only ones worth owning. That's because their manufacture actually gave a shit about the end user and had pride in manufacturing.
SIG USA is nothing but a whore house who preys on ignorant and uninformed users. The only reason the army was dumb enough to adopt it was they bid HALF what Glock did. Contracting officer had zero choice with that kinda Delta even in a non LPTA procurement. They got smoked by Glock in reliability and durrability testing but that doesn't matter when pencil necks and politicians are making the decisions.
So defend your poor purchasing choices anyway you want. Just don't try and blow smoke up people's asses who know better.
You are ignorant to the history around these guns, the company liniage, especially SIG USA. You are ignorant to the issues that have plauged these products since SIG USA was stood up.
Want some hard truth? Smith and Wesson isn't much better. The M&P was a terrible pistol plauged with issues. It took 10 years before they even fixed them with the 2.0. CZ is the most overrated pistol on the planet. They are solid but nothing special unless you drop $2k Into a race gun. At that point how's it different than a semi/custom 1911 in the same price bracket?
Glock and HK make superior pistols to any of those mentioned. Despite Glocks issues with the gen4 rollout, they are the most proven combat pistol in history. HK has NEVER put out an unreliable pistol. Some may not like certain features or price points... But they just plain work. That's what happens when engineering , manufacturing and QC are equally important....not profit margin above all. The only other quality production defense/combat pistol worth owing is the Wather PPQ.
Some of us put quality and reliability over all else. Personally the most important thing is when I fire, it goes bang Everytime, even in the worst possible situations. I don't want to run thousands of rounds through a pistol before I trust it. I don't want to worry about frequent parts breakage because the company saves $.35 per unit by having a critical part made in India by fuckers without indoor plumbing. I want it to actually hit what I am aiming at. I want to be able to throw a gun in a glove box or drawer and 7 years later pick it up and it works flawlessly. I dont want to worry about cleaning every hundred rounds or having to change springs every thousand rounds so it doesn't malfunction.
So you think im wrong a out shipping? Go read your own warranty from them. Head over to arfcom and read the 10 page thread of people who all had to pay shipping for defective Sig's that half the time, came back just as fucked up as when they mailed them back. I guess you know a out the half a dozen guns I personally sent back to sig on my own time, becuase they refused to give me a shipping label ( which as a non FFL, is fucking expensive) . So please tell us how we are all wrong.
So you say you own 8 that are flawless? How many rounds down each one? You even shoot enough to hit the MRBF for them? I've owned much more than 8 Sig's over the years and the ONLY ones I still own say west Germany on the side. There is a reason they are the only ones worth owning. That's because their manufacture actually gave a shit about the end user and had pride in manufacturing.
SIG USA is nothing but a whore house who preys on ignorant and uninformed users. The only reason the army was dumb enough to adopt it was they bid HALF what Glock did. Contracting officer had zero choice with that kinda Delta even in a non LPTA procurement. They got smoked by Glock in reliability and durrability testing but that doesn't matter when pencil necks and politicians are making the decisions.
So defend your poor purchasing choices anyway you want. Just don't try and blow smoke up people's asses who know better.
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So it passed those tests yet still can drop fire? That says more about the inadaquacy of those tests and who administers them than the gun. So their suspect at their evaluation but we should trust their judgement based on flawed and inadequate testing?
Don't try and deflect blame to other issues with other firearms. Stick to the subject and address it
I’m not trying to shit on you or your thread, but I’m calling it as I see it. If you only drop at a specific angle it doesn’t seem genuine to me; drop it at several angles & see what happens. A standard test tells me that it’s safe at “X” angle. Great. What about the others?
I’n an instructor as well, though I have nowhere near 30 years on the job. I wasn’t on the range for a particular class, but we had an another agency training at our facility. My co-workers witnessed several out-of-battery detonations w/ a P320. That’s an officer safety issue in my opinion. I’ll take their word for it that events happened as they described.
I’ll pass on the P320. YMMV.
I’n an instructor as well, though I have nowhere near 30 years on the job. I wasn’t on the range for a particular class, but we had an another agency training at our facility. My co-workers witnessed several out-of-battery detonations w/ a P320. That’s an officer safety issue in my opinion. I’ll take their word for it that events happened as they described.
I’ll pass on the P320. YMMV.
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Oh and let's not forget Bruce grey....the authority on combat pistols.....who happens to be in SIGs backyard and is SPONSERED BY them.
He must be a real man of integrity unlike all those other sponsered shooters who talk shit about the company that employs them.
He must be a real man of integrity unlike all those other sponsered shooters who talk shit about the company that employs them.
You are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. My experiences are different than yours, you apparently think yours are worth more, whatever, I'll leave it to you experts.
Half of my Sigs say West Germany on them as well. I like the new ones as well as the old ones.
Half of my Sigs say West Germany on them as well. I like the new ones as well as the old ones.
Again #fakenews
I wouldn’t exactly call the U.S. Army uninformed users, but you do you man. You are right that the Sig bid was about half of what the Glock bid was and considering the $22 trillion debt, I’m glad they went with the lower cost pistol. The Sigs weren’t "smoked" by the glocks in reliability and durability. Both the Glock and the Sig exceeded the requirements. Paying twice as much for something that marginally performs better than exceeding said requirement is retarded. There were some requirements that the Sig put performed the Glock and not just on cost. The contracts officers would likely have been investigated if they awarded Glock that contract. It would have been criminal. The Sig won and it wasn’t even close. If the competition was so rigged, how did Glocks protest of the contract award go? Ooohhh yea, that’s right the GAO threw it out.
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For those who actually want data vs. internet conjecture. Both the Glock and Sig rated "outstanding" in initial reliability. Taken from the GAO report. So Primus, your 100% factual comments aren’t supported by the government reports on the subject. Care to share your sources?
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Let tell you a little secret... Government Contracting is what I do for a living. A scrubbed selection document is nothing more than the results matching the desired effect. Not to mention the RFP in the first place had the most retarded requirements and specifications, which usually means people who never even shot a gun in their life not only wrote the RFP, but were involved in the source selection process. MAYBE they got lucky with a few officers who put 30 rounds in an M9 twice per year for quals.... real experts there.
Over half of those factors are subjective and/or flat false. Sig has better manufacturing than Glock? ROFL. I could sit here and pick this apart but the bottom line is, look at the price. Flip the prices and nothing else and glock miraculously wins. In a procurement with this much press, they would never be able to justify the price difference.
In the end these are going to people who will most likely never shoot a gun on a two way range. They are going to POG's, MP's, and officers who are too lazy to carry a carbine/rifle while they be the best fobbit they can be..
They men actually using these in combat, will continue to procure Glocks and HK's like they have for the last 20 years. When you can buy whatever you want, unencumbered by silly things like the FAR and DFAR, its telling what the units use. Sig aint even in the equation brother.
So cool you found a GOA review. I have written opinions for dozens of DCMA/GOA responses and here's another little secret, they don't even know the law/reg/policy half the time. If they were even a halfass contracting professional, they would be working somewhere else making a lot more money and more autonomy. GOA is where the shitheels go.
Also, they will only address the challenge made under protest. For example. I say you are Blue but the paperwork says you are green. I challenge that you are blue. It turns out you are Sky Blue but since I never said that, I am wrong and selection upheld. Its also incredible difficulty to successfully protest. Contracting Professionals know the game and how it works. A large part of that process is making sure the documentation is in order to defend the protest. Its like a cop who plants evidence but still gets a conviction because hes not a moron. It doesn't mean he is honest or truthful. He just knows how to play the game.
Now if you want to see what REALLY happened. FOIA the raw test documentation and parameters. Hell request the footage from testing. Funny things happen when you can cherry pick results and careers are on the line. You ain't going to get that O6 or a Star unless your playing ball.
Over half of those factors are subjective and/or flat false. Sig has better manufacturing than Glock? ROFL. I could sit here and pick this apart but the bottom line is, look at the price. Flip the prices and nothing else and glock miraculously wins. In a procurement with this much press, they would never be able to justify the price difference.
In the end these are going to people who will most likely never shoot a gun on a two way range. They are going to POG's, MP's, and officers who are too lazy to carry a carbine/rifle while they be the best fobbit they can be..
They men actually using these in combat, will continue to procure Glocks and HK's like they have for the last 20 years. When you can buy whatever you want, unencumbered by silly things like the FAR and DFAR, its telling what the units use. Sig aint even in the equation brother.
So cool you found a GOA review. I have written opinions for dozens of DCMA/GOA responses and here's another little secret, they don't even know the law/reg/policy half the time. If they were even a halfass contracting professional, they would be working somewhere else making a lot more money and more autonomy. GOA is where the shitheels go.
Also, they will only address the challenge made under protest. For example. I say you are Blue but the paperwork says you are green. I challenge that you are blue. It turns out you are Sky Blue but since I never said that, I am wrong and selection upheld. Its also incredible difficulty to successfully protest. Contracting Professionals know the game and how it works. A large part of that process is making sure the documentation is in order to defend the protest. Its like a cop who plants evidence but still gets a conviction because hes not a moron. It doesn't mean he is honest or truthful. He just knows how to play the game.
Now if you want to see what REALLY happened. FOIA the raw test documentation and parameters. Hell request the footage from testing. Funny things happen when you can cherry pick results and careers are on the line. You ain't going to get that O6 or a Star unless your playing ball.
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Primus ,
That’s a long ass winded response that said absolutely nothing. You said the Sig reliability was crap, the GAO report disagrees, the Army disagrees. I’m able to provide evidence of that. As far as the requirements go, both pistols exceeded the reliability requirement. Other than running your keyboard on endlessly, do you have any data to post supporting your comments that the Glock blew the the Sig out of the water in reliability and durability? If not, just say so.
That’s a long ass winded response that said absolutely nothing. You said the Sig reliability was crap, the GAO report disagrees, the Army disagrees. I’m able to provide evidence of that. As far as the requirements go, both pistols exceeded the reliability requirement. Other than running your keyboard on endlessly, do you have any data to post supporting your comments that the Glock blew the the Sig out of the water in reliability and durability? If not, just say so.
At the end of the day this conversation is exactly like the old guys on the m14forum talking about how the Ar15 is a terrible semi auto rifle, it’s reliability is terrible, it’s killed thousands of soldiers, and it will never compete with the tried and true M14. Nothing will convince the old timers that the M14 shouldn’t be the standard service rifle of every army in the world. Not even data showing the m14 use around the world compared to the AR.
The GOA report did not address sigs reliably.
Sigs unreliability is fact. Indisputable. There is a mountain of evidence that proves this. I don't know what else can be said.
My knowledge was 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from those in the know, who said the procurement was a monkey show. People I trust who had zero reason to lie and no skin in the game. Just like the 10+ small arms procurements before this, they have all been goat ropes.
Glocks primary reason for the protest had to do with multiple awards. The second stated the testing was in essence bullshit, and should be redone under more transparent conditions. GOA denied both which doesn't mean they were wrong, it means the government investigated itself and agreed with itself.
There was alot of fuckery that went on with the testing and couple that with the requirements almost being written exactly for Sig, giving evaluation factors a huge leg up to sig before the procurement even came out (modular features, prime company makes ammo/accessories and a bunch of other retarded/pointless bullshit.). Combining the ammo into the order as well was fucktarded and just another way to screw glock out of the award.
My hunch is Sig was going to win no matter what the results of the testing. Like the dozen before this, if they don't like the results, they cancel the whole thing and start over. Thats how government procurement works. Keep rolling the dice until you get the numbers you want. If it doesn't go the way you want, say the funding dried up and start over new in 6mos/year. Couple that with the stupid low bid price (THAT WILL GO UP via change mods to make up the cost difference) and DoD end up with an inferior product for the same or more money in the long run.
If they actually cared about fiscal responsibility or reliability/durability, they would have just adopted the M9A3 as a product improvement under the existing M9 contract. How do you think the Navy buys the F/A 18 Super Hornet that is a whole different plane than the baby hornet without a new fighter competition? Call it the same thing but change 80% of it.
Sigs unreliability is fact. Indisputable. There is a mountain of evidence that proves this. I don't know what else can be said.
My knowledge was 2nd and 3rd hand accounts from those in the know, who said the procurement was a monkey show. People I trust who had zero reason to lie and no skin in the game. Just like the 10+ small arms procurements before this, they have all been goat ropes.
Glocks primary reason for the protest had to do with multiple awards. The second stated the testing was in essence bullshit, and should be redone under more transparent conditions. GOA denied both which doesn't mean they were wrong, it means the government investigated itself and agreed with itself.
There was alot of fuckery that went on with the testing and couple that with the requirements almost being written exactly for Sig, giving evaluation factors a huge leg up to sig before the procurement even came out (modular features, prime company makes ammo/accessories and a bunch of other retarded/pointless bullshit.). Combining the ammo into the order as well was fucktarded and just another way to screw glock out of the award.
My hunch is Sig was going to win no matter what the results of the testing. Like the dozen before this, if they don't like the results, they cancel the whole thing and start over. Thats how government procurement works. Keep rolling the dice until you get the numbers you want. If it doesn't go the way you want, say the funding dried up and start over new in 6mos/year. Couple that with the stupid low bid price (THAT WILL GO UP via change mods to make up the cost difference) and DoD end up with an inferior product for the same or more money in the long run.
If they actually cared about fiscal responsibility or reliability/durability, they would have just adopted the M9A3 as a product improvement under the existing M9 contract. How do you think the Navy buys the F/A 18 Super Hornet that is a whole different plane than the baby hornet without a new fighter competition? Call it the same thing but change 80% of it.
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For there being so much evidence you haven’t posted a single source or link. There are a lot who claim there’s a mountain of evidence that the earth is flat. After looking at their evidence, it doesn’t hold up in my opinion. Can you please post your evidence? I’d love to look through it. Thanks.
So, I have 1/1000th the firearms experience and accumen that you have. You know me personally then? I don't recall ever meeting you. The fact that you would make a statement like that tells me that the opposite is true.
I never once said that HK's were unreliable, just that they in fact contain MIM parts as do most pistols now days.
And it's OK for you to expound the virtues of Glocks while pointing out how bad Sigs are, but it's not ok for me to mention that I have personally seen some of these same issues in the pistols you regard so highly? Who's deflecting?
Instead of pounding your chest trying to convince everyone how much of an expert on firearms you are, perhaps you should consider the disservice you are doing to novice shooters spewing the crap you do.
I never once said that HK's were unreliable, just that they in fact contain MIM parts as do most pistols now days.
And it's OK for you to expound the virtues of Glocks while pointing out how bad Sigs are, but it's not ok for me to mention that I have personally seen some of these same issues in the pistols you regard so highly? Who's deflecting?
Instead of pounding your chest trying to convince everyone how much of an expert on firearms you are, perhaps you should consider the disservice you are doing to novice shooters spewing the crap you do.
And please post some data to support your point. I’d love to read through it to better inform myself.
You are being intellectually dishonest at best. Comparing outsourced Indian critical parts to ones manufactured in Germany by one of the most reputable firearms manufactures in history is just plain retarded. By that logic a Chinese scope is the same as a German Made one. They both are tubes of aluminum with glass in them.
Your statements and lack of understanding and knowledge make it clear you are not experienced as much as you think. You may think because you are around firearms that makes you an expert.
How many glocks are in circulation? How many sigs? HK?
What percentage of each will exhibit issues and malfunction?
You shoot long enough you will see everything break or an occasional lemon. It’s how often that happens that matter. So stop with the circle logic.
So stop the bullshit because no one who knows better is eating it up. For the guys who shoot 100 rounds a year out of their diamond plated scorpion legion edition, sorry if this offends you.
The truth isn’t always rainbows and sunshine.
I'm guessing the same applies to you.
You're right about one thing, the truth isn't always rainbows and sunshine. Do some actual research on reliability some time, not the rantings on forums, but actual reliability tests.
Talk about bullshit, it appears you would know.
I'm not the one who's offended. I've shot a few of the HK's owned by Sean Burrows, phenomenal weapons, I've also shot a few Glocks, and they are ok guns, I just prefer Sig.
Now I have have to take the 1/1000 of your knowledge and finish the lower I'm building for my 6.5 Grendel and do a detail strip and clean on a few Sigs from some of the guys at work.
A news article that was forwarded to me just a little while ago.
www.baynews9.com
Gun Model in Pasco School Officer's Discharge Has Troubled History
Sig Sauer P320 issued to Pasco Sheriff's Office deputies
www.baynews9.com
I read that a few days ago and thought about posting it here too. Didn't want to rub in the ass beating that already took place. It's bad etticate to be a poor winner.
This is the kind of information I asked you to post. Thanks Whitewalker for posting this. Interesting read.
Thanks again for posting. Do you know if there was any update to this? The sheriffs department claims it was holstered when fired which in my mind screams accidental discharge. Sig said it was their understanding that it was a negligent discharge, which is totally different? So which one was it? Do you know if the investigation found anything or if there was a report released?A news article that was forwarded to me just a little while ago.
Gun Model in Pasco School Officer's Discharge Has Troubled History
Sig Sauer P320 issued to Pasco Sheriff's Office deputies
I don't need to stick my head up a bulls ass to see a tbone, instead I'll take the butchers word for it.......or something alone those lines.
What do you think sig is going to say.....yes our guns are apiece of shit, the army fudged the trials, we know it was not drop safe and even 4 months before we released it commercially after we already fixed the dod guns, we still sold known defective guns on the commerical and LE market?
Anyone who knows sig is not suprised. That's the whole point of what I have been saying all along. This is the kinda shit they always pull.
Yet there are always people like you who respectfully, are not qualified to even have an opinion on the matter, yet want to argue something you quite frankly, don't have the ammunition to argue. It's incredibly frustrating because you haven't put in the time and sweat to learn these expensive and hard lessons but think your words hold the same weight as someone who is informed. Its unfair to those who are trying to learn and is why shitty companies continue to prey or ignorant buyers. It's a disservice to the industry. It's also why most of the real SMEs are run off the forums. You think they want to to argue with some dickhead who puts less lead down range in a lifetime then they will in a week.
Anyone who knows sig is not suprised. That's the whole point of what I have been saying all along. This is the kinda shit they always pull.
Yet there are always people like you who respectfully, are not qualified to even have an opinion on the matter, yet want to argue something you quite frankly, don't have the ammunition to argue. It's incredibly frustrating because you haven't put in the time and sweat to learn these expensive and hard lessons but think your words hold the same weight as someone who is informed. Its unfair to those who are trying to learn and is why shitty companies continue to prey or ignorant buyers. It's a disservice to the industry. It's also why most of the real SMEs are run off the forums. You think they want to to argue with some dickhead who puts less lead down range in a lifetime then they will in a week.
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I’ve had the pleasure of knowing and befriending Mr. Gray for the better part of 2 decades now. He is truly a wonderful human being, honest to a fault. To suggest that he lacks in integrity is not only wrong but disparaging and hurtful.
One quick question regarding your testing for high round counts:
Did you research or acquire the manufacturer recommended maintenance schedules for parts replacements as well as lubrication?
For example the HK rifles and pistols generally have a maintenance schedule for when the springs and other parts all need to be replaced, in their AR pattern rifles, the bolt and spring replacements are usually in the 20k or less range.
On your P30LS what ammo did you use?
The P30 and P30LS don't work well with light target ammo if your grip is anything less than very firm. Shooting the heavier / hotter ammunition usually fixes the issue (assuming you don't have a magazine problem).
Interesting, I've shot the P30 and P30LS both for several hundred rounds each from factory new in 9mm and .40 S&W and never had issues with either except with the light ammo on the 9mm if your grip wasn't fully tight. (Or just about ever other shot if limp wresting it).
I don't have nearly enough time to take the pistols into high round counts, so probably most of my collection is under 1k rounds except for a couple.
I guess you really must have gotten a dud, seems odd that HK didn't want to fix the problem or replace it.
I was a big fan of HK pistols, Right up till I got CZ pistols done by CZ custom and Cajun Gun Works, after that it was a bit hard to go back to the HK triggers.
I don't have nearly enough time to take the pistols into high round counts, so probably most of my collection is under 1k rounds except for a couple.
I guess you really must have gotten a dud, seems odd that HK didn't want to fix the problem or replace it.
I was a big fan of HK pistols, Right up till I got CZ pistols done by CZ custom and Cajun Gun Works, after that it was a bit hard to go back to the HK triggers.
Owned a 320 for about a year. It is a good firearm in my opinion. Mine has a romeo red dot and tritium night sights.
Pros
-reliable. Never had a single malfunction in at least 2000 rounds of various ammunition types/weights. 115gr, 124gr, HP's, FMJ, TMJ, etc. I keep my guns very clean though via my type A personality.
-Very accurate. I am more precise with the red dot but still much faster with opens.
-Decent after market support. Different grip modules etc. Last i checked you can get a xgrip module for a decent price. Good holster options and the likes.
-looks good. It is a good looking piece and is well made.
Cons
-The 320 in my opinion while smooth and controllable, has high bore axis. Nothing you dont get use to of course but something to note. For me its not about recoil its just about having that high and tight grip.
-The whole drop saftey issue. I did not send mine in to have it retrofitted. Its not used in "active duty", nor do I smack the back of it with a hammer (while loaded). None the less its worth mentioning.
-The trigger is not very good out of the gate. It has a peculiar spongy yet springy feel. Some polishing and break-in helps but it is still one of the worst out of the box triggers out of all my firearms.
In all I doubt I would buy it again. But since I have it I will keep it.
Pros
-reliable. Never had a single malfunction in at least 2000 rounds of various ammunition types/weights. 115gr, 124gr, HP's, FMJ, TMJ, etc. I keep my guns very clean though via my type A personality.
-Very accurate. I am more precise with the red dot but still much faster with opens.
-Decent after market support. Different grip modules etc. Last i checked you can get a xgrip module for a decent price. Good holster options and the likes.
-looks good. It is a good looking piece and is well made.
Cons
-The 320 in my opinion while smooth and controllable, has high bore axis. Nothing you dont get use to of course but something to note. For me its not about recoil its just about having that high and tight grip.
-The whole drop saftey issue. I did not send mine in to have it retrofitted. Its not used in "active duty", nor do I smack the back of it with a hammer (while loaded). None the less its worth mentioning.
-The trigger is not very good out of the gate. It has a peculiar spongy yet springy feel. Some polishing and break-in helps but it is still one of the worst out of the box triggers out of all my firearms.
In all I doubt I would buy it again. But since I have it I will keep it.
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