Re: Sig 522 Vs M&P 15-22?
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Posted: Yesterday 9:28:15 PM CDT on AR15.com, Rimfire and Pistol Caliber page
[Last Edit: Yesterday 10:36:55 PM CDT by frog5215]
The OP's question was whether a S&W, Colt, Sig522, or HK416.22 was what he wanted.
Here's my not too humble opinion.
I've been fooling around with .22 AR for several years, 6 or 7 maybe, after getting my Clark Gator (IPSC gun) . All the other kids had carbines and had been to Thunder Ranch.
I got a Ciener kit early and played around with it, and DPMS came out with their dedicated bull and M-4 (ban compliant) uppers, so I got an M-4. Ran that for a few years, made it work with the JP trigger in the Gator.
AWB sunsetted in '96 was it? or '94?, and I got to looking at theDPMS vs Ciener bolts, and decided the Ciener could be made to run with the DPMS barrel and newly re-available Ciener 30rd mags.
Somewhere in there I got a Kuehl Precision 20" A-3 dedicated upper. This was before Atchisson collars, which I believe Rick Kuehl developed (although that's how the DPMS dedicated set up worked, too).
Saw a article in On Target, a throwaway magazine at the gun shop I hang out at, and eventually got one of them. Actually, when I got that, interest in .22 conversions and dedicated uppers was exploding, so to avoid a 2-3 month wait, I ordered it without a bolt, just a collar, so I could put it in immediate service with the well broken in Ciener bolt I bought for the Gator. This was just after Kevin Rich started making the 30rd skinny mags, and was just developing the full body 27s, before the LSBHO follower. This was built on a 9MM upper, with M1S heavy CAR barrel.
A while later, Spike's Tactical started up the ST-22 program, and I got a 16" heavy CAR Lothar Walther.
Finally, about a year and a half ago, I decided I needed a REALLY accurate AR22 and sent some money to Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering for an 18" SPR barrel (M-261bolt, 'cause that's how Frank builds them).
Along the way, I've had the opportunity to shoot a few S&W M&P 15-22s.
Recently I picked up a (barely, like maybe just sighted in with a BSA red dot) used Sig 522 standard.
So, having established whatever bona fides the above gets me, here's what I have to say:
If you have an AR centerfire gun, and the .22 is going to be pretty exclusively for you, you will be best served with a dedicated .22 upper in a configuration of your chouce. As a hard core trainer, you can make it EXACTLY like your centerfire gun.
The best deal at present (or the near future) will be a CMMG dedicated upper.
CMMG's complete rifle gets right into the Sig/Colt./S&W price zone, it's milspec, it's a ****ed STEAL. No, I've never laid eyes or fingers on one, but the cenrterfire stuff is solid, the conversions run, and I wouldn't hesitate to drop my own coin on one.
No experience with the ATI?/Chiappa? $325 upper, but it looks like it should run.
A dedicated upper from Spike's Tactical is excellent; my LW shoots about 1/2" @50yd with excellent reliability.
Model 1 Sales, ditto
TacSol, I haven't shot, but the reputation is good for service, accuracy, and reliability.
Ballistic Advantage builds old school and modern uppers on premium barrels and uses Spike's bolts. No experience, but I wouldn't hesitate.
If you want a Service Rifle upper that can put 'em all in the same hole, Compass Lake is the place. $1100/upper.
If you just HAVE to have a complete separate gun, and have no requirement for a milspec configuration, the choice in my mind boils down to only two choices: S&W vs Sig.
If a smaller shooter will share, S&W's gun is lightweight and functions EXACTLY like a centerfire AR: selector, mag catch activation, take down, you name it. Milspec TRIGGER, so you can drop that Giessele right in there. Shoots great. A little flexy, so one hole @50 yd isn't likely, but it's up to and training, plinking, light target duty.
The Sig 522 has an extruded aluminum upper receiver joined to a polymer lower. The BDM mags (same as the Atchisson compatible milspec uppers and the KelTec .22) have the LSBHO followers, but no true locks open when empty capability, just like all the others except the S&W up until now. Comes without sights. I only have a few hundred rounds of mixed type through it so far (Fed 550 bulk, Fed 714 SV, and AutoMatch, but no failures of any kind).
Pop it open like an AR, the bolt comes out, easy to service/clean.
It's solid. There are some reports that the latch locking the stock folded can give up. This thing has a 3 position stock, and folded, it's 24" long, fitting well in a short discrete soft case with 3 mags in their separate pockets.
I strongly feel this Sig and the S&W are the picks of the litter in non-milspec .22tactical guns.
I have not shot the Colt, nor the HK416 .22. So take this for what it's worth. I have handled them, most recently yesterday at the gun show.
They're bolt made by Umarex, an airsoft manufacturer.
Both have an AR shaped exterior shell which contains the clamshell, longitudinally split inner receiver, the halves of which are held together with screws. To get the bolt out for detail cleaning you have to disassemble the receiver.
The Colt's flash suppressor has to be unscrewed to move the take down pins! It tensions them, and it's not 1/2x28tpi, though perhaps some metric adaptor will allow suppressor mounting.
The barrel is a thin sleeve within the cast outer shroud.
No aftermarket triggers.
Just peek up the mag well and all should be clear.
The S&W is quite a reasonable choice, especially if weight or price is an issue (threaded barrels ARE 1/2x28).
Sig is solid.
A guy would have to be an idiot to pass a CMMG complete rifle and buy the Colt or HK for the same or more money.
A good dedicated upper on a milspec lower is a joy.
