Sig Sauer quality control major fail

[datec]

Just purchased the new Sig p365 spectre comp and this is the quality control they let out the door I ended up with. Nicks in the barrel and something like lead or solder globs stuck like a bitch at the crown. WTF, below is their reply. Just pathetic, IMO they should be begging for it back to make it right.



Hello David,


This appears to be removable judging by the pictures and would not affect the performance of the firearm. I would suggest in the future that you use 0000 not 000 steel wool when cleaning finished metal as it’s a bit less abrasive. If you would like to send it to us for evaluation, I can still set you up with an RMA but I have had confirmation from others that they believe you should still have a perfectly functioning firearm.

We can discuss this further and your other questions when you are free.



Regards,

Customer Service Representative

 

[datec]

After an hour scrubbing and picking this is what we got. What would you do? Right now just keeping my temper and mouth in check but kind of expected more from Sig and better service for my $1300.

 

[Clob McStrunk]

That's not a good look for them. That said, the 'after' pic makes me think you've probably used your time more wisely than chasing it further with Sig. But then again this kinda thing happens because too few people really make noise about it when it happens to them.

I vote: spend the better part of tomorrow doing all you can to be a pain in their ass.

 

[MK20]

I would never, ever, buy a brand new product from a company like SIG who is known to use its customers as beta testers.

Give it a bit. Then it is cheaper too.

 

[plong]

Sig being Sig…

 

[Im2bent]

So as far as they are concerned as long as it's functional that's all that matters? When I buy brand new I expect it to look brand new. That's like buying a new car and it shows up with scratches in the paint and the dealer says hey it still drives.....

 

[srt-4_uk]

They said he could get you an RMA and send it back to them. They also gave you a way to clean it yourself in case it gets dirty again from, you know, actual usage.

This isn't like scratches in car paint. It's like a dirty windshield.

 

[datec]

Live and learn. Sig just made my shit list I won't buy another thing from them.

 

[datec]

The issue for me is if QC missed that obvious blob what else couldn't they see. Not to mention how did it get there in the 1st place.

 

[Lightning8]

SIG has so many versions of each firearm - probably time for the pumpkin spice SIG320

 

[datec]

I wonder if they fired one of their recalled rounds thru it and it blew apart upon exiting the barrel but fusing itself to the end has me puzzled.

 

[Im2bent]

They said he could get you an RMA and send it back to them. They also gave you a way to clean it yourself in case it gets dirty again from, you know, actual usage.

This isn't like scratches in car paint. It's like a dirty windshield.

Ok so lets make it orange peel you had to buff on for an hour, how is that better? As far as the rma god knows what the turn around time would be and I bet it would come back looking the same with a note that it shot fine.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Ok so lets make it orange peel you had to buff on for an hour, how is that better? As far as the rma god knows what the turn around time would be and I bet it would come back looking the same with a note that it shot fine.

It isn't better. Orange peel is a finish problem. The gun didn't have a finish problem. It was dirty. I agree, the RMA would have taken 100x longer than just scrubbing, which is probably exactly why Sig suggested it.

 

[datec]

They said he could get you an RMA and send it back to them. They also gave you a way to clean it yourself in case it gets dirty again from, you know, actual usage.

This isn't like scratches in car paint. It's like a dirty windshield.

Having globs of lead at the end of the barrel isn't like having a dirty windshield. I expect powder residue from the factory test fire not melted lead globs on the barrel. I had to use a razor blade and 000 steel wool to get it off, not cool.

 

[datec]

Here is another pic.

 

[datec]

Here's a pic of it in the slide before I got the garbage off.

 

[cas6969]

Is SIG soldering the guns together?

Was the test target 800 rounds of cast bullets?

 

[TurboTrout]

For their price point, that’s unsat

 

[st1650]

Rob Cohen.
Enough said.

How long until the next recall ? I mean "voluntary safety upgrade"

 

[srt-4_uk]

Having globs of lead at the end of the barrel isn't like having a dirty windshield. I expect powder residue from the factory test fire not melted lead globs on the barrel. I had to use a razor blade and 000 steel wool to get it off, not cool.

Not trying to be a smartass but is this your first handgun with a comp? You are gonna get lead buildup with any bullets that have an exposed lead base. It's a pain in the dick.

Sig missed it during QC for sure. No QC in the world is gonna catch everything.

 

[NiteQwill]

Sig is literally the worst customer service in the industry. When I asked about the blue tint in the 10k binos, they replied it was not blue and that it was my eyes.

 

[st1650]

Sig is literally the worst customer service in the industry. When I asked about the blue tint in the 10k binos, they replied it was not blue and that it was my eyes.

Now that’s funny.

 

[E. Bryant]

Sig missed it during QC for sure. No QC in the world is gonna catch everything.

Here's the deal - in the real world, "QC" isn't some dude in an apron and wearing bifocals that says "we're gonna look at everything real good before something leaves the factory, and maybe look at it twice, maybe even have someone pick off a few basic dimensions with digital calipers, and occasionally do a live-function test". Sure, that's sometimes the last step - especially if there is a history of customer complaints - but there's not much value to it because human inspection sucks.

No sir; "quality control" is at the tail end of a fairly complex and really quite boring string of activities under the "quality assurance" umbrella that is focused on defining what "quality" means (not as simple as it sounds), and managing the design and production process in a manner that prevents defects from being created in the first place (ideally), or at least preventing their escape (more typical). To the extent that measurement occurs, it really needs to be driven by solid design and process engineering that results in a set of critical characteristics (often augmented by significant characteristics) which, when maintained, ensure the creation of a quality product.

SIG has a long history of passing defects to the end user, which is prima facie evidence of significant QA/QC processes that goes way beyond "we didn't look at a gun long enough before it went in the box". I'm gonna guess that

Ultimately, the Japanese reached the conclusion that a large aspect of "quality" is defined by the customer. I think that the OP and I have different definitions as customers, and that's OK because we're each shelling out our own money. In my case, given SIG's history, I'd be happy that the thing didn't come with a recall notice in the original packaging. The OP wants something to come from the packaging spotless. SIG would be wise to respect both, and hopefully they're managing it via something better than dudes in lab coats and white gloves finger-fucking the guns before shipment.

 

[datec]

Not trying to be a smartass but is this your first handgun with a comp? You are gonna get lead buildup with any bullets that have an exposed lead base. It's a pain in the dick.

Sig missed it during QC for sure. No QC in the world is gonna catch everything.

SRT,
Yes it is my 1st with a comp. all the others I own are not and I have a few from many different Manufacturers. If this is what happens from a factory test fire, my understanding is they fire them with one round to insure it functions like it should. At least all my revolvers had one cylinder that had powder marks, mabey semi's are different correct me if I'm wrong. Either way if the end of the barrel is gonna get all that lead build up on it after even a couple shots that to me would prove to me to be a very dangerous and VERY unreliable firearm to bet your life on.

Like I said I am ok with powder burn as that shows me that they did in fact test it but to have globs of melted lead anywhere especially the end of the barrel.. totality unacceptable IMO and before I started cleaning it off I could feel it easily with my finger and snag it with my finger nail it was just covered in black spent powder.

 

[Aftermath]

Sig is literally the worst customer service in the industry. When I asked about the blue tint in the 10k binos, they replied it was not blue and that it was my eyes.

Are they bright blue eyes?

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

This year I have gotten an out of spec LMT upper that only fits half my barrels, seen an out of wack surefire brake (surefire confirmed this) that caused a baffle strike and a friend get a new mr556 that the muzzle device was so over torqued it damaged the gun removing it and HK actually admitted they screwed up. All of the aforementioned are major failures. A dirty barrel face just doesn't seem like a "major failure", however nor is this acceptable for a brand new new product.

The interesting part will be your experience using the gun. Go blast 500 rounds through it tonight and let us know how it fares. Brakes on any gun are going to cause increased fouling by their nature. It's probably not a coincidence that the areas of buildup in your pictures mirror the porting of the brake.

 

[CApighunter]

I bought a 938 Legion a few months ago that had the rear night sight installed backwards. Sig customer service took care of it very quickly.

 

[308pirate]

This isn't like scratches in car paint. It's like a dirty windshield.

Whatever that is on that barrel has zero effect on the accuracy and functioning of the pistol. It's nowhere near the crown.

 

[308pirate]

Either way if the end of the barrel is gonna get all that lead build up on it after even a couple shots that to me would prove to me to be a very dangerous and VERY unreliable firearm to bet your life on.

You've never had a compensated handgun but you know how dangerous and unreliable this one is going to be

LOL

 

[datec]

You've never had a compensated handgun but you know how dangerous and unreliable this one is going to be

LOL

My point is if this happened with a factory test fire it would continue to build until it either jams or stove pipes after shooting more then a couple. I will take it out and put a box thru it and have a look. The pic of the barrel in the slide is after I started to remove the mess when I first took it out it was worse and black with powder.
The only other thing I can think of is someone at the dealer or where he got it from took it out first and shot the crap out of it before I got the call it was in. I just don't know what went on before I brought it home.
If lead build up at the end of a barrel is normal for a comp gun (which I can't see happening but mabey you know better then I) then I would like to have known before hand I more then likely would have changed my mind, extra cleaning of the slide no biggie.

 

[srt-4_uk]

If lead build up at the end of a barrel is normal for a comp gun (which I can't see happening but mabey you know better then I)

Infinity Firearms

It is important that the compensator ports be kept free of buildup since excessive accumulation deposits in the ports, or use of incorrectly loaded ammunition, can interfere with the gas dynamics of the handgun and result in the bullet hitting the compensator port. Such buildup is inevitable if you are using bullets with an exposed lead base. For that reason, we strongly recommend that bullets with an exposed lead base not be used in any Infinity compensator equipped firearm. This is good advice for any compensated firearm, but is especially important for IMM Open Users.

 

[oso1]

I would not have taken possession of the pistol, I always inspect firearms before filling out 4473 and paying.

 

[datec]

Infinity Firearms

Srt, the ports not being clean causing issues I can see that creating issues but the pics are what the gun had on it the day I brought it home as a new gun not a used one. I know Sig has a recall on their ammo being loaded to dangerous charge levels (look on their site) I wonder if one of those were used to test fire it at the factory. If so they could have at least cleaned it properly once found unharmed or somebody else gave it a hard once over and put it back in the case before calling me to say it arrived and selling it to me as new. I just don't know I never had anything remotely like this ever happen. I would like to know who, if anyone, had it after it left Sigs factory mabey somewhere in there lays the answer.

 

[datec]

I would not have taken possession of the pistol, I always inspect firearms before filling out 4473 and paying.

Gave it a quick once over. From now on I will look closer, hind sight is always 20/20. Live and learn. I will take it out tomarrow now that it's clean and run a box of 50 mabey 100 thru and post the barrel pics before and after.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Srt, the ports not being clean causing issues I can see that creating issues but the pics are what the gun had on it the day I brought it home as a new gun not a used one. I know Sig has a recall on their ammo being loaded to dangerous charge levels (look on their site) I wonder if one of those were used to test fire it at the factory. If so they could have at least cleaned it properly once found unharmed or somebody else gave it a hard once over and put it back in the case before calling me to say it arrived and selling it to me as new. I just don't know I never had anything remotely like this ever happen. I would like to know who, if anyone, had it after it left Sigs factory mabey somewhere in there lays the answer.

You were saying you couldnt see how lead can build up. I posted it certainly can and will. No, a little lead on your barrel won't stop it from working. And with the generous clearances on your "comp" it likely never will either.

I get the pics are from a new gun. Sig likely test fired it. Your FFL may have even fired it. It didn't get completely clean before you picked it up. That's all. It isn't a conspiracy.

I'm betting your first email to Sig said something about unreliable pistol because it was dirty and that's why they specifically said it doesn't effect function. They made a mistake and sent out a dirty pistol. They offered to take it back and clean it for you. Offered advise on how to clean it when it happens inevitably happens again. Honestly, what more did you want?
I'm all on board for trashing a company that sucks but this is silly.

 

[datec]

I'm betting your first email to Sig said something about unreliable pistol because it was dirty and that's why they specifically said it doesn't effect function. They made a mistake and sent out a dirty pistol. They offered to take it back and clean it for you. Offered advise on how to clean it when it happens inevitably happens again. Honestly, what more did you want?
I'm all on board for trashing a company that sucks but this is silly.

Nope never said a thing about what your referring to. This is my CS request you can read it for yourself I removed my personal info from it in case you were wondering.

Hi David,



Thank you for contacting Sig Sauer.



I’m sorry to hear about the trouble with your barrel. Can you please forward some photos of the issue in question?



Thank you!



Lindsey Knight
Customer Service Representative
[email protected]

This transmission may contain confidential or privileged information which is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which the transmission was addressed. If this transmission was received in error, please inform the sender and delete from your system entirely. Any disclosures, publication or distribution of this transmission is strictly prohibited. Any information or quotes are subject to change at any time. Sig Sauer, Inc assumes no responsibility for any misconceptions, errors or misunderstandings. You are urged to verify any information that is unclear and report any errors or concerns to us in writing.


From: SIGSAUER-DO NOT REPLY <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2022 9:29 PM
To: Customer Service <[email protected]>
Subject: Custom Forms Notification

​ You have new submitted custom form. Customer Service Email Form form was submitted by which you can see by the following Submitted Data: � First Name David Last Name Phone Email Address City State / Province / Region Zipcode Product P365 Serial Number Question / Concern I just bought this p365 spectre comp handgun and noticed the end of the barrel was dirty and just thought it was from a factory test fire. I tried to clean it and it wasn't coming clean and once the black was cleaned off the area seamed to polish it appears to be something like solder blobs and also see a small knick on the outside edge of the barrel. I find this very disappointing that quality control would let something like this get through and passed on to the consumer. Please contact me with how this can be corrected. Thank You Dave Hidden Customer Service Optics Thank you, SIG SAUER!

 

[LawnMM]

 

[Poorboyr]

I have some dirty firearms. Maybe I can call the company and bitch to see if they will clean them for free.

OP, clean your firearm. Enough said.

 

[308pirate]

I have some dirty firearms. Maybe I can call the company and bitch to see if they will clean them for free.

OP, clean your firearm. Enough said.

LOL cleaning guns? What's that?

 

[hlee]

Op’s got more shit under his fingernails than on the muzzle of that barrel. Dirty muzzle? Talk about 1st world problems.

 

[Yondering]

Here's a pic of it in the slide before I got the garbage off.

Well, you bought the model with the stupid built in ghetto compensator. Comps build up a LOT of fouling. And I have no idea where you got the assumption that test fire was only a single round; did Sig tell you that?

Look at the clearances between the barrel and slide in that POS. Wow. I'm betting they did that specifically because of the fouling levels they expected due to the comp.

BTW for future reference, well-executed comps don't have holes large enough to fit the barrel through them. This one is a necessity of being slide mounted, but that doesn't make it good and does bring it's own set of problems. It's similar in concept to those "bushing comps" sold for 1911 pistols, although I'll grant that it's arguably a little more effective.


Also - dang fella, trim that thumbnail. That's nasty.