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Single load or magazine feed
- Thread starter Hawk45
- Start date
Re: Single load or magazine feed
I'm going single feed on my new 338 LM for several reasons.
Cheaper, no mags or bottom metal to buy
Less chance of deforming the bullet tip
You can seat to the lands without accounting for the mag length
I don't need a fast reload for ELR
I feel its makes for a stiffer receiver but that is debatable as several here feel it doesn't make a difference.
I'm going single feed on my new 338 LM for several reasons.
Cheaper, no mags or bottom metal to buy
Less chance of deforming the bullet tip
You can seat to the lands without accounting for the mag length
I don't need a fast reload for ELR
I feel its makes for a stiffer receiver but that is debatable as several here feel it doesn't make a difference.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
IMHO, fast reloads for precision shooting (probably at any distance), unless absolutely required under a particular Course Of Fire, can be less than optimal for best accuracy.
Hot barrels can lose accuracy and experience walking POI's. Often, the handload's performance can become incompatible with the actual barrel temperature; especially if it was developed under different, controlled conditions.
So there can be some reasons why single feeding may be preferable.
Greg
IMHO, fast reloads for precision shooting (probably at any distance), unless absolutely required under a particular Course Of Fire, can be less than optimal for best accuracy.
Hot barrels can lose accuracy and experience walking POI's. Often, the handload's performance can become incompatible with the actual barrel temperature; especially if it was developed under different, controlled conditions.
So there can be some reasons why single feeding may be preferable.
Greg
Re: Single load or magazine feed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed, shooting ELR distances doesn't require a fast reload - there's often enough time between shots adjusting for changing environmental conditions. Personal preference...</div></div>
I respectfully disagree.
If we define Extreme Long Range (ELR) shooting as being at ranges beyond 1,000-yards the best case first round hit probabilities are low. This necessitates the employment of a rapid follow-up shot.
Magazine feeding is the only way to deliver a truly rapid follow-up shot.
With some practice it is possible to have the next round loaded and the target reacquired before the impact of the first round. Upon observing the first round’s impact or from the spotter’s call the shooter can then apply the required hold and send the follow-up shot before conditions change.
It has been my experience in ELR that barrel heating is not an issue because of the inherently slow firing tempo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agreed, shooting ELR distances doesn't require a fast reload - there's often enough time between shots adjusting for changing environmental conditions. Personal preference...</div></div>
I respectfully disagree.
If we define Extreme Long Range (ELR) shooting as being at ranges beyond 1,000-yards the best case first round hit probabilities are low. This necessitates the employment of a rapid follow-up shot.
Magazine feeding is the only way to deliver a truly rapid follow-up shot.
With some practice it is possible to have the next round loaded and the target reacquired before the impact of the first round. Upon observing the first round’s impact or from the spotter’s call the shooter can then apply the required hold and send the follow-up shot before conditions change.
It has been my experience in ELR that barrel heating is not an issue because of the inherently slow firing tempo.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
I've watched quite a few shooters slop feed fast enough to stay up with the fastest of spotters, especially if the range is out past 600 yards.
Also seen a few shooters short stroke it due to keeping cheekweld and a little stressed.
Fed from the mag rounds are not optimal for out past 1000 yards if thats the definition we are running with.
As with most parts of precision shooting proper prior practice prevents piss poor performance.
Practice with your rounds laid out or in an open pouch. It doesn't take long to slop feed crazy fast. Some can even pluck the expended brass from the bolt face and lay it in front of the spotter to keep the round count, all before the spotter has told the shooter any correction.
Good luck
I've watched quite a few shooters slop feed fast enough to stay up with the fastest of spotters, especially if the range is out past 600 yards.
Also seen a few shooters short stroke it due to keeping cheekweld and a little stressed.
Fed from the mag rounds are not optimal for out past 1000 yards if thats the definition we are running with.
As with most parts of precision shooting proper prior practice prevents piss poor performance.
Practice with your rounds laid out or in an open pouch. It doesn't take long to slop feed crazy fast. Some can even pluck the expended brass from the bolt face and lay it in front of the spotter to keep the round count, all before the spotter has told the shooter any correction.
Good luck
Re: Single load or magazine feed
If we're talking seating depth, as was previously mentioned, single load allows one the bullets out longer (you can run them long in a DBM gun too, just as long as you load them one at a time). There is also an argument that single load makes the rifle stiffer and more accurate. I find this to be a stretch, as my mag fed bolt rifle is extremely accurate (.5-.6 MOA average). I prefer a detachable box magazine for convenience and have never felt handicapped in terms of accuracy, and I shoot out to 1400 yards just about every week.
If we're talking seating depth, as was previously mentioned, single load allows one the bullets out longer (you can run them long in a DBM gun too, just as long as you load them one at a time). There is also an argument that single load makes the rifle stiffer and more accurate. I find this to be a stretch, as my mag fed bolt rifle is extremely accurate (.5-.6 MOA average). I prefer a detachable box magazine for convenience and have never felt handicapped in terms of accuracy, and I shoot out to 1400 yards just about every week.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine feeding is the only way to deliver a truly rapid follow-up shot.</div></div>
I have to disagree with that. My LR gun is a Model 70 in 300WM. It's a single shot. It don't take any time at all to eject the empty, lay the round on the guide (I use a foam guide) and get back on target.
But that's playing at 100 yards, for distance I use a spotting scope to check for condition changes between shots.
Even as old and slow as I am, I can still lay a round on the guide while looking through the spotting scope.
I've noticed, if you're doing a lot of shooting with the magnums, even the mag well gets hot. I want a little better control of my rounds, I lay them in the shade until I'm ready to shoot, they're all the same temp.
Get one of those laser temp. gages, (where you point the laser at an object and read the temp). You'll be supprised the difference in temp. of the mag well between shots after the gun warms up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magazine feeding is the only way to deliver a truly rapid follow-up shot.</div></div>
I have to disagree with that. My LR gun is a Model 70 in 300WM. It's a single shot. It don't take any time at all to eject the empty, lay the round on the guide (I use a foam guide) and get back on target.
But that's playing at 100 yards, for distance I use a spotting scope to check for condition changes between shots.
Even as old and slow as I am, I can still lay a round on the guide while looking through the spotting scope.
I've noticed, if you're doing a lot of shooting with the magnums, even the mag well gets hot. I want a little better control of my rounds, I lay them in the shade until I'm ready to shoot, they're all the same temp.
Get one of those laser temp. gages, (where you point the laser at an object and read the temp). You'll be supprised the difference in temp. of the mag well between shots after the gun warms up.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
I usually feed my round's from the mag , I know a lot of people don't and single feed
Maybe I will try single feeding and see if it make's any difference to my shooting .
I usually feed my round's from the mag , I know a lot of people don't and single feed
Maybe I will try single feeding and see if it make's any difference to my shooting .
Re: Single load or magazine feed
Personally I like mag feed systems as I can shoot groups without disturbing my position or possibly changing my cheek to stock weld.
Granted with training and practice neither of these issues are a problem but why handicap myself unnecessarily.
Personally I like mag feed systems as I can shoot groups without disturbing my position or possibly changing my cheek to stock weld.
Granted with training and practice neither of these issues are a problem but why handicap myself unnecessarily.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
I prefer mag loading, which allows me to maintain position and shoot faster follow up shots before wind conditions change.
I prefer mag loading, which allows me to maintain position and shoot faster follow up shots before wind conditions change.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
Having just gotten back from a very well regarded ELR school, their opinion is most definitely: have a magazine.
Follow up shots while on the scope, before wind conditions change, are extremely important, if you want to really hit steel or moving targets in a minimal number of shots taken. I suffered in the class due to single feeding because my Remington 700 .308 would not feed from the internal mag, probably due to longer than necessary seating lengths. Yes you can learn to single feed pretty fast, but then you are only doing that which a magazine would help you do even faster.
As far as seating depths, on my 338LM rifle, I found that in order to use the integral mag, I had to seat the bullets deeper/closer to a regular box of Lapua factory ammo... guess what. The MV's got super consistent - that was the topic of another thread where others have discovered that this conventional knowledge of seating close to the lands is not a panacea to accurate shooting. I shot these deep seated rounds out to 1600 yards with quite satisfactory results.
Having just gotten back from a very well regarded ELR school, their opinion is most definitely: have a magazine.
Follow up shots while on the scope, before wind conditions change, are extremely important, if you want to really hit steel or moving targets in a minimal number of shots taken. I suffered in the class due to single feeding because my Remington 700 .308 would not feed from the internal mag, probably due to longer than necessary seating lengths. Yes you can learn to single feed pretty fast, but then you are only doing that which a magazine would help you do even faster.
As far as seating depths, on my 338LM rifle, I found that in order to use the integral mag, I had to seat the bullets deeper/closer to a regular box of Lapua factory ammo... guess what. The MV's got super consistent - that was the topic of another thread where others have discovered that this conventional knowledge of seating close to the lands is not a panacea to accurate shooting. I shot these deep seated rounds out to 1600 yards with quite satisfactory results.
Re: Single load or magazine feed
I myself, will always have repeaters that have the cabailities of 3 rounds or more. Maqs are my choice. My seating depths have never been in the lands. Most are in the 20-30 thou range out or more. I had a Senduro in 7 RUM that would shoot 1 hole at 150 yards with 3/8 of an inch freebore!
I myself, will always have repeaters that have the cabailities of 3 rounds or more. Maqs are my choice. My seating depths have never been in the lands. Most are in the 20-30 thou range out or more. I had a Senduro in 7 RUM that would shoot 1 hole at 150 yards with 3/8 of an inch freebore!
