Single Loading AR 10 for Accuracy

[GotGoodGroups]

This might come across as a really dumb question but I wanted to get some opinions.

If your goal is to shoot the best group you can, will loading only 1 round into the magazine at a time, produce better accuracy?

Questionable Theory on This?

When you charge an AR style gun it is the spring chambering the round. If you put multiple rounds in a magazine, after the first round the subsequent rounds get loaded by the bolt slamming back into the spring and then bouncing forward. I imagine there is a lot more force when a semi loads a round compared to a bolt action rifle. As you know, thousands of an inch matter when it comes to accuracy. I imagine the violent way a round gets loaded in a semi-auto gun could theoretically move the bullet or seat it slightly different in the chamber. I am wondering if a very slight lack of consistency, could hamper group size at all.

As most have you have seen on the websites of manufacturers, the AR15's almost always promise better accuracy than the AR10's My theory there, is that with the 15, due to their being less powder involved, the loading of the next round is less violent / forceful; in other words slightly closer to the spring loading the round.

Comments?

 

[damoncali]

Don't know. I've never noticed a difference when single loading. But I do know that single loading lets you use longer than mag length high-BC bullets, which is a good thing.

 

[ORD]

If you want to single-feed...get a singe-shot rifle or a bolt action for heaven's sake and "baby" your ammo all you want to ( ), but doing so with a semi-auto is just rather silly and unnecessary by in large unless it is done in order to load ammo that will not otherwise fit/function from the magazine (like 80gr+ loads in throated AR-15 match guns for use at extended ranges in comps as one example...there are others, but that's a prime example of when single-feed comes into play for a legitimate reason).

Aside from that...you are only somewhat correct in your premise that some semi-autos can and do wreak havoc on some ammunition which can lead to accuracy woes. It isn't just by virtue of how the rifle operates, but a function of many semis being overgassed...cycling far faster/harder than necessary to achieve optimum operation/functioning. A properly setup rifle can be a smooth as glass in terms of how it runs which can minimize the "violence" otherwise inflicted during cycling. It can also be due to a failure to understand how to properly reload for a semi-auto or other ammo issues that can cause accuracy woes in a semi. Not all ammo is designed for or appropriately used in semi-autos. However, if the ammo is assembled (or handloaded) properly for use in a semi-auto with an appropriate crimp to keep the bullet from being set-back during chambering or even when in the mag under recoil of the rifle with bullets getting banged around against the mag body, uses an appropriate bullet for a semi (soft point can be notoriously problematic as they tend to get beat up when the rounds chamber), etc., etc., then the effects of action battering around are fairly minimal on accuracy (which can be seen with a wide variety of platforms that have a proven track record of yielding well into the sub-MOA range, including when operated as designed as a SEMI-AUTO, MAGAZINE-FED RIFLE). Your premise that "AR-15s are more accurate than AR-10s" (paraphrasing) is just not technically sound. It isn't necessarily by virtue of the fact that one is more or less accurate than another or that one is more violent in its action than another that causes accuracy to diminish...it is largely as a result of manufacturers not holding as tight a guarantee on rifles that the vast majority of consumers who buy them have about as much of an idea about or proficiency with a large-frame semi-auto as they do about being an astronaut or nuclear physicist. Any lapse of proper technique, fundamentals, etc., will show up ten-fold on a semi-auto .308 as compared to a bolt gun (or even a small-frame AR for that matter). The accuracy POTENTIAL is there regardless of small- or large-frame AR...but there are impediments wholly unrelated to the rifle itself, its operation and the fodder it gets fed that play a HUGE role in fulfilling that potential. There are other factors that come into play as well, but those are the "biggies" I'd say in my experience with several decades of precision shooting with all sorts of semi-autos.

Just my thoughts/experiences...I'm sure others may disagree.

 

[Newtrick]

Some of my AR 10s are more accurate than my AR 15s. I don't think that is an issue. A couple of them rival my bolt guns. If I am shooting a five round group, I load six so the bolt does not lock back on the last round scored. The bolt locking back has caused my last round to vary some. This is just what I've found has worked better for me. I'm not saying this is a universal truth for everyone. I have match grade barrels and shoot developed hand loads.

 

[rideHPD]

What others have said, crimp and cannelure are designed specifically to prevent bullet setback and good reloading/ammunition selection are key for semis. Another thing important to mention is that when you single load you need to place the round into the magazine each time, and not simply drop a round into the breech though the ejection port. ARs are not designed to be fed in this matter and the bolt will slam into battery harder than if it had to strip a round from the mag, as the process takes energy. This is something that can result in slam fires, and can be read about in many threads on this site and elsewhere.

 

[ORD]

What others have said, crimp and cannelure are designed specifically to prevent bullet setback and good reloading/ammunition selection are key for semis. Another thing important to mention is that when you single load you need to place the round into the magazine each time, and not simply drop a round into the breech though the ejection port. ARs are not designed to be fed in this matter and the bolt will slam into battery harder than if it had to strip a round from the mag, as the process takes energy. This is something that can result in slam fires, and can be read about in many threads on this site and elsewhere.

^^ This is ALL worthy of being repeated!! ^^

I take it for granted when people say "single-feed" a semi-auto that they are doing it properly (either with a sled or like device, etc., etc.), but chucking a round into the chamber and smacking the bolt catch or otherwise allowing the carrier to slam forward on the round is a recipe for problems no matter how much anecdotal evidence exists to support the concept on either side of that coin! Bad ju-ju!

 

[rideHPD]

^^ This is ALL worthy of being repeated!! ^^

I take it for granted when people say "single-feed" a semi-auto that they are doing it properly (either with a sled or like device, etc., etc.), but chucking a round into the chamber and smacking the bolt catch or otherwise allowing the carrier to slam forward on the round is a recipe for problems no matter how much anecdotal evidence exists to support the concept on either side of that coin! Bad ju-ju!

Precisely, and whether or not it happens, wouldn't you rather not take a chance on losing your hand/eyes/etc.? Yes, it could open up your group as you break position to reload, but much better than opening up your hand. I've seen that happen more times than I care to. Some time spent searching the reloading sub-forum and the rest of the S/A sub-thread would do you good.

 

[Howa4AU]

Newtrick, I dont know whether or not that really makes a difference, but I do it religiously myself just in case

 

[trident1982]

Some of the gents already covered it above...I would only hand load single rounds if they are too long for mags like the 80gr. SMKs below.



Banging tannerite laced AR500 @ 742yds....with hand-loaded 80gr. SMKs - YouTube

 

[rideHPD]

Since we're already here, Trident, what do you think of the tradeoff of using the 80 & 90gr smks and having to handload? Ive always appreciated your opinions.

 

[GotGoodGroups]

^^ This is ALL worthy of being repeated!! ^^

I take it for granted when people say "single-feed" a semi-auto that they are doing it properly (either with a sled or like device, etc., etc.), but chucking a round into the chamber and smacking the bolt catch or otherwise allowing the carrier to slam forward on the round is a recipe for problems no matter how much anecdotal evidence exists to support the concept on either side of that coin! Bad ju-ju!

I meant putting a single round into the magazine. I do know better than to just throw a round in there.

My AR15 doesn't seem to care if I load a single round or many. The accuracy remains the same.

With my AR10 this is just a theory based on recent experience. I totally "get" that the gun was not meant to just have one round loaded at a time but if you are developing a load you want to minimize all the factors that might give you inconsistency. I was asking the question as to whether it made any difference to help determine whether my theory was a witch hunt.

I realize that in many / most cases the biggest factor for accuracy is the quality of the barrel above all else. A good stock and trigger will never make a bad barrel shoot well. I also realize that in bolt guns, a poor stock can make a good barrel shoot poorly.

 

[chainring]

On the infrequent occasion that I shoot for paper groups, here's how I go about it:

5 round group, load a cheap burner round into magazine first, then 5 rounds of match ammo (or whatever I am grouping) and follow it with another burner round - 7 rounds total.

Chamber top burner round and fire into berm/backstop, which live-fire chambers the first group round. Shoot 5 round group, with all five rounds getting the same chambering forces. Groups ends with final burner round being chambered, rather than locking back.

I may be over-thinking it, but if accuracy is removing as many variables as possible, then I figure I'm just doing my part.

 

[elfster1234]

This is a moot issue for me because if i wanted a single load and shoot then i would just get a bolt action. That is why i love and own so many semi auto AR's is i somewhat get the performance of a bolt action, but i can unleash holy hell if i want. It is a serious art-form to get a semi auto to group well, especially for a 308cal or higher. As for a semi auto, you are not shooting groups unless you load up a minimum of 5rounds (10is better) and shoot those rounds in a row. A lot can happen and usually does between the 3rd and 5th round.

 

[samnev]

4th or 5th Round Group Soilers.

This is a moot issue for me because if i wanted a single load and shoot then i would just get a bolt action. That is why i love and own so many semi auto AR's is i somewhat get the performance of a bolt action, but i can unleash holy hell if i want. It is a serious art-form to get a semi auto to group well, especially for a 308cal or higher. As for a semi auto, you are not shooting groups unless you load up a minimum of 5rounds (10is better) and shoot those rounds in a row. A lot can happen and usually does between the 3rd and 5th round.

Well said with " A lot can happen and usually does between the 3rd and 5th round." That is always were my goups always go from excellent to not so good. Especially on the 4th or 5th round.

 

[Newtrick]

Newtrick, I dont know whether or not that really makes a difference, but I do it religiously myself just in case

Thanks Howa. It's probably just whats left of my brain playing tricks on me, but I seem to get better results that way. On another note, a buddy of mine started loading heavier projectiles that would not mag fit in his AR. He was getting good results, but finally just went to a bolt gun, and was much happier. Single loading an AR is kind of like using a pneumatic hammer without air pressure.

 

[trident1982]

Since we're already here, Trident, what do you think of the tradeoff of using the 80 & 90gr smks and having to handload? Ive always appreciated your opinions.

I don't have any time using the 90gr. SMKs, but I could definitely see the higher BC advantage of the 80gr. SMK at distance over all the mag length projectiles commonly used I've tried in the past outside of the 77gr. SMK. The only time I really see a place for them with regards to AR shooting is when somebody wants to approach 1k with their shooting. I think the 77gr. SMK generally gets it done quite well, and can be loaded in mags.

 

[Three57]

I have been doing a lot of reloading and testing those reloads by shooting groups. I was consistently having problems between rounds 3 and 5. I was doing the reloading testing to prepare them for a long range shooting course. I couldn't get my reloads to be what I considered consistent enough, I believed some of this inconsistency to be caused by the nature of a rifle autoloading from a magazine. I ended up purchasing some HSM M118LR ammo for the course. The rifle shot the course amazing, and I can no longer blame my poor groups on the way the cartridges are chambered. I am still very new to this, and this is in no way a guarantee, but I can say that it is my experience, specifically with my rifle, that autoloading from the magazine and the chamber locking open, made very little, to no difference in bullet impact at multiple ranges, under a lot of different circumstances. After doing this, I have determined that it is my reloading procedures and shooting techniques that have the biggest affect on group sizes. This is only my contribution from my experience with my rifle, I am sure this is not always the case, and I still have a lot to learn, I just wanted to contribute my experience.