Skip cleaning primer pockets and inside of necks

[Rh0dz]

I'm finding that cleaning primer pockets and inside necks are two steps I am not fond of. I currently tumble with corncob or walnut media but am thinking of switching to stainless chips to help with cleaning primer pockets and inside of necks. The negative I've read is that the inside of the necks are too clean and cause too much friction with the seated bullet, which is obviously a problem.

Those of you who use stainless media, how do you assure you have consistent neck lube with minimal friction? I use imperial dry lube when using mandrels to expand necks. Will this suffice for seating bullets? I've read others use neolube #2 or a paste.

I was hoping to get some feedback from others that use stainless media before going the trial and error route. Thanks.

 

[acourvil]

Dry lube for mr

 

[Schütze]

I'm finding that cleaning primer pockets and inside necks are two steps I am not fond of. I currently tumble with corncob or walnut media but am thinking of switching to stainless chips to help with cleaning primer pockets and inside of necks. The negative I've read is that the inside of the necks are too clean and cause too much friction with the seated bullet, which is obviously a problem.

Those of you who use stainless media, how do you assure you have consistent neck lube with minimal friction? I use imperial dry lube when using mandrels to expand necks. Will this suffice for seating bullets? I've read others use neolube #2 or a paste.

I was hoping to get some feedback from others that use stainless media before going the trial and error route. Thanks.

Do you see any difference on the target with clean vs not cleaned primer pocket’s? Almost everyone says no….
This means keep doing what you are doing would be my suggestion.

 

[simonp]

Dry lube / graphite

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I'm finding that cleaning primer pockets and inside necks are two steps I am not fond of. I currently tumble with corncob or walnut media but am thinking of switching to stainless chips to help with cleaning primer pockets and inside of necks. The negative I've read is that the inside of the necks are too clean and cause too much friction with the seated bullet, which is obviously a problem.

Those of you who use stainless media, how do you assure you have consistent neck lube with minimal friction? I use imperial dry lube when using mandrels to expand necks. Will this suffice for seating bullets? I've read others use neolube #2 or a paste.

I was hoping to get some feedback from others that use stainless media before going the trial and error route. Thanks.

This is my tried and true method and trying everything from corn cob, to walnut to Russian groats to wet tumbling with stainless media to just Water and ultrasonic.

Alot of people have trouble with this part of reloading because most of the info they get is outdated bullshit that keeps getting re-posted.

First of all, fuck all the dry media shit. Who the hell wants that mess and sorting out all this shit, not to mention having to ensure every piece of debris is out of the case or not stuck in the primer pocket. So vibratory tumblers go in the trash. Aint nobody got time for that.

Now we get to wet tumbling. Using Stainless steel pins or chips or whatever WILL do a superior job of cleaning out the primer pockets and insides of the cases. The problem is 3 fold. First, they are not needed. You don't need sparkly clean primer pockets or inside the case. A little carbon baked on there does no harm and does not effect accuracy/SD/ES/ED or AIDS. Some F-class world champs dont even clean their cases before they reload them, but my balls aren't that big yet. Second, I have experienced peened case mouths when running steel too long while wet tumbling. Yes you can peen case mouths by running just cases for too long (Over an hour, especially with cases that were trimmed/chamfered making it easier to roll the edge). I ruined like 500 Lapua cases when my tumbler broke and the thing ran for hours. I had to hand chamfer the inside of every case mouth just to get them wide enough to fit over the pilot of a henderson and ended up having cases .015 shorter than spec as a result. This royally sucked and I wont do it again. 3rd is time. Spending time draining, straining and ensuring every piece of steel is out of the case before it gets dried (What do you think a steel pin in the case will do to your accuracy not to mention barrel when its fired?) is a pain in the ass. Now this was traditionally done with some Dawn and lemishine like most do. It worked but was a pain in the ass and took way more time that I wanted to spend.


What I have learned is to just wet tumble with a good brass cleaning agent like Brass Juice or Boretech Brass Cleaner. I will typically anneal, deprime then clean the cases before I size/mandrel them. Throw the cases in with a oz or 2 of the Brass Cleaner and let it go for 20-30 minutes. Cases will come out sparkly clean on outside but you will still see some carbon inside case neck and primer pockets, but this is NOT an issue. Just dump the dirty water and clean brass soup into a strainer, run some fresh water over them to rinse off the solvent and throw in dryer. What took like 10-15 minutes with steel media now takes 30 seconds. I will then throw the cases into a food dehydrator that I bought my wife for Xmas (Didn't fool her) and let them dry out for a few hours. Once they are good I will size them.

Another thing I learned is Fuck imperial wax, dry graphite, hornady 1 shot,ect. Dealing with a giant fucking mess, horrible chemical smells, inconsistent shoulder bumps and stuck cases resulting in destroyed custom bushing dies is not fun. A friend showed me the Lanolin/Alcohol method and I will never use anything else. Its cheaper, cleaner, faster, and more repeatable than anything else I have used. I do not have to lube the inside of the cases because not only does some of the lanolin get in there, but that carbon that we did not completely clean out because we aren't fucking idiots, acts as a lube for the mandrel. Easy Peasy Mac and Cheesey. After Sizing/mandrel, throw in the Henderson for a nice trim/chamfer clean up and back into the ultrasonic cleaner for about 10 minutes just to wash the lube off. Then back in Dehydrator waiting for Priming, charging and seating bullets.

The last method is ultrasonic, which is similar to the above method just except they dont tumble, the water molecules actually scrub the cases. You need to be carefull with solvents and certain chemicals in an ultrasonic as the heat generated can hit the flash point and become explosive if vapor builds up under the lid. IF I couldn't wet tumble without media, I would use the US cleaner. Problem is its a big fucking mess, Takes forever to fill it with 25L of water, then you have to drain it and clean it out, plus it makes the most annoying high pinched wininig sound that makes you want to stick a chop stick in your ear. Its a good method if you dont want to wet tumble, but I still think its more work.

 

[308pirate]

What I have learned is to just wet tumble with a good brass cleaning agent like Brass Juice or Boretech Brass Cleaner. I will typically anneal, deprime then clean the cases before I size/mandrel them. Throw the cases in with a oz or 2 of the Brass Cleaner and let it go for 20-30 minutes. Cases will come out sparkly clean on outside but you will still see some carbon inside case neck and primer pockets, but this is NOT an issue. Just dump the dirty water and clean brass soup into a strainer, run some fresh water over them to rinse off the solvent and throw in dryer. What took like 10-15 minutes with steel media now takes 30 seconds. I will then throw the cases into a food dehydrator that I bought my wife for Xmas (Didn't fool her) and let them dry out for a few hours. Once they are good I will size them.

Another thing I learned is Fuck imperial wax, dry graphite, hornady 1 shot,ect. Dealing with a giant fucking mess, horrible chemical smells, inconsistent shoulder bumps and stuck cases resulting in destroyed custom bushing dies is not fun. A friend showed me the Lanolin/Alcohol method and I will never use anything else. Its cheaper, cleaner, faster, and more repeatable than anything else I have used. I do not have to lube the inside of the cases because not only does some of the lanolin get in there, but that carbon that we did not completely clean out because we aren't fucking idiots, acts as a lube for the mandrel. Easy Peasy Mac and Cheesey. After Sizing/mandrel, throw in the Henderson for a nice trim/chamfer clean up and back into the ultrasonic cleaner for about 10 minutes just to wash the lube off. Then back in Dehydrator waiting for Priming, charging and seating bullets.

I toss them in the wet tumbler with primers. DGAF about clean primer pockets. Makes no difference to what I do. Otherwise same process as yours, including the lanolin/alcohol solution. 30 min at 240 F in an old toaster oven dries them including the primer pocket with the old primer in it.

How do you apply the case lube? I still do it like I used to apply 1 Shot: toss the lot in a ziplock bag, spray some shit in there, shake them around.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I toss them in the wet tumbler with primers. DGAF about clean primer pockets. Makes no difference to what I do. Otherwise same process as yours, including the lanolin/alcohol solution. 30 min at 240 F in an old toaster oven dries them including the primer pocket with the old primer in it.

How do you apply the case lube? I still do it like I used to apply 1 Shot: toss the lot in a ziplock bag, spray some shit in there, shake them around.

I have thought about that too. I hand deprime (will be moving this later in the year https://www.davincimachining.com/automatic-decapping-machine-adm) so it I figure better to do it before and get the benefit of cleaner primer pockets since its no extra work/time.

I use 10% Lanolin/90% Alcohol in a spill proof spray bottle. 1 Bottle lasts like a year or 2, it doesn't take alot. Probably costs less than $10 a year for lube.

I will put 500 or so cases into a plastic bin or old wooden primer crate and then liberally spray the lube all over the cases. Then I mix the cases up with my hand. Lanolin is actually used in alot of skin care so its safe and the alcohol dries off so fast it doesn't matter. Mix around with hands for 30 seconds then spray some more and mix around again. Let them sit about 5 minutes for the alcohol to flash off and then I start sizing/mandreling. I have had them sit for days after being sprayed and gone to use them with no issues. My stuck cases have virtually disappeared and I seem to get much better consistency with shoulder bumping (within .0005). Its helped me control neck tension better and get everything dialed in. Current load which is on the hot side (running 2940, going to try to get it down to 2850ish) is averaging 3.7 SD over a 30 round string. I mix lots, firings ect from alpha brass. I dont weight sort or any of that shit. Take Alpha Brass from case or tub, Take bullets from a yellow box and Pour H4350 from the jug.

Amazon product ASIN B0014AWF0SAmazon product ASIN B00ABYVT64Amazon product ASIN B07NFSFBXQ

 

[Rh0dz]

This is my tried and true method and trying everything from corn cob, to walnut to Russian groats to wet tumbling with stainless media to just Water and ultrasonic.

Alot of people have trouble with this part of reloading because most of the info they get is outdated bullshit that keeps getting re-posted.

First of all, fuck all the dry media shit. Who the hell wants that mess and sorting out all this shit, not to mention having to ensure every piece of debris is out of the case or not stuck in the primer pocket. So vibratory tumblers go in the trash. Aint nobody got time for that.

Now we get to wet tumbling. Using Stainless steel pins or chips or whatever WILL do a superior job of cleaning out the primer pockets and insides of the cases. The problem is 3 fold. First, they are not needed. You don't need sparkly clean primer pockets or inside the case. A little carbon baked on there does no harm and does not effect accuracy/SD/ES/ED or AIDS. Some F-class world champs dont even clean their cases before they reload them, but my balls aren't that big yet. Second, I have experienced peened case mouths when running steel too long while wet tumbling. Yes you can peen case mouths by running just cases for too long (Over an hour, especially with cases that were trimmed/chamfered making it easier to roll the edge). I ruined like 500 Lapua cases when my tumbler broke and the thing ran for hours. I had to hand chamfer the inside of every case mouth just to get them wide enough to fit over the pilot of a henderson and ended up having cases .015 shorter than spec as a result. This royally sucked and I wont do it again. 3rd is time. Spending time draining, straining and ensuring every piece of steel is out of the case before it gets dried (What do you think a steel pin in the case will do to your accuracy not to mention barrel when its fired?) is a pain in the ass. Now this was traditionally done with some Dawn and lemishine like most do. It worked but was a pain in the ass and took way more time that I wanted to spend.


What I have learned is to just wet tumble with a good brass cleaning agent like Brass Juice or Boretech Brass Cleaner. I will typically anneal, deprime then clean the cases before I size/mandrel them. Throw the cases in with a oz or 2 of the Brass Cleaner and let it go for 20-30 minutes. Cases will come out sparkly clean on outside but you will still see some carbon inside case neck and primer pockets, but this is NOT an issue. Just dump the dirty water and clean brass soup into a strainer, run some fresh water over them to rinse off the solvent and throw in dryer. What took like 10-15 minutes with steel media now takes 30 seconds. I will then throw the cases into a food dehydrator that I bought my wife for Xmas (Didn't fool her) and let them dry out for a few hours. Once they are good I will size them.

Another thing I learned is Fuck imperial wax, dry graphite, hornady 1 shot,ect. Dealing with a giant fucking mess, horrible chemical smells, inconsistent shoulder bumps and stuck cases resulting in destroyed custom bushing dies is not fun. A friend showed me the Lanolin/Alcohol method and I will never use anything else. Its cheaper, cleaner, faster, and more repeatable than anything else I have used. I do not have to lube the inside of the cases because not only does some of the lanolin get in there, but that carbon that we did not completely clean out because we aren't fucking idiots, acts as a lube for the mandrel. Easy Peasy Mac and Cheesey. After Sizing/mandrel, throw in the Henderson for a nice trim/chamfer clean up and back into the ultrasonic cleaner for about 10 minutes just to wash the lube off. Then back in Dehydrator waiting for Priming, charging and seating bullets.

The last method is ultrasonic, which is similar to the above method just except they dont tumble, the water molecules actually scrub the cases. You need to be carefull with solvents and certain chemicals in an ultrasonic as the heat generated can hit the flash point and become explosive if vapor builds up under the lid. IF I couldn't wet tumble without media, I would use the US cleaner. Problem is its a big fucking mess, Takes forever to fill it with 25L of water, then you have to drain it and clean it out, plus it makes the most annoying high pinched wininig sound that makes you want to stick a chop stick in your ear. Its a good method if you dont want to wet tumble, but I still think its more work.

This is the exact response I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to explain your process. I'm gonna try out your lube method.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I use imperial sizing wax and imperial graphite neck stuff. Wipe it off with a bounty paper towel. #heathen

 

[jpjulian]

My opinion, as a former knuckle-dragging highpower competitor; cleaning, uniforming, de-burring primer pockets & flash holes is a complete and total waste of time. Others, with more time on their hands, and I'm retired, may differ in their opinion, but I stick by mine.

 

[straightshooter1]

My opinion, as a former knuckle-dragging highpower competitor; cleaning, uniforming, de-burring primer pockets & flash holes is a complete and total waste of time. Others, with more time on their hands, and I'm retired, may differ in their opinion, but I stick by mine.

That true for a lot of different types of shooting, but it all depends on which discipline of shooting one is doing. Bench Rest, PRS, Hunting, Plinking . . . others, all have different level of precision that one might want to adhere to.

 

[Juma]

I'm finding that cleaning primer pockets and inside necks are two steps I am not fond of. I currently tumble with corncob or walnut media but am thinking of switching to stainless chips to help with cleaning primer pockets and inside of necks. The negative I've read is that the inside of the necks are too clean and cause too much friction with the seated bullet, which is obviously a problem.

Those of you who use stainless media, how do you assure you have consistent neck lube with minimal friction? I use imperial dry lube when using mandrels to expand necks. Will this suffice for seating bullets? I've read others use neolube #2 or a paste.

I was hoping to get some feedback from others that use stainless media before going the trial and error route. Thanks.

By annealing every time. Chamfer the inside of the neck. No shaving when seating. Like liquid honey. Always clean with SSM. Primer pocket uniform each time and flashhole uniform once. Throw away your expander as it is redundant if you size after annealing. Perfect necks. 2C. Best.

 

[supercorndogs]

Size brass, tumble lube off with corn cob media, ready to load. It really can be that simple.

 

[smoothy8500]

as a former knuckle-dragging highpower competitor; cleaning, uniforming, de-burring primer pockets & flash holes is a complete and total waste of time.

You realize our wanting to adhere to 1 MOA in Highpower isn't enough for these masters of precision....

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You realize our wanting to adhere to 1 MOA in Highpower isn't enough for these masters of precision....

These are the kind of statements that let everyone know you are 2 ply in a 10 ply world.

 

[Baron85]

I have tried dry, ss wet tumbling, and ultra sonic. I am back to dry tumbling with walnut or corn cob, I prefer the walnut since it seems to have less static. I still use SS wet for my really dirty brass like suppressed AR or pistol.

I found that the SS wet tumbling was just more of a hassle for me. I had to make sure not to forget about the brass and leave it in the solution for days ( I use lemishine), needed to rinse and dry, and I was always afraid of a pin being left in the brass. Also had to make sure to not over tumble and remove too much carbon from the necks.

I prefer the dry tumbling because it runs when I’m asleep or away from the house so the extra time doesn’t matter to me. I can forget about it for days and I don’t feel like there will be any adverse affects on the brass. And once it’s done tumbling it’s ready to load, no need to dry.

As far as having to pick pieces of media from the primer pockets, I’m not sure it really matter??? The force of the primer exploding should easily push a little corn cob out of the way is my thoughts. And residual media in the case is just going to burn up or harmlessly go out of the barrel vs a SS pin. I also started to load my ammo on a progressive and use the first station as a decapping rod so it will push any stuck media out of the flash hole anyways.

Now on too clean primer pockets. I used to clean primer pockets and have found no benefit, I haven’t cleaned primer pockets in probably 10 years now. Cut out all the extra silly steps and spend your time shooting.

Last with the mandrel/neck lube. Since I use a progressive to size/load my process is as follows.

Run brass through tumbler with dry media and nufinish, lube with alcohol/lanolin mix, goes into press, first stage deprime, 2nd full length resize, 3rd mandrel neck. Back into the tumbler to remove lube.

Now trim with giraurd that chamfers at same time and back into the press, 1st deprime to clean flash hole, 2nd prime on up stroke, 3rd mandrel again in case neck got dinged (no lube needed since it’s already been mandrelled), 4th powder charge using a Dillon powder funnel and area 419 funnel adapter mounted in press and charge thrown with auto trickler, 5th seat bullet.

With the above system I haven’t noticed any degraded accuracy or consistency. I do want to do some more sientific testing with a chrono and multiple shooters to verify I’m not loosing anything meaningful over all single stage but I have won a match using this setup and placed in the top 10 multiple times so far since switching and I am able to load around 150-200 rounds an hour starting with processed brass. A significant bump over my single stage loading.

Below is a 10 shot group loaded as above with my tikka 223 running 88’s at 100 yards.

 

[CK1.0]

IMO wet tumbling with SS pins is great... for blaster ammo (for precision rifle cases, not so much).

For tumbling setups, I have a wet tumbler setup, an industrial grade ultrasonic, and 2 separate dry tumbling setups (treated walnut for cleaning dirty rifle brass if it needs it, another with 20-40 grit corn cob blasting media for tumbling off lube). I even paid a plumber to install a double mop sink in my garage to make wet tumbling easier.

Wet tumbling, whether with pins or without, will eventually fuck up your case mouths and you will have to trim them short to fix it (or get new brass if you can't).

While I love how the brass comes out "brand new" when wet tumbling with pins, for precision cases, after trying everything... I finally decided the negatives aren't worth it. Same with using the ultrasonic (which I now just use on gun parts mostly), the process was annoying, and the inside of the necks got too clean.

These days, if the brass mostly didn't hit the ground, I just spray it with the Lanolin/IPA mix in a big ziplock and then start sizing... I use the walnut dry tumbler first if I shot in the rain/mud or something, or if the brass starts getting too ratty, otherwise, I skip it.

Tumbling off lube with 20-40 grit corn cob is the jam, it flows through flash-holes like water when you're done. It's much finer than the usual corn cob stuff most are familiar with and is worth spending a couple of bucks on just based on how easy it makes things.

Amazon product ASIN B08F5JTPBJ

 

[Haney]

Some people don't wipe their assholes , some people like dirty brass . Who cares ?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I find pouring water with cartridge contaminants into my septic system pretty unappealing. The water table for my wells is only 20' and my leach field is 4'. We have 2' of snow over the leach field and any heavy metals are likely to go straight into the water table within the next month as the snow melts.

There is no point in cleaning primer pockets, any measurable carbon in the pocket will move when the primer is seated. Cleaning out your brass 100% is counterproductive in general anyway.

 

[Longtrain]

I clean my cases in SS chips, not pins for about 1/2 hour with a shot of Dawn and Lemishine. I have Dasher cases that have been loaded at least 20 times with no ill effects. As far as bullet welding, I have used Neolube #2 on a Qtip and swirl inside the case mouth before charging the case. It dries almost instantly and doesn’t contaminate the powder charge. Currently, I’ve gone back to coating my bullets with Danzac also know as WS2 or Tungsten Disulfide. I get consistent bullet release and can load months in advance without the worry of bullet welding.

 

[JoshPutman]

I dry tumble with about a 50/50 mix of walnut and corncob, with a little bit of Iosso every so often. It does what I need.

 

[Pat McGroin]

This is my tried and true method and trying everything from corn cob, to walnut to Russian groats to wet tumbling with stainless media to just Water and ultrasonic.

Alot of people have trouble with this part of reloading because most of the info they get is outdated bullshit that keeps getting re-posted.

First of all, fuck all the dry media shit. Who the hell wants that mess and sorting out all this shit, not to mention having to ensure every piece of debris is out of the case or not stuck in the primer pocket. So vibratory tumblers go in the trash. Aint nobody got time for that.

Now we get to wet tumbling. Using Stainless steel pins or chips or whatever WILL do a superior job of cleaning out the primer pockets and insides of the cases. The problem is 3 fold. First, they are not needed. You don't need sparkly clean primer pockets or inside the case. A little carbon baked on there does no harm and does not effect accuracy/SD/ES/ED or AIDS. Some F-class world champs dont even clean their cases before they reload them, but my balls aren't that big yet. Second, I have experienced peened case mouths when running steel too long while wet tumbling. Yes you can peen case mouths by running just cases for too long (Over an hour, especially with cases that were trimmed/chamfered making it easier to roll the edge). I ruined like 500 Lapua cases when my tumbler broke and the thing ran for hours. I had to hand chamfer the inside of every case mouth just to get them wide enough to fit over the pilot of a henderson and ended up having cases .015 shorter than spec as a result. This royally sucked and I wont do it again. 3rd is time. Spending time draining, straining and ensuring every piece of steel is out of the case before it gets dried (What do you think a steel pin in the case will do to your accuracy not to mention barrel when its fired?) is a pain in the ass. Now this was traditionally done with some Dawn and lemishine like most do. It worked but was a pain in the ass and took way more time that I wanted to spend.


What I have learned is to just wet tumble with a good brass cleaning agent like Brass Juice or Boretech Brass Cleaner. I will typically anneal, deprime then clean the cases before I size/mandrel them. Throw the cases in with a oz or 2 of the Brass Cleaner and let it go for 20-30 minutes. Cases will come out sparkly clean on outside but you will still see some carbon inside case neck and primer pockets, but this is NOT an issue. Just dump the dirty water and clean brass soup into a strainer, run some fresh water over them to rinse off the solvent and throw in dryer. What took like 10-15 minutes with steel media now takes 30 seconds. I will then throw the cases into a food dehydrator that I bought my wife for Xmas (Didn't fool her) and let them dry out for a few hours. Once they are good I will size them.

Another thing I learned is Fuck imperial wax, dry graphite, hornady 1 shot,ect. Dealing with a giant fucking mess, horrible chemical smells, inconsistent shoulder bumps and stuck cases resulting in destroyed custom bushing dies is not fun. A friend showed me the Lanolin/Alcohol method and I will never use anything else. Its cheaper, cleaner, faster, and more repeatable than anything else I have used. I do not have to lube the inside of the cases because not only does some of the lanolin get in there, but that carbon that we did not completely clean out because we aren't fucking idiots, acts as a lube for the mandrel. Easy Peasy Mac and Cheesey. After Sizing/mandrel, throw in the Henderson for a nice trim/chamfer clean up and back into the ultrasonic cleaner for about 10 minutes just to wash the lube off. Then back in Dehydrator waiting for Priming, charging and seating bullets.

The last method is ultrasonic, which is similar to the above method just except they dont tumble, the water molecules actually scrub the cases. You need to be carefull with solvents and certain chemicals in an ultrasonic as the heat generated can hit the flash point and become explosive if vapor builds up under the lid. IF I couldn't wet tumble without media, I would use the US cleaner. Problem is its a big fucking mess, Takes forever to fill it with 25L of water, then you have to drain it and clean it out, plus it makes the most annoying high pinched wininig sound that makes you want to stick a chop stick in your ear. Its a good method if you dont want to wet tumble, but I still think its more work.

Going to try this. Hate the pins and imperial wax and repeat tumbling, and also the inconsistent shoulder bump with the imperial wax.

 

[Longtrain]

I will agree that Imperial Wax can be inconsistent, but I found that the amount used has a direct effect on the amount of shoulder bump. Additionally, annealing cases lends to more of an accurate bump, as brass spring-back is very minimized, if at all. The mixture of non-annealed cases and too much wax will make you crazy.
All that being said, I anneal after each firing and use a very scant amount of wax, just around the neck, shoulder and part way down the case with wax on my fore finger, using my thumb to help spread it around.

 

[smoothy8500]

Just curious How does annealing make for more consistent shoulder bumps when only the neck is annealed? Or does the heat treatment affect the shoulder too?

 

[Longtrain]

Just curious How does annealing make for more consistent shoulder bumps when only the neck is annealed? Or does the heat treatment affect the shoulder too?

From Rifleshooter.com. “Annealing is a process that heats the brass case to make it softer and more ductile, effectively reversing the work hardening process.”

The neck, shoulder and the area just below the shoulder are affected, NOT the base. Annealing the base could result in bad things happening when you pull the trigger.

 

[straightshooter1]

Just curious How does annealing make for more consistent shoulder bumps when only the neck is annealed? Or does the heat treatment affect the shoulder too?

The annealing process effects the shoulder too and to some extent, a little blow the neck also. The process, when done properly, does not fully anneal the neck or shoulder. It's simply meant to reverse the work hardening that takes place. Whether the work hardening had gotten worse over a period of time or just a little after one sizing, the proper annealing gets bras back to square one, where it's supposed to be. Fully annealing any part of the case, especially down to the body into the web, bad things can happen, even partially annealing the body or above the web area.

 

[spife7980]

Just curious How does annealing make for more consistent shoulder bumps when only the neck is annealed? Or does the heat treatment affect the shoulder too?

I anneal until the 750 tempilaq turns just below the shoulder. Thats what leads to consistent bumps and not just neck sizing. Even then I don’t get heat migration issues.

 

[Precision Underground]

Everyone is different but I wet cleaned long enough to realize it causes more problems than it solves for me. I’m not sure why I wanted to try it but it was a quick lesson on “if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it” when I found myself searching for ways to overcome the issues it created.

Most wet cleaners say it’s less messy than dry and that media gets stuck in the flash holes with dry. Using a good separator and the right media make neither of those an issue for me. I’d actually call wet more messy than dry but everyone’s idea of messy is different. I wouldn’t be against my brass being a little shinier but it was nowhere near worth the headache of drying brass and lubing necks.

I’d say ask yourself what are your reasons for wanting to wet clean. I never did this and found myself realizing that for me, there was no real reason to switch in the first place.

 

[lash]

Everyone is different but I wet cleaned long enough to realize it causes more problems than it solves for me. I’m not sure why I wanted to try it but it was a quick lesson on “if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it” when I found myself searching for ways to overcome the issues it created.

Most wet cleaners say it’s less messy than dry and that media gets stuck in the flash holes with dry. Using a good separator and the right media make neither of those an issue for me. I’d actually call wet more messy than dry but everyone’s idea of messy is different. I wouldn’t be against my brass being a little shinier but it was nowhere near worth the headache of drying brass and lubing necks.

I’d say ask yourself what are your reasons for wanting to wet clean. I never did this and found myself realizing that for me, there was no real reason to switch in the first place.

Plus, with fine walnut shell, just add a touch of polish with a load and they will shine up nice, just not stripped clean nice. Never yet had a plugged primer hole in tens of thousands of cases. Size matters.

But I say each to his own. If there were only ever one right way to do anything, this world would be a pretty fucking boring place. Variety truly is the spice of life and what works for you in your situation may not be optimal for another.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Stainless media gets stuck too, and when it does it breaks the stem in your die.

 

[Precision Underground]

Plus, with fine walnut shell, just add a touch of polish with a load and they will shine up nice, just not stripped clean nice. Never yet had a plugged primer hole in tens of thousands of cases. Size matters.

But I say each to his own. If there were only ever one right way to do anything, this world would be a pretty fucking boring place. Variety truly is the spice of life and what works for you in your situation may not be optimal for another.

Yup a little nu finish does well. Bolt gun brass gets really shiny no problem. The suppressed gas gun brass runs a little longer and still has some character when it comes out and I’m fine with that lol.

 

[jpjulian]

You realize our wanting to adhere to 1 MOA in Highpower isn't enough for these masters of precision....

Since I quit the highpower game because I can't sling up anymore, I'm shooting a gaud-awful pricey precision rifle like the big, popular boys and girls are shooting. Getting real good groups when I see well enough, too. Still don't clean primer pockets. It ain't worth the time or effort. And the targets don't know the difference. Others have different opinions and they are welcome to them. Free world......

 

[jpjulian]

That true for a lot of different types of shooting, but it all depends on which discipline of shooting one is doing. Bench Rest, PRS, Hunting, Plinking . . . others, all have different level of precision that one might want to adhere to.

Like I said, others may have a different opinion and they are welcome to them. No argument from me.

 

[Precision Underground]

Since I quit the highpower game because I can't sling up anymore, I'm shooting a gaud-awful pricey precision rifle like the big, popular boys and girls are shooting. Getting real good groups when I see well enough, too. Still don't clean primer pockets. It ain't worth the time or effort. And the targets don't know the difference. Others have different opinions and they are welcome to them. Free world......

My standard is 1/2-2/3 MOA and the only time I’ve ever cleaned primer pockets is when I tested to see if it made any difference on target. It didn’t make any difference on target.

 

[37L1]

I clean primer pockets for the reloading Voo Doo effects.

I've always done it, it doesn't take much time and makes me feel comfortable.

If you think that not cleaning primer pockets translates to more range time, well, I fart in your general direction.

 

[FNG1001]

Dry tumbling is easy and effective. Cleaning out the primer It's arguably the worst part of brass prep. This thread has me tempted to skip it all together for the next batch.

Sounds like primer pocket cleaning is something to suggest for the next edition of Bryan Litz' modern advancements.

 

[4O6shootist]

1. Turn on the amp/mate system, let her rip through and anneal all 800x pcs of my 6gt brass(have to reload hopper once)
2. lube in a 5 gallon bucket, prob 200x pcs at a time with lanolin/alcohol mix.
3. Size with FL bushing die giving desired neck tension while decapping(I'm interested in trying a SAC die that mandrels after bushing sizes neck, as I do feel neck tension consistency is 100% the biggest affect on ES/SD. I used to mandrel, but went away from it as I couldn't see it on targets making a difference, however the chrono shows a difference).
4.Brass goes the to henderson for a trim chamfer debur and gets dropped into my big ass harbor freight tumbler with corncob media, runs for 45 minds after I trim the last case.
5. I do like to remove any media from flash hole, however I left the plugged flash hole and loaded/shot them, compared to my known data, they were in the normal velocity range and had no affect on accuracy at 100y.
Tis is my brass prep. I used to clean pockets on my Frankford prep center, what a fn PITA. I still do every 3rd firing as my primer seating depth starts getting inconsistent.

 

[Precision Underground]

Dry tumbling is easy and effective. Cleaning out the primer It's arguably the worst part of brass prep. This thread has me tempted to skip it all together for the next batch.

Sounds like primer pocket cleaning is something to suggest for the next edition of Bryan Litz' modern advancements.

I’m pretty sure he tested it and found no benefit, or at least no conclusion. I think I read one of his posts on FB that said that but I could be wrong. I’ve tested it along with a lot of other things and most made no difference at all at my tactical accuracy level of 1/2-2/3 moa. If your pockets are packed with carbon and affecting your primer seating depth maybe you need to clean them. But when you’re exploding a charge at many thousands of PSI and ramming a bullet down a tube that’s a little too small for it I promise the bullet has no clue if there was a layer of carbon underneath the primer or not. Guys get OCD over tiny things and while it’s fine that it makes them feel good to have it all just so, most of it doesn’t matter on target IMO.

 

[jpjulian]

My standard is 1/2-2/3 MOA and the only time I’ve ever cleaned primer pockets is when I tested to see if it made any difference on target. It didn’t make any difference on target.

I bought a bag from you a couple weeks ago. First time at the range this past Friday. Nice bag. Works better than my old bunny ear.

 

[MK20]

Deprime and swage if surplus brass

Tumble in fine walnut media with harbor freight aggressive car polish added

Lanolin lube and size

Trim necks if needed.

 

[max1840]

I do what everyone hates to do but use imperial dry lube for neck expansion. Works for me

 

[STI_1911_Guy]

People tend to overthink this reloading stuff on their own or because of shit they read on the internet. Reloading accurate ammo is not complicated, we complicate it.

I have done tons of testing with various cleaning methods and tried to get them “overly clean”, whatever that fucking means, to see the effects it could have and I’ve never had an issue. I prefer wet tumbling with SS pins, not because the results from using them increase my accuracy but purely because I prefer clean brass.

I had modified an old press and setup a collet puller die to try and measure the force it took to remove a bullet from the loaded case to see what kind of relationship bullet seating force had with bullet pulling force essentially. I ran a bunch of studies comparing cleaning methods, annealing, FL sizing vs expander mandrel and others. I will see if I can find my old information from my testing and post it but to keep it short and sweet what I found was I couldn’t get cases “to clean”, there is not a direct linear relationship between searing force and pulling force and the pressures found in modern rifles during firing have a funny way of negating some of these things we fuss over.

Maybe one of the most beneficial things I found during testing to always be true was that if you make a change to any part of your case prep or seating depth (waste of time) or anything you do to “develop a load” and you test your adjustment with 3 shot groups, you are wasting your fucking time. To have any kind of real statistical significance and validity to your “test” you need minimum 5 round groups and better yet 10 round groups and ideally multiple of the 10 round groups to actually see if anything changed.

 

[MK20]

The most accurate match ammo US ordnance had ever developed up to that point required over 600 lbs of linear force to pull the bullet per Hatcher's notebook.

 

[memilanuk]

Pretty sure there's been more accurate ammo loaded in the last 80-90 years since Hatcher.