Rifle Scopes So what happened to Leupold scopes?

[jasonZ]

I'm just asking, because I don't see them being used as much as they used to be, plus the used market value is nothing now! Is it because of the likes of Vortex Viper and other such models/companies? Is it just a change in market taste/flavor? Is there issues with there components/quality now? I'm sure that when you consider that I compared my MK4 to a Vortex Viper (not pst) and the glass was only marginally better at best. I'm not so sure I wouldn't give the $400 Viper the edge in low light conditions either. I'm guessing all this is a part of it!

It's just weird because it used to be what everybody raved about and all you saw on tac/BR rifles! I'm just curious as to what everybodies opinions are. I often thought of selling mine, but the money that I would get back, even after only a few hundred rounds through it, would be way less than what I paid. I got a MK4 4.5-14X50 LR/T illuminated for well under MSRP and I would still be losing money to try and sell it. Anyways, I'm just wasting time through the night and thought I'd ask, so FLAME on if necessary. Thanks, Jason

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

If you do some searching you will find that this subject is talked about often.

clicky

For a long while Leupold has sat back happily raising their prices without making improvements on the product line, living well off the reputation built in the late 80’s and 90’s. All the while other manufactures made steady improvements, advances and listened to what customers wanted and brought new products to market.

2010-11 Leupold decided to catch up. Making a product with most of the features other manufactures have had out in the public’s eye and hands for several years. Now they want us to believe that some command Schmidt and Bender prices, and also tacked on few hundred more to the existing MK4 line with minor changes.

Dont take this post the wrong way as I am a Leupold owner and user. To this point I have not had a problem with any of the 8 I own or have owned (sold off three, not because they were bad, just didn’t fit my needs any longer). They do what they are asked with only a few annoyances such as turrets that are marked MOA that are not MOA and a couple with piss poor edge clarity in the last 10-15% of viewable area. Surprisingly my most prized Leupold is a pre-mk4 made in the 90’s it is a 3.5-10x40 vari X III Long Range with the old football reticle and M3 turrets. That scope is unbelievably clear in day light and low light and also much more robust than any other leupold I have owned yet. I have heard all kinds of stories both here and from range members of inconsistent tracking or failure but knock on wood, I have yet to experience. I don’t buy new, always used and with the overall quality I have seen and current price point I won’t be buying new either. They are a good value when you can find one for 30-40% off retail prices. If they are more than that I look to other manufactures, usually finding either the features I want, a better deal or both.

Thats my 2 cents, YMMV.

 

[Tato]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I was thinking about the cqbss 1-8x optic but the price is "incredible" and my interest in Leupold optic for now is "paused"

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I love my Mark 5 ERT M5

 

[steve_of_AR]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tato</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was thinking about the cqbss 1-8x optic but the price is "incredible"</div></div>

That one seems to be a bit of an outlier, it may have something to do with the sale to the military. Reportedly they had to develop it specifically for an intended niche for a single bulk sale to the military, with R&D costs factored in for that sale. I've also read somewhere that civilian prices cannot undercut that price given to the military or they'd run afoul of federal law for gouging. That's a bit of 2nd hand information but I'd at least withhold judgement on that scope price.

On the upside for Leupold, the VX-R patrol scopes do look good, I've got one on the way and may opt for another, hope they are as good as has been reported here and elsewhere.

 

[JAAM12]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I like all my leupolds. The vortex PST on down are not the same quality as the MK4. However the Vortex's Razor is a great scope. I do own vipers and don't care for them vs other optics I own.

 

[BCP]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

You didn't see people using all these other scopes back in the day because they weren't available then.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I have a Leupold VX-R Partol and love it. However I wouldn't pay the prices of the current Leupold Mk 4 or 5's when I can buy a NF.

 

[Graham]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

What happened? Leupold got outclassed. As a response, they tried to make more money by lowering the quality of the product instead of improving on its design.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Well this is one area I don't keep up with. I was curious what had happened to them or if it was indeed a matter of them being outclassed as stated above. It sounds like its really all the above. The MK4 that I bought I think is a good scope and seems to have no problems tracking, etc. I was not as impressed as I thought I might be with the glass clarity though.

 

[adrenalinelife]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I like my Leupold Mk 4 6.5-20x50 illuminated TMR Reticule. Having not seen through other glass, I can not comment on clarity. I will say that late evenings, and in the mornings when I look through the glass, I can see better through the scope than with bare eyes.

I highly recommend the MK 4.

 

[Big Cal]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Leupold IMO took too long to get in the tactical game and now that their trying to the competition was too far ahead of them don't get me wrong I own them I love them on a hunting rifle that you set and forget for varminting or rezeroing regularly I dont use them there is too much free play in the turrets to allow it to click positively enough for me mark 4s were good in their day but who else was in the game at that time with leupolds reputation in the same price bracket. But I think the tactical boat has sailed for them too many people have built up trust in other brands and for Leupold prices now there is alot better scopes on the market

 

[pc3]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I think Nightforce is the "New" Leupold. Reasonable prices and rock solid performance.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I'm an advocate for the consumer.

These stinkn optics are too darned expensive. Quality has improved but still lags far behind price. These companies are enjoying great profits...big heyday. We, the shooting consumer, are much too willing to pay insanely high prices for these optics. No field scope should cost over $2000. Most of them should be $1000.

We are getting screwed.

Only ones not getting plowed under is Lowlight and these popular gunrunners.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I was once told by my local gunshop owner (and friend) that there is a much higher mark up in the optics world compared to firearms and some related products. At the time I was debating the purchase of a spotting scope and was told not to bother looking at the MSRP price listed, once I found a few I liked he would get me a price on them.

I too have a hard time justifying the cost vs. what we get. I can understand currency exchange rates and tariff’s causing higher prices but thats not on domestic goods.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

LOL well I can't say I disagree about the price of optics, but I think one gets what one pays for! I like my MK4 don't get me wrong, but after looking through and shooting a PST, I feel that it's a better deal. I think the optical clarity, reticle, and adjustments are as good or better than the MK4's and you can get into one for several hundred less. I also like NF and think they are a very good entry level optic. I would probably also give them the nod before my MK4. With that being said, I had the unfortunate chance to look at these two scopes after buying my MK4 and feel I made a bad choice really. Having to do it all over again, I'd go with either of those two and probably the PST, but mostly because of price. I mounted one on a 50cal for a guy and had the joy of zeroing it out for him. It was a real nice optic and held up under, what I'd say is the most punishing, recoil there is.

 

[Big Cal]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Cost of guns and scopes getting ripped off check out our prices in australia we get royally shafted

 

[BCP]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Cal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cost of guns and scopes getting ripped off check out our prices in australia we get royally shafted </div></div>

Yeah but you can have a pet kangaroo.

 

[Rodnoneous]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Cal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cost of guns and scopes getting ripped off check out our prices in australia we get royally shafted </div></div>

Yeah but you can have a pet kangaroo. </div></div>

Prefer to shoot them...

 

[Tactical]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Love Leupolds. Running them since 1982 on my sniper rifles and now on my F TR Rifles. Work flawlessly

 

[Redmanss]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What happened? Leupold got outclassed. As a response, they tried to make more money by lowering the quality of the product instead of improving on its design.</div></div> Agree there, but the tides are starting to change for them. I'm looking forward to the rest of the new MK8 line, especially if they continue to expand the availability of the new turrets.

 

[BAGunner]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agree there, but the tides are starting to change for them. I'm looking forward to the rest of the new MK8 line, especially if they continue to expand the availability of the new turrets.</div></div>

You mean the M5 turrets? They are late in the game after Vortex PST/Bushnell ET, but it's a good sign nonetheless.

 

[BAGunner]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Cal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cost of guns and scopes getting ripped off check out our prices in australia we get royally shafted</div></div>

Same thing is happening here, starting with CA/MA/NJ/NY.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big Cal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold IMO took too long to get in the tactical game and now that their trying to the competition was too far ahead of them don't get me wrong I own them I love them on a hunting rifle that you set and forget for varminting or rezeroing regularly I dont use them there is too much free play in the turrets to allow it to click positively enough for me mark 4s were good in their day but who else was in the game at that time with leupolds reputation in the same price bracket. But I think the tactical boat has sailed for them too many people have built up trust in other brands and for Leupold prices now there is alot better scopes on the market </div></div>

Big Cal,

I found your post interesting, and on one level entirely correct: To wit, Leupold is playing catch up ball with regards to the market, and the competition is far ahead.

However, your observation that Leupold took too long to get into the tactical market, is incorrect.

Leupold OWNED the tactical market, and was the only player in the game from the mid-1980's to around 1998. So for 13 years + or - Leupold had no competition whatsoever.

Only in the last 13 years have other makers entered and now they, not Leupold, dominate the tactical market. So the reality is that Leupold slept for 26 years, while the market that they owned, went elsewhere.

Rip-Van Leupold has now awoke, and is actively clawing to regain the marketshare that they "gave" away.

It should be interesting to watch......

 

[DannySeesUSMC]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Leupold never really stopped kicking butt when it comes to sales of tactical scopes or scopes in general. You have to think of their figures when it comes to military, law enforcement, old salty dogs who don't really care about brands they never heard of, etc. The guy on top always gets more publicity for any problems.

The voice of the various forums always champions the newest, coolest gadget with the latest features - it's the same with cameras, knives, guns, cell-phones, etc.

Features, hype, and getting what the cool kids have has as much weight online as does having a proven record.

 

[Big Cal]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

We don't have Roos as pets we use them as a mode of transport adults ride on their back and children ride in their pouches but you have to wear a helmet lol

 

[Big Cal]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

BobinNC,
I agree with you just didn't really word it the same. Leupold did make big headway early but then sat back and relied on reputation to make sales rather then improving their product and it in that time too many companies came onto the tactical scene and have dominated with their innovation in this field. yes they are trying to come back and it will be interesting to see what happens next

 

[ccoker]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

They have, by all accounts, knocked a home run with the new VXR hunting and patrol model scopes...

Are they perfect ?
No, but they do a lot of things extremely well, especially at their price point.

The 1-8 CQBS is a killer optic, albeit expensive for the consumer market, which it is not aimed at.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I dunno - I still see more leupolds on top of LE rifles than everything else combined. Most LE doesn't have the big money that the .mil has to throw around, and can't just buy new toys as a neato new feature comes along. When my command staff asks why I need to replace a scope that still works just fine, I can't really come up with a good reason. This one is mil/mil ffp with an awesome new reticle doesn't get very far with them.

Our 15-year old 3.5-10x40 luppies are still working exactly like they did when we got them. There are newer scopes with better features, but that doesn't mean we need to spend the hard-to-get money on them. And if we get new rifles, they will likely get the same scope as the older ones within reason.

Leupold is still selling plenty of scopes to LE I bet. Military and civilian too. They're just not the rage on the internet. I'm betting when I go to another school next week, most of the rifles will have some form of Leupold on them.

 

[Action Guy]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

Rip Van Leupold.... I love it. Kind of agree. I think they saw the LE market as sewn up and may still have that market pretty much in hand. Recently, there has been some movement to keep up with the military and now civilian markets, and that is good: competition breeds success.

With that said, I run all Leupolds and their ER/Ts with M5 turrets fit my needs very well. Most of my scopes are through work, but some are personal as well, and I choose to do so. It is a good company in my experience, and when their scopes do all I ask of an optic, I will choose them all the time. I have never been let down by the performance of a Leupold optic. Sure it took some time to get FFP and mil/mil, but now I think they are in the game.

Semper fi,

 

[Redmanss]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BAGunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Agree there, but the tides are starting to change for them. I'm looking forward to the rest of the new MK8 line, especially if they continue to expand the availability of the new turrets.</div></div>

You mean the M5 turrets? They are late in the game after Vortex PST/Bushnell ET, but it's a good sign nonetheless. </div></div> No, I mean the locking zero stop turrets on the MK8. They are superb.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I think Leupold is as good as ever- the used market value just blows.

It may have something to do with a Made in Japan optics stigma. When they were US made the resale was better, but the optics have improved IMO.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

We still got one of those old leupy's on a rifle at my department too! It still works fantastically and has awesome optics. I went with leupold over others just based on what I'd seen through, mostly older models, and the fact that they usually work all the time. In my situation if I was on the rifle, I would be looking at maybe a 100yd shot. We shoot to 600yds, but in an LE situation you're gonna be close. My biggest gripe is one the resale value, since I bought mine out of pocket, and two I'm just not impressed with the glass clarity really. I was mostly just complaining about resale value really. I mean MSRP on this one is like $1379 and I'm looking at several that are having trouble getting a grand for em. Now granted, some of these aren't exactly the same models, but even at that, with less than 100rds under it, I beet I'd have trouble getting $1250 for it! I'm not per say "regretting" my decision, I just think I could have got a PST or something, saved some money, and been happier, but it is what it is.

 

[BCP]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It may have something to do with a Made in Japan optics stigma.</div></div>

Technically they're still made here just more parts sourced from overseas seems to be the consensus.

Also anyone who thinks "Made in Japan" optics are bad is retarded. The Japanese make excellent optics.

 

[Bedlam]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I don't know what you guys expect to get for used optics. I've been watching the for sale optics thread here a while and notice that ALL brands of optics take a huge hit for resale value. Mostly it seems the rare military style optics are the only ones that hold their value, or actually increase in value, for collectable reasons.

But it's pretty common to see 30%-40% discounts on used scopes that actually sell.

The used discounts are so big I actually can't see myself buying new. I might be hesitant to buy one from arfcom maybe, but the people here tend to take good care of their high end scopes.

 

[slowr1der]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bedlam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know what you guys expect to get for used optics. I've been watching the for sale optics thread here a while and notice that ALL brands of optics take a huge hit for resale value. Mostly it seems the rare military style optics are the only ones that hold their value, or actually increase in value, for collectable reasons.

But it's pretty common to see 30%-40% discounts on used scopes that actually sell.

The used discounts are so big I actually can't see myself buying new. I might be hesitant to buy one from arfcom maybe, but the people here tend to take good care of their high end scopes.
</div></div>I haven't bought a new scope in quite a while. When I can get huge discounts on used ones, why buy new? I don't even like used stuff, but I've found I can often get a 30-40% discount like you said on something that's like new. That's too hard to pass up.

 

[trobertson5-0]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

If you paid anywhere near that MSRP for your new scope thats where the problem lies for you in the resale value department. 4.5x14 with mil dots are all over the internet new for right at $1000,I bought a new in sealed box 6.5x20 with TMR for $1100 last night on Ebay. Last 4.5x14 I bought was $875 new last year on a dealer closeout. You are always going to be disappointed if you look at equipment as a financial investment,it loses 25% the day you buy it new. Look as it like an investment in your efficiency,the fun you have,or the service you provide to the citizens you protect. BTW,nothing happened to Leupold except on the internet. They still top more LE and military(read "professional Sniper") rifles than all other scopes combined.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TacticalJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We still got one of those old leupy's on a rifle at my department too! It still works fantastically and has awesome optics. I went with leupold over others just based on what I'd seen through, mostly older models, and the fact that they usually work all the time. In my situation if I was on the rifle, I would be looking at maybe a 100yd shot. We shoot to 600yds, but in an LE situation you're gonna be close. My biggest gripe is one the resale value, since I bought mine out of pocket, and two I'm just not impressed with the glass clarity really. I was mostly just complaining about resale value really. I mean MSRP on this one is like $1379 and I'm looking at several that are having trouble getting a grand for em. Now granted, some of these aren't exactly the same models, but even at that, with less than 100rds under it, I beet I'd have trouble getting $1250 for it! I'm not per say "regretting" my decision, I just think I could have got a PST or something, saved some money, and been happier, but it is what it is. </div></div>

 

[Bradu]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I'm happy with the 4.5-14 I bought about a month ago other than it doesn't have turrets. I will either send it off and have them installed or sell it and buy another Nightforce just because I love the NP-R1 reticle.

 

[quickdraw17]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

I have two Leupolds...one is a VX-I I purchased about ten years ago for a hunting rifle when I was on a tight budget. Nothing fancy, but it has survived being knocked around on various hunting trips and kept on target. My second, a Mk4, was purchased a few years ago to put on a Remington 700 I had someone put together for me. Again, great optic that has always tracked true and survived being tossed around. Both have proven to be very reliable. However, for an AR build I recently completed, I decided to go with a Vortex PST. With a lifetime warranty and more features than Leupold offered, not to mention a lower price tag, I thought I'd give them a try. I don't think the clarity is quite as good as my Mk4, but then, the PST is also half the price. I've only had the PST out once, so time will tell what the durability factor will be.

I look at it this way...I think Leupold has a great product, but as many people have said, the features just don't justify the price tag. The choice to me is simple...more features to justify the current price, or keep it the way it is and lower the price.

Just my .02

 

[BCP]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trobertson5-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They still top more LE and military(read "professional Sniper") rifles than all other scopes combined.
</div></div>

I don't know about that especially when you consider what militaries/police in other countries are using. I would think S&B at the top.

 

[trobertson5-0]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trobertson5-0</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They still top more LE and military(read "professional Sniper") rifles than all other scopes combined.
</div></div>

I don't know about that especially when you consider what militaries/police in other countries are using. I would think S&B at the top. </div></div>

I was just thinking about American. With all Army/Air force/ snipers and SDMs and anybody issued an EBR or an M107 having a Leupold on board,and every small town and city in the US having at least 1 Remington put together sniper package topped by a Leupold I bet we would still give the rest of the world a run for the money on sheer numbers of sniper weapons systems. No way to ever really know that I suppose but with a good portion of the rest of the world having unarmed or lightly armed police I would still think we win the numbers game.

 

[Gewehrsmann]

Re: So what happened to Leupold scopes?

NF is picking up tons of military orders. Leupold tops most of my rifles but I'm going to pick up a Nightforce because of the NP-R1 reticle. It's extremely simple, less math and American made as are the Leupolds. I called Leupold and talked to their sales department about adding a reticle in minutes (NP-R1). Their response was the military is buying their scopes right now with Mil Dot and they don't want to add another reticle choice. I found that funny, because Nightforce is selling out and is backordered 26 weeks or so, most of the orders going to the military. I'm guessing Leupold is a bit hide bound and simply can't adapt to a changing environment. So a competetor is starting to pick up accounts..