An insight of the future of "free" healthcare.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...n-action-supporters-alfie-evans-social-media/
R
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...n-action-supporters-alfie-evans-social-media/
R
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Socialized Medicine
- Thread starter Rthur
- Start date
I can't even imagine. Honestly, this is real Nazi shit, no hyperbole necessary. The people doing this to the family are soulless demons.
I wouldn't stand for it. I would go to war.
I wouldn't stand for it. I would go to war.
We won't have those problems because Bernie Sanders is going to make anyone that wants a government job a doctor and he will pay them $15 an hour.
We will have health care coming out our ass.
We will have health care coming out our ass.
The UK health system is a well know nightmare of evil people that enjoy killing as many "patients" as possible to get their death number quotas up.
Actual Literal stories of:
People Dying of thirst tied to their beds, begging the nurses for water
Old people being left to die in beds when about $5 of antibiotics would have cured them
People being told they have to wait for their cancer treatments till it is way too late (despite having been first diagnosed super early at great survival chance rates).
If you are old, weak, have cancer or are a baby, you really need to fear for your life and go anywhere else for care unless you want to die at one of the NHS worship centers.
The baby alphie case is so horrible because the parents have already arranged treatment outside the country that won't cost the stupid taxpayers in the UK anything & have everything ready to go, but the doctors / police / courts refuse to let them go.
They are also actively trying to kill the kid by giving the most horrendous medical care possible.
Here is a link to someone who can explain it better than I can: https://www.barnhardt.biz
But here is possibly the most telling points:
"And, lo and behold, little Alfie, after coming off the respirator that he has been on for months, and shaking off the sedatives that he had likewise been on for months, started breathing on his own. At first, the NHS refused to give him oxygen (being given oxygen is COMPLETELY NORMAL for people coming off a respirator), even though there were oxygen tanks literally feet away from Alfie in his room. Alfie’s family were told by the Italian doctors who are sitting in the waiting room to give Alfie mouth-to-mouth just in order to supplement his oxygen. The NHS finally relented and now Alfie is getting a bit of oxygen supplement and the NHS is permitting him to be given water. "
"Also, don’t miss the hidden camera footage of insiders in the NHS hospital in Liverpool admitting that the NHS is totally covering up something huge, and that they “have the numbers” to get Alfie out of there. But, no one is willing to suffer (i.e. be arrested or lose their jobs). "
So basically wanting to kill a kid in front of his parents just to prove they are all powerful.
And this is what the "Progressives" want to turn our healthcare system into.
A giant "Death Factory" for anyone not of prime use to the state coffers.
Actual Literal stories of:
People Dying of thirst tied to their beds, begging the nurses for water
Old people being left to die in beds when about $5 of antibiotics would have cured them
People being told they have to wait for their cancer treatments till it is way too late (despite having been first diagnosed super early at great survival chance rates).
If you are old, weak, have cancer or are a baby, you really need to fear for your life and go anywhere else for care unless you want to die at one of the NHS worship centers.
The baby alphie case is so horrible because the parents have already arranged treatment outside the country that won't cost the stupid taxpayers in the UK anything & have everything ready to go, but the doctors / police / courts refuse to let them go.
They are also actively trying to kill the kid by giving the most horrendous medical care possible.
Here is a link to someone who can explain it better than I can: https://www.barnhardt.biz
But here is possibly the most telling points:
"And, lo and behold, little Alfie, after coming off the respirator that he has been on for months, and shaking off the sedatives that he had likewise been on for months, started breathing on his own. At first, the NHS refused to give him oxygen (being given oxygen is COMPLETELY NORMAL for people coming off a respirator), even though there were oxygen tanks literally feet away from Alfie in his room. Alfie’s family were told by the Italian doctors who are sitting in the waiting room to give Alfie mouth-to-mouth just in order to supplement his oxygen. The NHS finally relented and now Alfie is getting a bit of oxygen supplement and the NHS is permitting him to be given water. "
"Also, don’t miss the hidden camera footage of insiders in the NHS hospital in Liverpool admitting that the NHS is totally covering up something huge, and that they “have the numbers” to get Alfie out of there. But, no one is willing to suffer (i.e. be arrested or lose their jobs). "
So basically wanting to kill a kid in front of his parents just to prove they are all powerful.
And this is what the "Progressives" want to turn our healthcare system into.
A giant "Death Factory" for anyone not of prime use to the state coffers.
The most insidious part being knowing care is available elsewhere and refusing these folks access at their own expense.
The NHS is more worried about being perceived as failing than people dying.(one could consider the latter failing as well)
R
I'd be going all John Q on their asses. This is unbelievable actually.
No single payer health care system is without rationing and witholding of care.
Even Medicare that glorioous socialized program from 1965 restricts care/ certain medications etc...
If the govt. pays the govt .tells U what care U need, how often, and how much they will pay.
Imagine the entire system one big dysfunctional VA...yes and I did work in a VAH...
Even Medicare that glorioous socialized program from 1965 restricts care/ certain medications etc...
If the govt. pays the govt .tells U what care U need, how often, and how much they will pay.
Imagine the entire system one big dysfunctional VA...yes and I did work in a VAH...
The basic issue is simple math, no matter how much you fudge the numbers, eventually you run out of other people's money & run out of people to tax & run out of the ability to hike taxes once you have nearly all people's income (In lots of Europe, 75% of your income goes to the government, usually around 50% tax and then a VAT of about 25% on everything you have bought).
The big problem is they don't want to just be open and say, we can't afford to give you this, so we won't, but you are free to go try somewhere else at your own expense. Instead they want to force you to die horribly as their hostage rather than let you go get treatment elsewhere as then they wouldn't be worshiped as the near religion they claim to be.
I've seen government health care work okay in some countries, basically the free government clinic that will see everyone and offers your basic services and basic emergency services, routine care etc. But you want something big and expensive, you'll have to arrange to get transported to a privately paid hospital after they get you stabilized & they are up front about it.
This is a heck of a topic, and what with all that I have disclosed in the 'other thread' and we have "Socialized Medicine" up here in Canuckia..... it really is quite something.
I know I personally have had to wait, for 'moderately minor' stuff in comparison. And I know of a few individuals who've had to wait over a year for some surgeries. Middle-aged folks being told "they're too young" to get their knee/hip replaced, even though it's bone-on-bone.
Like really, I'd rather enjoy life and doing things now, than wait 15ish years, before I can walk the fields hunting ducks, or sit in a boat/canoe and fish.
But regarding my 77 y/o Father In Law, and how miraculous his situation is, and how "all the stops" have been pulled,,,,, it's just "wow"
On that, I don't have words. Our system ain't the best. But it's one of them.
I know I personally have had to wait, for 'moderately minor' stuff in comparison. And I know of a few individuals who've had to wait over a year for some surgeries. Middle-aged folks being told "they're too young" to get their knee/hip replaced, even though it's bone-on-bone.
Like really, I'd rather enjoy life and doing things now, than wait 15ish years, before I can walk the fields hunting ducks, or sit in a boat/canoe and fish.
But regarding my 77 y/o Father In Law, and how miraculous his situation is, and how "all the stops" have been pulled,,,,, it's just "wow"
On that, I don't have words. Our system ain't the best. But it's one of them.
The sad thing is, this is coming in the US.
Our system has an inherent conflict at its core: the right of autonomy (you, as the patient, get to make your own decisions regardless of the consequences, as long as you are "informed"), but then you have the right to extraordinary measures to save your life, even for a few extra days (often high cost, extra pain/suffering, and requiring invasive interventions) even if your condition is the direct result of your choices (ie smoking and cancer/stroke). Is this the best use of resources (medicare OR private insurance)? If you knew the risk, shouldn't you accept the consequences? Our country doesn't work like that.
Part of living in the US is the freedom we have. Modern medicine has also become very good at saving people's lives. But with that we, as a population, have developed expectations. I hear so often "do everything" when discussing a patients care with their families. I understand their sentiment, I have family also. Should "do everything" mean the same for a 90 year old as a 10 year old? I don't know the answer to this difficult question, but I do know it costs a small fortune.
For those saying to themselves "no way would I accept government Healthcare like in the UK," Even now we have "rationing," people just don't see it as much but I often feel like I'm asking the insurance company for permission to treat someone, even for minor things. Sometimes they say no... And often I can pursued them on behalf of my patients. Soon enough the money will dry up and the government will have to bail us all out. Then it'll be up to the government to fund it. They'll hand it off to a private company for a "reasonable profit" just like the Medicare Advantage plans you see advertised. In reality, these should be named "Disadvantage plans". Sure, company says "we can do it for less! We will give you 10% less money than you planned to spend on each patient." They pay 90%, take a profit and put much less into the patients care. People with these plans are shocked when they see what they actually cover, and in general it's pretty poor and very limited. That's what we have to look forward too.
Sean the Nailer's anecdote about people not being old enough for a hip replacement is all too true in many places. They essentially hope you will die before you "come of age" to qualify. In reality, that 50 year old is the person that would actually benefit most, especially if they work and contribute to the economy. But even now in the US we CHOOSE to do hip replacements on people in their mid to late 80s! Is this smart use of limited resources? Personally, I'd say not. For now, it's "okay" cause there is money for it. But one day there won't be, and we will be in a position to choose.
(Typed on my phone, please excuse typing and grammatical errors, as well as the occasion auto text correct completely changing the meaning)
Our system has an inherent conflict at its core: the right of autonomy (you, as the patient, get to make your own decisions regardless of the consequences, as long as you are "informed"), but then you have the right to extraordinary measures to save your life, even for a few extra days (often high cost, extra pain/suffering, and requiring invasive interventions) even if your condition is the direct result of your choices (ie smoking and cancer/stroke). Is this the best use of resources (medicare OR private insurance)? If you knew the risk, shouldn't you accept the consequences? Our country doesn't work like that.
Part of living in the US is the freedom we have. Modern medicine has also become very good at saving people's lives. But with that we, as a population, have developed expectations. I hear so often "do everything" when discussing a patients care with their families. I understand their sentiment, I have family also. Should "do everything" mean the same for a 90 year old as a 10 year old? I don't know the answer to this difficult question, but I do know it costs a small fortune.
For those saying to themselves "no way would I accept government Healthcare like in the UK," Even now we have "rationing," people just don't see it as much but I often feel like I'm asking the insurance company for permission to treat someone, even for minor things. Sometimes they say no... And often I can pursued them on behalf of my patients. Soon enough the money will dry up and the government will have to bail us all out. Then it'll be up to the government to fund it. They'll hand it off to a private company for a "reasonable profit" just like the Medicare Advantage plans you see advertised. In reality, these should be named "Disadvantage plans". Sure, company says "we can do it for less! We will give you 10% less money than you planned to spend on each patient." They pay 90%, take a profit and put much less into the patients care. People with these plans are shocked when they see what they actually cover, and in general it's pretty poor and very limited. That's what we have to look forward too.
Sean the Nailer's anecdote about people not being old enough for a hip replacement is all too true in many places. They essentially hope you will die before you "come of age" to qualify. In reality, that 50 year old is the person that would actually benefit most, especially if they work and contribute to the economy. But even now in the US we CHOOSE to do hip replacements on people in their mid to late 80s! Is this smart use of limited resources? Personally, I'd say not. For now, it's "okay" cause there is money for it. But one day there won't be, and we will be in a position to choose.
(Typed on my phone, please excuse typing and grammatical errors, as well as the occasion auto text correct completely changing the meaning)
Trump care bought to you by McCaine is going to kill many many millions.
The deep state now controls your life fully from cradle to grave, you are a fucking slave.
The deep state now controls your life fully from cradle to grave, you are a fucking slave.
It's like the college system with the addition of lawsuits. When .gov/insurance makes no bill too expensive, the costs will go through the roof.
Yeah.
It would be better if we didn't even pay attention to any of it cause nothing's going to change. Millions of useful idiots being bred, educated or imported every day
In this case they can't let him leave the country because if he survives it'll throw their entire system into a mess.
I'm not a doctor, perhaps someone could educate me on what part of the Hippocratic oath requires the doctor to put the system before his patients? Honestly I think that the worst doctor I have ever had to deal with would be delighted to find out that they were wrong about a fatal diagnosis they made on a child. This Doctor (from the press accounts) sounds evil.
Hi,
O man...my attitude would definitely be "Changing" but it would not be in the direction that doctor, hospital or country would want it to change!!
Sincerely,
Theis
This is why you need the second amendment, so the doctors could clearly be in fear that if they are that evil, one day they are taking a bullet to the guts.
However being in England, I heard there is access to Machetes and Acid bottles
Unfortunately there is probably nobody left in England willing to step up and do what needs to be done to save their own families.
Except maybe some Muslims.
However being in England, I heard there is access to Machetes and Acid bottles
Unfortunately there is probably nobody left in England willing to step up and do what needs to be done to save their own families.
Except maybe some Muslims.
Sean, this isn't in any way a shot across your bow.
I quoted this article specifically in reference to this specific instance in Britain.
I'm glad your FIL has received top shelf care.
R
Situations like this are why we need to be armed on par with the police. Tranny in its purest form.
If someone tried to deny my son potentially lifesaving treatment they'd better be willing to die for it.
If someone tried to deny my son potentially lifesaving treatment they'd better be willing to die for it.
Step 1 - Get government out of healthcare
Step 2 - Get insurance out of healthcare
Step 3 - No healthcare for illegal aliens
Step 4 - Growing pains will ensure, but let the actual free market dictate costs of care/what its actually worth because you need to remove:
(a) The top heavy 'costs' of administrative and regulatory related employees who provide absolutely zero to the end user; especially when compared to actual provider staff
(b) Inflated medical billing costs due to the proliferation of insurance creating fake value
(c) Medical billing practices that basically no one can understand and is the only service in the world where you can't walk in and get a quote for a service
(d) Government/state/insurance subsidies to hospitals/providers
(e) Socialized payments; you pay for you, not for other idiots who make horrible life choices
If you can do 1-3, 4 will come and 5 will be the correction. You should be able to walk in anywhere and get a quote like you would if you were asking to have a cabinet in your kitchen built. Then you are billed, directly from the provider of the service and you pay it. The catch here is, most people will instantly think "But I can't pay 15k in cash for this" and my response to you is, if 1-4 happen, that 15k that would be billed right now by your hospital to your insurance will instead probably be somewhere around 1k. You don't think that Tylenol was really $75 do you?
It's not perfect but this is the general direction we need to go to solve anything, otherwise its just more of the same garbage going forward to where each 'new' plan is just a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy and everyone wonders why its never gotten better.
When's the last time government in any form, insurance or financial institutions have gotten involved in an existing 'service' and its improved?
Healthcare has become like our shit tax code; its so long and convoluted that we actually use that as the reason as to why we can't get rid of it.
Yeah if this was me, I wouldn't just sit there and be told tough shit.
By the way, I see England has the bullshit thought police laws in regards to saying things they deem as illegal on Facebook. I'm not sure if they're the same as in France or Sweden where basically they have gone and arrested people over Facebook posts, but I'm sure its not far behind.
Why am I the first one to think of the idea of getting a UK IP address, and making a Facebook page of me living in London and basically being the most thought police illegal asshole on the planet and just laughing my ass off knowing they can't find me?
How come when I was a kid almost every town had its own local hospital?
Every family had a family doctor. Some guy that carried a big leather bag, worked from his house and in the case of my family traded his services for the services of my plumber father.
What happened?
Regulation.
The govt decided probably because of some abuse they had to go up the ass every doctor out there and made it so onerous that the guy with the bag could no longer stay in his own general practioner practice.
Those local hospitals got killed by similar paperwork and billing services that they folded into the big conglomerate which than shut down those hospitals that were not "profitable" in accordance with their costs.
Than the courts decided that hospitals and doctors should be infallible and when someone died of an infection why not award the family several million dollars - its free money.
Than it was decided if you said you couldnt pay you would get "free" service. Im not advocating no care for those that cant pay and in emergency situations you provide care first than worry about pay but when a patter is observed and someone is identified as using the emergency room as their means to seek company or in lieu of CVS than you begin charging them what they can afford.
No one gets "free" care just as no one should exist tax free.
Every family had a family doctor. Some guy that carried a big leather bag, worked from his house and in the case of my family traded his services for the services of my plumber father.
What happened?
Regulation.
The govt decided probably because of some abuse they had to go up the ass every doctor out there and made it so onerous that the guy with the bag could no longer stay in his own general practioner practice.
Those local hospitals got killed by similar paperwork and billing services that they folded into the big conglomerate which than shut down those hospitals that were not "profitable" in accordance with their costs.
Than the courts decided that hospitals and doctors should be infallible and when someone died of an infection why not award the family several million dollars - its free money.
Than it was decided if you said you couldnt pay you would get "free" service. Im not advocating no care for those that cant pay and in emergency situations you provide care first than worry about pay but when a patter is observed and someone is identified as using the emergency room as their means to seek company or in lieu of CVS than you begin charging them what they can afford.
No one gets "free" care just as no one should exist tax free.
That was my dad with the black bag, who made house calls, and knew everyone and everything about the families he took care of. He would come home with bags of turnip greens and an occasional chicken (for real). Yes, they ran him out of business.
There is no denying our medical care is amazing with specialists but smart guys like your dad brought health care to everyone and they were likely more accessible and approachable which today would mean that those expensive chronic issues that cost millions would likely be caught earlier and than referred to a specialist probably resulting in lower costs for cures.
When they decided your dad needed to fill out forms in triplicate and his job became paperwork not healing Im guessing he couldnt stay in the business he had built.
Socialized Medicine is; the elites get everything, you get everything that is left. And it ain't much.
My dad practiced medicine 50 years...He died in 1987 when his fee was 35$/visit..
He said in 1965 Medicare would be the end of medicine as we know it...that in my lifetime I would see socialized medicine where the govt. tells U how much to charge, what and how U will treat, and how often U can see a patient..was he wrong?
No he was not wrong, but I'll bet if he is watching he wishes he was.
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