Some Vintage Gunsmithing because BuffaloWinter can't have all the fun...

sirhrmechanic

Command Sgt. Major
Full Member
Minuteman
So picked up a shotgun a few weeks ago.. but it had a Pachmeyr recoil pad on it. And a rubber pachmeyr on a nice English Double is an abomination. Plus the LOP was about an inch too long for me. And so I needed to cut back... and get it to a nice fit.

With that in mind, set out to fit a nice Horn buttplate to it. Which is easier said than done But for those who have never fitted a horn plate to a vintage rifle or shotgun... here's a few tips....

butt 6.jpg


Here's the start... a nasty Pachmeyer and a hunk of Cape Buffalo horn. That should turn into a fitted buttplate by the end of the day, river don't rise.

butt 7.jpg


Here's the rear of the stock and I plan to use the same/original holes. So first task is to mark them on the piece of horn. I took the screws from the Pachmeyer (Philips, no less) and cut them off and pointed them in the lathe. Then screwed them into the stock to make transfer punches.

butt 3b.JPEG


Then with a piece of tape on the horn, laid it in place It's way oversized) and tapped it to locate my holes.

butt 3a.JPEG


Now can drill a pair of guide holes that will be exactly on and let me drill for my machine screws.

butt 0.jpg


Now I know that any further holes I drill will be in perfect alignment with the rest of the stock. I actually then drilled the holes out a bit oversized, because the new large-headed screws for the horn plate are a bigger diameter. So drilled the holes to .157" the minor diameter of the screws.

butt 4.jpg


Here are the new (proper) screws and a screwdriver that I made to fit the .020" slots. This is hollow ground and a perfect fit for the slots. So will cause NO damage installing. Using 'carpenters wood' screwdrivers for a gun is a crime like fitting a Pachmeyer.

butt 1.jpg


Modifying the screw to exactly fit the hole and countersink drilled into the horn buttplate. Once it's fitted, the shaping can begin.

butt 3.jpg


Screws precisely fitted to the raw horn buttplate. Note some delamination around the top screw head. There turns out to be a flaw in the piece of horn. But it's not structural and adds some character. Horn is a neat material to work with. Polished, it has depth like a gem!


Because I didn't want to be constantly taking the screws in and out of the butt (that would mess up the threads), I made these pins just for locating the buttplate exactly while shaping, sanding and polishing. From here, it was scribed.
butt 5.jpg




Here is the buttplate in place with the brass studs holding the buttplate in place. Now shaping can begin.
butt 8.jpg


More to follow as I think I am limited by how many photos I can post.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
So with the plate secured, it gets scribed and then using a belt sander (with an angle set on the table) the plate is rough shaped (off the gun!) until close to the scribe line. The sides, top and toe have to follow the lines of the stock. So making sure angles are right is critical. Tape is to protect only while scribing.

1628372065674.png


With the belt sanding done, the buttplate goes into the place and electrical tape is used to protect the stock during hand filing and block sanding.

1628372265028.png


After much hand filing and hand block sanding, the buttplate is almost perfectly fitted to the stock. A few tiny areas are touched up with files. Also note that shaping is taking place to put in a gentle curve and to shape the toe and top curve. I put a bit of an asymmetric curve in it to fit my shoulder better.

butt 9.jpg


Now polishing begins... which starts with 280 sandpaper and goes to 1000 before going on a buffer.

After buffing with several grades of rouge, make some small modifications to the screws and the plates to put both slots vertical. And fit to the stock ready to go for engraving.

butt 10.jpg


Not bad for a day's work... and beats paying a gunsmith. Though the risk of whacking the stock while filing did add to the stress level considerably more than writing a check. But the satisfaction is worth it. And electrical tape on top of masking tape does an excellent job of protecting the stock during shaping and close fitting. But it is a bit thick. So the last part of the process is all hand filing. And hand block sanding. Careful wins the race.

butt 11.jpg


If anything, it's a bit too shiny. But horn will oxidize over time. It's got an amazing depth to it and looks like it was made for the gun! Which, technically, it was!

A good day's work!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
What a fantastic post, thank you very much!
Please post pictures of it after the engraving.
DW
Thanks!

Actually, this was the first time I've ever made or fitted a horn buttplate. Go big or go home, I guess.

But it's just re-purposing other skills from different 'stuff.' Like @buffalowinter and I talked about in a post a few years ago... after a while, you just look at something and know how to do it. The big hurdle (and I joked about this with a buddy this morning...) is simply not f*^%ing up.

Next project is to restore an antique case for this gun... I am already jealous of BW's Lugar case ;-) I watched a couple of videos on felting... shouldn't be too hard.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
So picked up a shotgun a few weeks ago.. but it had a Pachmeyr recoil pad on it. And a rubber pachmeyr on a nice English Double is an abomination. Plus the LOP was about an inch too long for me. And so I needed to cut back... and get it to a nice fit.

With that in mind, set out to fit a nice Horn buttplate to it. Which is easier said than done But for those who have never fitted a horn plate to a vintage rifle or shotgun... here's a few tips....

View attachment 7681429

Here's the start... a nasty Pachmeyer and a hunk of Cape Buffalo horn. That should turn into a fitted buttplate by the end of the day, river don't rise.

View attachment 7681430

Here's the rear of the stock and I plan to use the same/original holes. So first task is to mark them on the piece of horn. I took the screws from the Pachmeyer (Philips, no less) and cut them off and pointed them in the lathe. Then screwed them into the stock to make transfer punches.

View attachment 7681428

Then with a piece of tape on the horn, laid it in place It's way oversized) and tapped it to locate my holes.

View attachment 7681427

Now can drill a pair of guide holes that will be exactly on and let me drill for my machine screws.

View attachment 7681426

Now I know that any further holes I drill will be in perfect alignment with the rest of the stock. I actually then drilled the holes out a bit oversized, because the new large-headed screws for the horn plate are a bigger diameter. So drilled the holes to .157" the minor diameter of the screws.

View attachment 7681433

Here are the new (proper) screws and a screwdriver that I made to fit the .020" slots. This is hollow ground and a perfect fit for the slots. So will cause NO damage installing. Using 'carpenters wood' screwdrivers for a gun is a crime like fitting a Pachmeyer.

View attachment 7681431

Modifying the screw to exactly fit the hole and countersink drilled into the horn buttplate. Once it's fitted, the shaping can begin.

View attachment 7681432

Screws precisely fitted to the raw horn buttplate. Note some delamination around the top screw head. There turns out to be a flaw in the piece of horn. But it's not structural and adds some character. Horn is a neat material to work with. Polished, it has depth like a gem!


Because I didn't want to be constantly taking the screws in and out of the butt (that would mess up the threads), I made these pins just for locating the buttplate exactly while shaping, sanding and polishing. From here, it was scribed.
View attachment 7681434



Here is the buttplate in place with the brass studs holding the buttplate in place. Now shaping can begin. View attachment 7681435

More to follow as I think I am limited by how many photos I can post.

Cheers,

Sirhr
Dam NICE!!!
 
So with the plate secured, it gets scribed and then using a belt sander (with an angle set on the table) the plate is rough shaped (off the gun!) until close to the scribe line. The sides, top and toe have to follow the lines of the stock. So making sure angles are right is critical. Tape is to protect only while scribing.

View attachment 7681442

With the belt sanding done, the buttplate goes into the place and electrical tape is used to protect the stock during hand filing and block sanding.

View attachment 7681443

After much hand filing and hand block sanding, the buttplate is almost perfectly fitted to the stock. A few tiny areas are touched up with files. Also note that shaping is taking place to put in a gentle curve and to shape the toe and top curve. I put a bit of an asymmetric curve in it to fit my shoulder better.

View attachment 7681439

Now polishing begins... which starts with 280 sandpaper and goes to 1000 before going on a buffer.

After buffing with several grades of rouge, make some small modifications to the screws and the plates to put both slots vertical. And fit to the stock ready to go for engraving.

View attachment 7681440

Not bad for a day's work... and beats paying a gunsmith. Though the risk of whacking the stock while filing did add to the stress level considerably more than writing a check. But the satisfaction is worth it. And electrical tape on top of masking tape does an excellent job of protecting the stock during shaping and close fitting. But it is a bit thick. So the last part of the process is all hand filing. And hand block sanding. Careful wins the race.

View attachment 7681441

If anything, it's a bit too shiny. But horn will oxidize over time. It's got an amazing depth to it and looks like it was made for the gun! Which, technically, it was!

A good day's work!

Cheers,

Sirhr
Gorgeous P, well done ! (y)
 
Do you plan on giving details on that Purdey? It appears to be a very early Beasley action? 1890’s-1915? Whitworth or Damascus steel? Sound condition?

Very nice mineral streaked stock!

Details please.
 
Last edited:
Do you plan on giving details on that Purdey? It appears to be a very early Beasley action? 1890’s-1915? Whitworth or Damascus steel? Sound condition?

Very nice mineral streaked stock!

Details please.
1897 2 1/2" shell upland gun. Extraordinarily small and light action with 28" barrels (fluid steel) choked Cyl and Mod. One of a pair and I am trying to find the 'other' one now. It is in absolute perfect mechanical condition. Wasn't used at some castle to shoot 10K rounds a year at driven grouse. So is just as tight as a drum!

Next phase... case restoration... See below ;-)

Sirhr
 
So I'll just keep this thread going... as I started to work on restoring a case that 'may' end up with this gun. But may also end up with a lovely little Army and Navy 12 bore that I got a few years ago.

It's a fine London case marked with a Vice Admiral's name... Jervis Tucker. His career is well known. The case was 'restored' by someone who sprayed it full of contact cement and felt from Hobby Lobby... and largely destroyed it. Also was badly damaged and cracked. With contact cement poured into cracks to try and fix them. %$#@ers...

So today, I ripped out the guts and have started to restore it properly. Again, have not decided 'which' gun it will hold. The Self-opener above will look lovely. But the Army and Navy will just be so... fitting for a V.Adm. I'll see. It's definitely not a S. Audley St. case... unless special ordered. That said, what you asked for in Edwardian England you got. So could easily have held a Purdey or an Army Navy. Who knows.

Here's what I started with. Looks fine in photos. In person... an abomination. Fortunately was cheap and came with a pile of 'case accessories' that together were worth more than what I paid. So there is that.

case 8.jpg


First step was to rip the crap out of it. Pieces of pressure treated 2 x 4 covered in crap felt and held together with contact cement. Lame. Sadly, they had slathered the contact cement everywhere. In cracks to keep them together. Stuck the felt to the case, not to card stock. So everything has to be scraped down (not sanded... because the contact cement gums up every sand paper sheet. So scraping it is. Until down to bare wood.

case 7.jpg


Butterknife thing above is a tool I adapted years ago for separating wood that was glued and falling apart. Works brilliantly. Here you can see it below cleaving off one of the damaged pieces of wood that was half-attached. And in the 'crack' was years of detritus and new contact cement gumming up everything.

case 5.jpg


This shows the case lid with a piece of masonite removed that had been used to 'try' and stabilize some cracks. And had covered up the nuts to get the handle off. It was glued in place with gobs of contact cement as well. Did not want to come off. But got it off and have started to stabilize/re-glue the cracks after cleaning them. At some point in this case's life, someone dropped something heavy on it and shattered the top and one corner of the bottom. It took a HARD hit. All repairable. But going to take time. Also, several of the corners have had the lovely brass square nails replaced with screws... and one is broken. So they will have to be re-welded and refit/shaped.

case 6.jpg


Below is the very unusual center handle and brass inlay work. No leather handles or straps on this case. So when making the insides, Balance is going to have to be taken into account. Can't have it flopping to one side, can I? Note the huge cracks... and the engraving. The cracks will repair. The whole case will be scraped/sanded down to bare wood and re-finished in orange shellac as original.

case 4.jpg


Here is the base of the case being held together with a couple of bessie clamps while the glue sets up. The edges were sprung, but not full of crap. So with carpenters glue, set them up and clamped. Then aligned box on smooth concrete floor to set.
case 3.jpg


Here is the lid having one of the small (unknown) cracks fixe before I hit the big one. The big crack is going to need major cleaning. This small one was a hairline and invisible until I got pieces off the side. These are easy to fix with carpenters glue and clamping. It's the ones that are full of crap that are a PITA. Don't let cracks get full of crap!

case 2.jpg


Case bottom left for the day with some weight aligning it as the glue sets. Between the Bessie clamps and the weight of the chucks, it will dry flat and hold its shape with the joints glued.

case 1.jpg


Hope to have the 'guts' built next weekend (along with the rest of the restoration of the outer case.) Then felting will commence. I may have to ask BW how he did his Luger case felt. Because it's exceptional and it is really hard to do well. And a lot of the online videos suck.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Last edited:
Oh and because I am a somewhat curmudgeonly guy who always calls out my complaints when I see them... I do make an effort to call out 'great service' when I come across it.

I got the screws and horn buttplate blank from Galazan/Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing. I'd ordered a horn blank off Fleabay and it was garbage. Too small, looked like it was made by people who use their toes in lieu of a bench vice. Not flat... and structurally delaminating and unsound.

Wanting to do this project this weekend, I called CSMC around 1 PM on Thursday, knowing that UPS Ground would get to Schloss Nitrocellulose by COB friday. A lovely young lady took my order... then at 3 PM I CHANGED my order... to add some new stuff. And she, again, was a delight. And sure enough on Friday by about 6 pm... the stuff showed up.

CSMC/Galazan is a wonderful company to deal with. Old guns... old doubles... and old world customer/client service. That's what I'm talking about.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Oh and because I am a somewhat curmudgeonly guy who always calls out my complaints when I see them... I do make an effort to call out 'great service' when I come across it.

I got the screws and horn buttplate blank from Galazan/Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing. I'd ordered a horn blank off Fleabay and it was garbage. Too small, looked like it was made by people who use their toes in lieu of a bench vice. Not flat... and structurally delaminating and unsound.

Wanting to do this project this weekend, I called CSMC around 1 PM on Thursday, knowing that UPS Ground would get to Schloss Nitrocellulose by COB friday. A lovely young lady took my order... then at 3 PM I CHANGED my order... to add some new stuff. And she, again, was a delight. And sure enough on Friday by about 6 pm... the stuff showed up.

CSMC/Galazan is a wonderful company to deal with. Old guns... old doubles... and old world customer/client service. That's what I'm talking about.

Cheers,

Sirhr
I just checked out the website, lots of gorgeous stuff! And Expensive!!
DW
 
Oh and because I am a somewhat curmudgeonly guy who always calls out my complaints when I see them... I do make an effort to call out 'great service' when I come across it.

I got the screws and horn buttplate blank from Galazan/Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing. I'd ordered a horn blank off Fleabay and it was garbage. Too small, looked like it was made by people who use their toes in lieu of a bench vice. Not flat... and structurally delaminating and unsound.

Wanting to do this project this weekend, I called CSMC around 1 PM on Thursday, knowing that UPS Ground would get to Schloss Nitrocellulose by COB friday. A lovely young lady took my order... then at 3 PM I CHANGED my order... to add some new stuff. And she, again, was a delight. And sure enough on Friday by about 6 pm... the stuff showed up.

CSMC/Galazan is a wonderful company to deal with. Old guns... old doubles... and old world customer/client service. That's what I'm talking about.

Cheers,

Sirhr
All about shouting out the companies who are solid in our industry. I’m not personally an old double guy but they are on my radar if I ever have the need.
 
And here I am patting myself on the back for building a couple fireplace mantles from MDF molding, Elmers, finish nails and caulk🤣. I’ll take my ball and go home now.

Fantastic work.
Hey... You did something. That's more than 99 percent of the gerbils who can't even plug in a toaster.

Don't take your ball and go home. Give yourself some amazing kudos for DOING something! That most can't or won't go.

Welcome to the 'do it' not 'buy it' club. We're awesome!

Sirhr
 
. You sir, are an artist👍👍
Actually, not at all. Not an artistic bone in my body. I'm a mechanic. A craftsman... to a degree. A machinist. A restoration specialist.

But no artistic skill at all. I subscribe to the maxim "What was first the work of masters, later becomes the work of tinsmiths."

I am a tinsmith... a tinker. A follower of other people's crafts.

Sirhr
 
A RESTORATION SPECIALIST

You need this on a Plaque over your Shop door.

I enjoy scanning the backgrounds of your photos for cool stuff and future projects!!
 
So didn't get in a whole lot of time on this little project... but as it was hotter than stink this afternoon... spent some time in an air-conditioned shop.

Bottom of the case ready to start putting in divisions. Cracks repaired. The 'lip' pieces all cleaned up and the crap taken off them. Pieces glued together and clamped. Bottom is rugged now! Still need to do some sanding... but I plan on doing the whole external stripping as an 'assembled' box to help line things up.
tucker box 1.jpg


Lid... continuing to work on this. Major cracks. And all the lip pieces were broken/cracked and the cracks were filled with %$#@ing contact cement. So nothing would ever glue back together without breaking everything off and scraping off all the old glue and crud. Then putting back together with proper carpenters glue. One major crack still has to be fixed on lid, but I need the flanges on to get it straight.
tucker box 2.jpg



Here is what I am talking about with 'crap' glue being used all over the broken pieces. Someone just slopped glue into open cracks.... that were filled with debris, old glue, splinters, etc. This just destroys fine wordwork. Don't do it.
tucker box 3.jpg


Here is the lip removed and stripped of crud. On the 'lid'the glue and some of the masonite is still there. It's all getting scraped off with chisels. Slow. But preserves the wood.

tucker box 4.jpg


Here is the crack in the top of the case. A stunning walnut board, but badly cracked. This will get clamped and aligned with the bottom and left to harden up. After the broken faces of wood are cleaned spotless of old glue and debris. This crack won't be invisible, but with some good filler, it will mostly disappear, I think!
tucker box 5.jpg


Here is the top lid crack... see all the old glue and crap? This is what is going to have to go away. Chisel and X-Acto knife will take care of it. And time.
tucker box 6.jpg


Case corners repaired and welded up. They will get re-polished and re-fitted and little square nails will lock them in place. Though they will get bedded in JB Kwik for both strength and ease of fitting.
tucker box 7.jpg


Case corner roughly in place. It will be closely fitted and look great when it's done.
tucker box 8.jpg


Just a neat shot showing the 'old' glue. Note it's almost 1/16" thick and has no rigidity. It is just a mushy mass of contact cement... THE wrong thing to use on wood. Ever.


tucker box 9.jpg


Tomorrow I think I'll get a good day in and get all the partitions done and the top glued together. Ready for external finishing and felting.

Long process, but well worth it for such an amazing bit of history.

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
Oh, this is an early effort I made at making a presentation case.... The lining is a bit raggedy. But it shows well until you start looking too close. Made all the case accessories and tools, too.

1628978079669.png


And if it looks at all out of whack...


.
.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

That's because it is. Miniature.

1628978156928.png


Firearms appreciation takes many forms...

Sirhr
 
Do your mini shooters go boom? How about those mini naval mines I remember?
I have a couple that do. Did I post the finished Puckle Gun, BTW?

One has the smallest cartridge ever made. An Alex Baez Colt from his Mexico City days. Silver. Bisley.

Here's the update on the shotgun case.... This is what is "most likely" going in it. But I may also mix and match a few bits. We'll see (actually, I did....) But in the first photo, this is what I'm working with. Gun is an amazing late 19th century Army-Navy 12 Gauge damascus gun. Weights 6 pounds. It was lengthened probably in the 30's with a thick horn buttplate. I'm leaving it be, because it fits me like a glove.

1629061999378.png


So after starting the layout, it was clear that I'd have to flip a few things around... the dividers are glued into place so far with a case cover on the right, the barrels and forend lining up. And blocks in place to hold the boxlock action... with one drilled for 12 ga cases. 2.5" brass in this case. On the left are oiler, vaseline jar and Stand Selector set in an original box. Thank you eBay!
1629062131326.png



90 percent finished, with just some thin spacers to add. Once the lid is fitted , felting can begin. For this gun (an Army Navy) I am going to use a dark blue felt which keeps up on the Admiral/Navy theme. All the case accessories are antiques of one type or another.

1629062385388.png


The lid... holy crap the lid... After hours of scraping, cleaning, shaving with chisels and even wire-brushing.... it's now sitting under 100 lbs of iron with bessie clamps and c-clamps all over it... and I think finally it will be all back together. It was riddled with cracks, joint issues. Cracked/shattered wood. Corners destroyed. I 'think' that tomorrow, with the clamps removed, it will be ready for final sanding and finishing. Maybe will need a bit of planing. But I think it's going to be GTG.
1629062524711.png


Some more pictures tomorrow, but finishing will wait until next weekend. And I am not even sure I can felt it in a day. But we'll see.

It's coming out great. I have another to do after this one. But this is really teaching me a lot about how these things were made and finished. Most fun!

Sirhr
 
Man, I wish I could help with that case! That would be a fun restoration! It looks really great!

Was that contact cement or hide glue?

Order you up some card scrapers and a carbide burnisher.

Keep an eye on the wood glue repaired cracks. Did you make a paste of glue and sawdust to gap fill, or were you able to clamp them back closed with just glue?

Parallel bar clamps are what you need for gluing the panels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Average guy
Thanks BFC... the Bessie clamps are a good substitute. I have some big wood parallel bar clamps. But these were at hand.

The gaps are wood glue (Elmers Carpenters Glue) which works great. But I weighted the application to the 'inside' of the crack, so at the top surface, I can have a small open crack to fill with sawdust and elmers mix. It 'should' work. I've done it before on some car wood... dashboards mainly, and it's worked.

Been saving sawdust!

Great advice... you've done this before, I can tell!

Sirhr
 
Something I use for scraping off a ton of crap is a carbide paint scraper. Works great for what you’re dealing with.

For thinner glue, finishes, and crud I’ll use card scrapers.

Just go slow with them until you get the hang of how hard they’ll bite!

You said you’re going to use shellac? Do you know what cut was used? I have a bunch of shellac flakes and can send you some to play with.

Can’t wait to see the finished case!
 
Card scrapers are incredible.

Never knew of them until I was working a stock to fit a buttplate and I wanted to relieve soot marks to fully seat the plate.

I could remove an atom of material or gouge out a chunk at will.

Mans first sand paper...it would create a fine surface, smooth as a boys a..., I mean a baby's ass.

I need to learn now how to burnish mine sharp again, shouldn't be hard should I choose to slide my reload press back and mount my vice.
 
December case 1.jpg


So when I last left this case, it was done inside, but had lid fit issues. The shrinkage, cracking, etc. meant the halves were not wanting to go together.

With some milling and some ripping and some sanding I got the lid and the base to fit. And today, in a marathon session, got all the corners and inlays back on. Wow... what a job. About 8 hours with chisels, blue and X-acto knives. And some of the corners needed 'blacksmithing' to pound in to shape. But now all ready for burnish and I can stain tomorrow and probably shellac on Sunday. Then inside needs felt.

Getting here...

Sirhr
december case 2.jpg
 
And a bit more on the 'case' front today... Not the Army Navy case, but a period-looking case for a Confederate Whitworth sniper rifle (Pedersoli repro.)

Box made of cedar. It's 'sort of' like the originals. Though there are very few original surviving and they are all a bit different. So I just made something that I like.
whitworth case 1.jpg


Long Reach funnel I made to use and go in the case. Turned from a solid brass bar with a brass tube soldered on . These were used to deliver the powder closer to the chamber than just pouring it down the muzzle. This led to better filling and more consistent shots.
whitworth case 2.jpg


Hexagonal boolits... for the Whitworth. These are as-cast. Drop poured. My 'new generation' are hand poured from a ladle and much better.
whitworth case 3.jpg


Piecing the compartments and box together. The three compartments at top with the ebony blocks in them will have covers with knobs on them.
whitworth case 4.jpg


Paper patched whitworth bullets.
whitworth case 5.jpg


All fun time in the shop over this Christmas weekend.

Cheers,

Sirhr