Source for steel E-type targets?

[longebow]

Hide Members:

I am assisting a friend put together a 900 yard rifle range and he wants steel E-type targets ( 1 meter high x 19-20 inches) that will withstand up to .338 LM.

Looking for recommendations on quality targets that are built to last. Due to their weight, expect these to be on a stand, and not hanging.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

longebow

 

[striped1]

MGM Targets

Here is one they have -

https://mgmtargets.com/product/tac-e-silhouette-with-armor-plate-post-and-tube-base/?v=0b3b97fa6688#

 

[longebow]

thank you!

 

[Trigger Monkey]

https://targets.net/products/c-38-e-silhouette-steel-target

https://brunnertargets.com/e-type-40x20-with-stand-b60-t170

Here's a couple additional options

 

[Terry Cross]

Hide Members:

I am assisting a friend put together a 900 yard rifle range and he wants steel E-type targets ( 1 meter high x 19-20 inches) that will withstand up to .338 LM.

Looking for recommendations on quality targets that are built to last. Due to their weight, expect these to be on a stand, and not hanging.

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

longebow

Contact Ryan at BigDogSteel before you buy.
World class targets AND hangar systems.

https://bigdogsteel.com/

 

[Mike Casselton]

There's also a company in Tampa that makes steel targets. Can't recall the name at the moment, but I'll see what I can find.

Dumb question:
Why do you want a target that's 1 Meter tall (39.37") and measured in inches across its width?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Grizzly Targets
(813) 374-0548

Shoot No Shoot: Targets for Real Life Training Scenarios

Shoot No Shoot targets are advanced training targets designed to simulate real-life scenarios. Ideal for LEO, Gov, Military, Ranges, and Distributors.

www.grizzlytargets.com

 

[longebow]

The reason for 1 meter high and 19 inches wide:

The standard E-type target was designed to approximate the "average" male from crotch to the top of the head, and the width of the "average" male at the shoulders.

The mil relation formula is based on targets that are 1 meter in height. The USMC fixed 10x Unertl was based on this. This allows the shooter to both range estimate and perform hold offs with the mil dot reticle. The Army later adopted the Leupold 10x Ultra/Mark 4 with a similar reticle pattern.

Prior to the above mil dot scopes, the Army adopted the ArTel (adjustable ranging telescope) scope in the VN war that was the "first operational" first focal plane variable (3-9x) and had stadia lines for a 1 meter target. It really was revolutionary, as it combined range finding (bracket the target) and then shoot (as the cam elevated the scope mechanically for the proper range with the issued M118 ammunition. I used a M21 with ArTel scope in the 101st Division sniper school in 1988. My lead instructor was SFC (retired) Joe White, may this gentle man of God rest in peace...

There are threads on the Hide discussing first and second focal plane optics in detail.

Many mil/LE scopes now offer reticles based on the 1 meter height and 19 inches width for range estimation and/or hold offs.

I hope that this helps.

longebow

 

[Mike Casselton]

The reason for 1 meter high and 19 inches wide:

The standard E-type target was designed to approximate the "average" male from crotch to the top of the head, and the width of the "average" male at the shoulders.

The mil relation formula is based on targets that are 1 meter in height. The USMC fixed 10x Unertl was based on this. This allows the shooter to both range estimate and perform hold offs with the mil dot reticle. The Army later adopted the Leupold 10x Ultra/Mark 4 with a similar reticle pattern.

Prior to the above mil dot scopes, the Army adopted the ArTel (adjustable ranging telescope) scope in the VN war that was the "first operational" first focal plane variable (3-9x) and had stadia lines for a 1 meter target. It really was revolutionary, as it combined range finding (bracket the target) and then shoot (as the cam elevated the scope mechanically for the proper range with the issued M118 ammunition. I used a M21 with ArTel scope in the 101st Division sniper school in 1988. My lead instructor was SFC (retired) Joe White, may this gentle man of God rest in peace...

There are threads on the Hide discussing first and second focal plane optics in detail.

Many mil/LE scopes now offer reticles based on the 1 meter height and 19 inches width for range estimation and/or hold offs.

I hope that this helps.

longebow

That's pretty much what I thought.

It just sounds so Army to mix meters/metric with feet/inches/fps.

 

[FatBoy]

We have been shooting these guys steel for years. They sponsor the steel at the Legion Memorial matches, etc.

https://innovativetargets.net/

As well as

KRATE Tactical

KRATE Tactical manufactures the toughest, most durable AR500 steel shooting targets on the market, as well as a wide assortment of target mounting accessories.

kratetactical.com

Extremely happy with both companies, and they give a lot back to the community through sponsorship and donations. Give them a look.

 

[carbonbased]

Ok, dumb question. What does the “E” in E Targets stand for?

I first thought it was about those electronic shot marker flashing lights that go off once you hit the target? Maybe those lights require a certain type/construction of a steel target?

I did some googling but didn’t find exactly what an e target is. I thought you could just attach a shot marker on any steel target and go to town.

Edit: it appears I may be using the term “shot marker” wrong, as that seems to be an acoustic system that actually measures groups?

 

[sinister]

Contact Ryan at BigDogSteel before you buy.
World class targets AND hangar systems.

https://bigdogsteel.com/

Chris, this right here.

Many schools use the IPSC profile instead of the Meter-tall E-type. More challenging but doesn't necessarily help teach or sustain mil-ranging to a cherry. I suppose all Gen-Z snipers carry two or three laser rangefinders now and no longer need boomer dot or hash reticles.

Heads are generally 10"x10" ( 1/4 Meter or 250). Mid-line (spine) to edge is 1/4 Meter or 250. Edge-to-edge is 1/2 Meter or 500.

I have two of Ryan's 1/2" water-cut AR500 E-types on 4x4 stands that laugh at M2 .50 cal rounds at 500 yards. I had 3/8" targets and angle iron stands made at steel yards in Albuquerque and Salt Lake City.

When I build steel farms I'll usually put the 5'10" (1.8 Meters or 1800) silhouettes at 1,000 and beyond -- blow a range call and you can still catch a leg hit and adjust-record your DOPE. Order 5'7" (1.7 Meter or 1700) targets if you need scaled Chinaman-sized E-types.

These youtubes show Ryan's Big Dog Steel 4x4 posts:

1300-Meter hits:

 

[longebow]

Thank you Dave!

Ouch! Never thought that as fellow "boomers" we would be so quickly labeled/identified by our preference for "vintage" optics and TTPs...

I still don't trust my life to battery powered devices, they always seem to go down at the worst possible times...

Chris

 

[carbonbased]

Ok, dumb question. What does the “E” in E Targets stand for?

I first thought it was about those electronic shot marker flashing lights that go off once you hit the target? Maybe those lights require a certain type/construction of a steel target?

I did some googling but didn’t find exactly what an e target is. I thought you could just attach a shot marker on any steel target and go to town.

Edit: it appears I may be using the term “shot marker” wrong, as that seems to be an acoustic system that actually measures groups?

Bueller? Bueller? Lol

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I don't believe the "E" really stands for anything, it's simply one of the designations the military used for silhouette targets, there's an "E-Type Silhouette" (Full torso) and a "F-Type Silhouette" (Head and shoulders). It doesn't have to do with electronic anything, it's a reference to a particular target shape.

The ALT C qualification target shows both types for reference.

 

[sinister]

"A" or "Able" target (200 and 300 yards):

B or Baker (500 and 600):

C Target:

D or Dog:

E target:

E-type left, F-type right:

 

[carbonbased]

Thx guys for helping me out! For some reason that explanation didn’t pop up high enough in the search results for me to see it. Maybe it was the terms I used ?

Anyway, thanks again!

 

[JR1200W3]

I've had steel cut in quite a few places in the world. Aside from a vendor, there's a lot of steel suppliers that can do it. It needs to start off as AR500(Brinell 550 hardness) and then it needs to be cut with a water jet. Anything else will reduce the hardness. I work for an organization that had steel targets made and then had them tested(there's surprisingly few certified places to test the hardness) and found they were getting ripped off.

As far as 338LM, I don't think there's anything specific required in terms of steel hardness for that cartridge but where you're going to want to be deliberate is the mounting or hanger system. Welded brackets will separate over time. Bolts can work but require replacement often. The slotted hole and hook hanger like JC steel targets is the better way to go IMO. For a 3/8" steel E you need a big ass stand. We had them made from 2" tube steel. A set of "feet" (H square), two legs, and the then the bracket welded on the back of the steel (not preferred).