Spine Injury’s

[RNWRKNP]

With the advent of Poppagate yesterday it was suggested that a thread be started for discussion. Well, for better or worse, here we go. Had a discectomy at age 28 at which time the doc took care of the disk as well as removed some bone to open up the spinal column due to it being genetically narrow. Spin the clock forward 20 years and no problems with exception to injections that relieved pain due to stupid shit that was my fault. 2 years ago I started to limp and thought I should get it checked but busy and didn’t. Little over a year ago I fried one disk and tore another in the same lower lumbar area (L3-4, 4-5). Discectomy March of last year that didn’t resolve the nerve pain on the left but cleared the right. Doc points out that the L4-5 level only has 4mm of elevation with 17mm as healthy (think I’m remembering that correctly) Due to the elevation degradation the bone structure was pushing into the S1 system causing the problem with nerve pain on the left. Was informed that I could do a fusion now to correct the current problem but that by age 60 a fusion was inevitable. Surgery at 50 or 60? I’ll take 50 for the door prize Monte.... That was in July 17. Tried rehab but even simple things set off the left side again down to the knee. Serious atrophy in the left calf and I understand why old men carry guns.....I can’t run? Sitting for extended periods of time is a no go as I can’t hold the position. Tried multiple injections again but without success, the left lights back up with the extended seated position. I can bend and touch my toes, I just can’t hold the position. Had my left hip checked by a national top gun who tells me it looks great. Neuro says I’m all clear with no impingement......WTF?

Has anyone tried DC current physical therapy?

 

[Strykervet]

Damn, I certainly feel for 'ya brother. I have back problems and feet problems and all I can say from experience is to stop doing whatever when you feel sciatica start down your butt before it gets to the legs, and try not to have flareups, the longer you go between them the less you have overall. You build up strength. You want a stronger core, so swimming is good. Or treading water, get some exercises from your PT. It takes time but it heals slow and you get back a lot of what you lost but if you have weak legs I'm willing to bet you have radiculopathy or nerve damage in the legs. I've had tests done the right way and the wrong way and you can guess which one showed a problem. You wanna avoid more of this, so like I said, when you have back pain, try to stop and rest but when you feel it spreading, going down your butt or leg, STOP. Heal. Rest up. Ice packs help, naproxen helps, both for swelling, and gabapentin works well for nerve pain and restless legs and other nerve related leg/sciatica issues.

Not a doctor, but in the same boat more or less. I let VA cut my feet, big fuckup. Won't let 'em touch my back. So be careful, make decisions wisely.

Good luck!

 

[RNWRKNP]

Damn, I certainly feel for 'ya brother. I have back problems and feet problems and all I can say from experience is to stop doing whatever when you feel sciatica start down your butt before it gets to the legs, and try not to have flareups, the longer you go between them the less you have overall. You build up strength. You want a stronger core, so swimming is good. Or treading water, get some exercises from your PT. It takes time but it heals slow and you get back a lot of what you lost but if you have weak legs I'm willing to bet you have radiculopathy or nerve damage in the legs. I've had tests done the right way and the wrong way and you can guess which one showed a problem. You wanna avoid more of this, so like I said, when you have back pain, try to stop and rest but when you feel it spreading, going down your butt or leg, STOP. Heal. Rest up. Ice packs help, naproxen helps, both for swelling, and gabapentin works well for nerve pain and restless legs and other nerve related leg/sciatica issues.

Not a doctor, but in the same boat more or less. I let VA cut my feet, big fuckup. Won't let 'em touch my back. So be careful, make decisions wisely.

Good luck!

Sorry to hear your in the same boat amigo and do just as you suggest, the furnace starts up I shut her down. How did you injure your feet? Is there a specific technique or techniques that work well for you? Did you try water therapy and was it effective? I refuse to let it pin me down but it certainly puts a dent in my rodeo at times. When quail season rolled around it was a small Gregory pack, water bladder, shells and give’m hell. Tune the pack with almost 0 weight on my back. May not walk as pretty as years gone by but the quail are just as dead.? Neuro is actually a top gun researched by my wife who is a nurse. She spoke directly to the nurses at the hospital that do all of his post op and every one of them said he was the guy so feel pretty good about my decision there. The DC current or wave therapy interests me......the thought behind it is to activate the large muscle groups again so that the stabilizers aren’t trying to do all of the work. Their thought is that is what is causing the problem. Interesting to see if anyone else has tried it and going to give it a spin.?

 

[mdmp5]

With the advent of Poppagate yesterday it was suggested that a thread be started for discussion. Well, for better or worse, here we go. Had a discectomy at age 28 at which time the doc took care of the disk as well as removed some bone to open up the spinal column due to it being genetically narrow. Spin the clock forward 20 years and no problems with exception to injections that relieved pain due to stupid shit that was my fault. 2 years ago I started to limp and thought I should get it checked but busy and didn’t. Little over a year ago I fried one disk and tore another in the same lower lumbar area (L3-4, 4-5). Discectomy March of last year that didn’t resolve the nerve pain on the left but cleared the right. Doc points out that the L4-5 level only has 4mm of elevation with 17mm as healthy (think I’m remembering that correctly) Due to the elevation degradation the bone structure was pushing into the S1 system causing the problem with nerve pain on the left. Was informed that I could do a fusion now to correct the current problem but that by age 60 a fusion was inevitable. Surgery at 50 or 60? I’ll take 50 for the door prize Monte.... That was in July 17. Tried rehab but even simple things set off the left side again down to the knee. Serious atrophy in the left calf and I understand why old men carry guns.....I can’t run? Sitting for extended periods of time is a no go as I can’t hold the position. Tried multiple injections again but without success, the left lights back up with the extended seated position. I can bend and touch my toes, I just can’t hold the position. Had my left hip checked by a national top gun who tells me it looks great. Neuro says I’m all clear with no impingement......WTF?

Has anyone tried DC current physical therapy?

View attachment 6909521

You have a loss of the lumbar curve, which is correctible, but it takes work, not surgery. Your L4-L5 shouldn't be collapsing if you had a proper fusion. I can see what looks to be an implant in the disc space, toward the anterior portion of the vertebral body, and a hinging effect posteriorly. You need work in strengthening and posture. Just going to the gym and doing squats and deadlifts isn't gonna do it, though I doubt you can do that much anyway. I'm talking simple shit, like arching your back with a fulcrum and moving your hips. Strengthen the psoas muscles.

You also have severe narrowing of L5-S1, which is likely contributing to your calf too.

 

[RNWRKNP]

You have a loss of the lumbar curve, which is correctible, but it takes work, not surgery. Your L4-L5 shouldn't be collapsing if you had a proper fusion. I can see what looks to be an implant in the disc space, toward the anterior portion of the vertebral body, and a hinging effect posteriorly. You need work in strengthening and posture. Just going to the gym and doing squats and deadlifts isn't gonna do it, though I doubt you can do that much anyway. I'm talking simple shit, like arching your back with a fulcrum and moving your hips. Strengthen the psoas muscles.

You also have severe narrowing of L5-S1, which is likely contributing to your calf too.

Appreciate the input and thank you. L4-5 is stable and the X-rays after the fact show positive growth. What your seeing at 4-5 is a bone graft. Are you aware of ARP Wave PT for the purpose of stimulating the large muscle groups so that the stabilizers are not doing all the work? Pretty new and was recommended by the guy that looked at my hip to rule it out. Seeing my Doc today and going to ask about it but want an order for PT either way. I know what positions set me off and want to at least work with the things that I know won’t sent me off and maybe work up to the things that do. I let them take control last time and only lasted 1 session with my left leg and hip lit up. Thoughts?

 

[mdmp5]

I’m not familiar with the actual tech but I can understand it. The one thing most allopaths are going to ignore is posture. They are more about treating symptoms and not the foundation.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Gotcha. Was thinking the ARP Wave in conjunction with a PT.

 

[RNWRKNP]

I’m not familiar with the actual tech but I can understand it. The one thing most allopaths are going to ignore is posture. They are more about treating symptoms and not the foundation.

I was thinking the ARP Wave might help you with your pec and bicep?

 

[Maxduty]

2-3 is shot,3-4 is less detrimental. 4-5 looks collapsed, but that is where the fusion is. Keep in mind that your first back surgery is your first back surgery. L5-S1 is probably next, but don't be surprised if more is suggested.

 

[amcardon]

Damn man, I'm far more concerned with L5/S1 than anything else. I don't know why injections were even recommended. I've heard of the wave therapy but haven't seen it first hand. I've got a patient flying overseas for an M6 replacement surgery next month after failing everything recommended here, but I know he never did wave therapy (was told he was too old). Good luck man, hopefully you get some answers!

 

[RNWRKNP]

Damn man, I'm far more concerned with L5/S1 than anything else. I don't know why injections were even recommended. I've heard of the wave therapy but haven't seen it first hand. I've got a patient flying overseas for an M6 replacement surgery next month after failing everything recommended here, but I know he never did wave therapy (was told he was too old). Good luck man, hopefully you get some answers!

Really appreciate the input. Last round of injections put me in the emergency room so I think I’m done with injections? Funny but not at the time. Waiting for everything to calm back down before I do whatever comes next. MRI on Thursday and circling back around to my Neuro to hopefully shed some light on what’s going on. Symptoms suggest your right at L5/S1 with ice pick and fire just below the belt line and down the left that stops at the knee. How old was the gentleman that didn’t qualify for wave therapy if it’s ok to ask? I’m 51.

 

[amcardon]

He is in his late 70s.

When was the last MRI?

 

[RNWRKNP]

He is in his late 70s.

When was the last MRI?

A month ago. Doc ordered another due to the accute pain reaction to the last set of injections.

 

[flyer]

I know a guy who had an electronic stimulation thing. It helped him get off methodone but that was years ago, I'm not sure how he is doing now. I'm sure his damaged nerve is still damaged so it's a bandaid.

There is a stem cell clinic in Panama that fixed Joe Rogan's shoulder and some problem Mel Gibson had. Rogan has done a few podcasts about it. That seems to be the future of medicine and makes surgery look barbaric. If you've got the money and your back isn't too far gone, it might be a good option.

For another option, try some Yoga. Don't go hard but it will increase blood flow and help your body heal.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Exploring PT modalities was where I’m thinking. Started with a tension band to isolate the calf and yoga is not a stretch as the wife is into it. Staying mobile and pushing where I can as I don’t sit well pun intended? I’ll absolutely check out the podcast on stem cell. Elevated my reloading station with more of a captains chair to avoid the standard sitting position and that helped big time. See if the boss will agree to the same thing at work. Still shooting and hunting, just have to modify.

I really appreciate you taking a moment to share your feedback.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

My sympathies. I've got an L4/L5 to S1 problem myself. My doc recommended books by Robin McKenzie and physical therapy. Just on a whim and a recommendation I had a top neurosurgeon give me a 2nd opinion on my MRI. He concurred, so I'm back to following the exercises in the Back Pain Book. I haven't been very diligent in the past, so I guess it's self-discipline time. Good luck guys.

 

[RNWRKNP]

My sympathies. I've got an L4/L5 to S1 problem myself. My doc recommended books by Robin McKenzie and physical therapy. Just on a whim and a recommendation I had a top neurosurgeon give me a 2nd opinion on my MRI. He concurred, so I'm back to following the exercises in the Back Pain Book. I haven't been very diligent in the past, so I guess it's self-discipline time. Good luck guys.

Thanks for the book reference dude, I’ll check it out?

 

[Sieg]

I injured L3-4 working at 16 years old 44 years ago. Years of miss-diagnosis always described as lower back muscle strain and given anti-inflammatory meds. Over the years there were multiple times I would impinge the never and be down for the count for 2 or 3 days and I have a relatively high tolerance to pain. In December of 2001 I was moving a small light weight bookcase 9 days after a vasectomy so I was being very cautious and boom, double rupture of L3-4, Surgery on Jan 8, 2002.

I learned about the McKenzie principle flexation exercises when researching options days after the rupture. They have been one of the best means of pain relief I've had since then. www.spine-health.com is the site I've learned the most from. Ice has always been my trusted go to for pain relief. I also have a back-swing/inversion table that greatly helps at times.

I manage to get back to playing golf and riding off-road motorcycles at a reasonably competitive level within a year of the surgery. Gave those up about 6 years ago and now walk an average of 7 miles a day rain or shine at least 355 days a year.

The last 5 years daily sciatic pain issues have been increasing. The last few months has been down right uncomfortable, pain down into the front of the left or right shin at times and typically walking with a noticeable limp which creates other issues..... like tight hamstrings that induce sciatica and serious sleep depriving cramping of the lower left buttock region. I've been stretching my hamstrings frequently and that has made a huge difference. Finally getting some sleep!

Between the McKenzie principle flexes and a good stretching routine I manage to minimize the pain and can actually stand with proper posture again.

Serious back pain is a daily challenge for many and requires a lot of caution, experimentation, and dedication to minimize and control. I feel your pain brother.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

I've got an inversion table too. What is your regimen? I've been getting mixed results. Sometimes when I get off, I feel great. Sometimes, I feel worse.

 

[Sieg]

I have an early Teeters HangUp with the fabric back rest. Not the best compared to the new contoured plastic units. The new ones put your spine at a better angle.

I've found that just like the chiropractor, you cannot have excessive inflammation or spasms and expect positive results. I'll ice, relax, do some McKenzie flexation exercises which involve focus breathing and relaxation techniques before I invert. First thing in the morning is a good time or after physical activity when you're loosened up is a good time for me.

I've also found with my unit I have better results going 25-35 degrees less than fully inverted. My spine seems to be more relaxed and I get a better stretch.

I'll go fully inverted and do ab crunches and rotational flexation by grabbing a support leg and gently apply rotational torque to the spine.

I can't emphasize enough the importance of good breathing and mental relaxation techniques focused on the pelvic region when using the table or doing McKenzie exercises.

My old unit has a foot bar release pin down between your ankles which I found could ruin everything I accomplished just getting out of the darn thing. I rigged a nylon rope release that doesn't require me to bend over and that's helped substantially.

As far as how often I let pain and discomfort be my indicator. Some days I've done 4 sessions, some weeks none. I should be doing ab crunches at least 3 times a week as that forces me to invert regularly and keeps the abs strong which is critical..... don't always get 3 sessions in, it really depends on the type of physical work I've done during the week.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Thanks for the advice. +1 on the pull rope for the release pin. I've been meaning to do that.

BTW, doing extreme crunches on an AbLounge is what finally whacked out my vertebrae and sciatic nerve. Suddenly, one Monday afternoon I couldn't do 5 minutes on the treadmill at 2.6 MPH without intense right calve cramps.

 

[Sieg]

I don't do extreme crunches, just 20-30 degrees slow up and down, 30-40 reps. Just enough that I can feel it the next day.

 

[TXSGFmrCWO3]

Sadly, I know that now. Who woulda thought old farts can't do young guy stuff without breaking. On the bright side, I feel that once I see some long time repair I can start doing some crunches on the inversion table. Thanks.

 

[Sieg]

Keep moving! I walk 5 miles off road with the dogs and usually average 7-8 miles total a day.

My backyard is a Doggyland of sorts.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Keep moving! I walk 5 miles off road with the dogs and usually average 7-8 miles total a day.

My backyard is a Doggyland of sorts.

Nice AO and good looking dogs amigo?

Just now getting to the point that not everything I do starts a bbq on the left side. Start PT this week and seriously going to look into the book that you guys mentioned. The other thing I’m doing is working through techniques and kata geared way down without impact. Same thing w/ carbine and side arm drills and it seems to be helping with range of motion without the bbq. Biggest problem for me is sitting for extended periods of time. Probably drives the boss crazy as I’m constantly moving in the office to rub some dirt on it?

 

[Sieg]

Thank you, with the current state of civilization Dogs are my company of choice.

Pay very close attention to what the PT person does and uses, note it down while its still fresh in your mind, you may be able to implement many of the tricks yourself in the future.

Sitting is the worst thing you can do to your spines discs, especially after physical activity! I stand a lot and people are always offering me a chair or asking why I don't want to sit.

My wife works for a regional Credit Union and they have numerous employees in multiple branches that use desks that elevate to standing work stations.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Thank you, with the current state of civilization Dogs are my company of choice.

Pay very close attention to what the PT person does and uses, note it down while its still fresh in your mind, you may be able to implement many of the tricks yourself in the future.

Sitting is the worst thing you can do to your spines discs, especially after physical activity! I stand a lot and people are always offering me a chair or asking why I don't want to sit.

My wife works for a regional Credit Union and they have numerous employees in multiple branches that use desks that elevate to standing work stations.

I hear ya?

 

[Sieg]

What ever it takes to minimize the pain!

What are you cooking up in that kitchen?

 

[RNWRKNP]

What ever it takes to minimize the pain!

What are you cooking up in that kitchen?

Finally starting to catch up on 556. Only about 500 more beyond what you see there to go? 25.3g Varget, 69g Sierra match king, Lake City brass with a Fed match primer.?