Rifle Scopes splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

[komifornian]

I'm new to this site/forum but not new to precision rifle shooting. I've been reading many of the posts here and have found a lot of them, quite frankly, funny.

Seriously, the difference in quality and "glass" clarity between S&B and USO is not noticeable to the human eye.

You can argue that one or the other is better when comes to features but that's about it.

If you disagree please chime in, I'd love to hear it.

 

[bward]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Seriously, the difference in quality and "glass" clarity between S&B and USO is not noticeable to the human eye.

</div></div>

Strongly disagree. I have owned and used both, and the USO's were definitely not as nice in terms of glass quality.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Hmmm -

I've used both as well and can't see any difference.

But if you can, fantastic!

There was anther post that talked about actual clarity/quality in real numbers. I think it was on a scale of 1-5. Does anyone know how USO or S&B measure?

 

[bward]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Glass quality is very subjective, and opinions of the same scope will vary from person to person. Both USO's I used left me thinking the glass was not on par with the likes or S&B, Hensoldt, and Premier. However, this was only what my eyes perceived.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Both are fantastic; don't get me wrong - I use both...

However, I wanted to start this dialog because there are folks here that claim one is "substantially" better and I simply disagree. If you're going to make this claim I'd like hard evidence that substantiates your claim.

I appreciate your input; it's obvious you know what you're talking about.

 

[SScott]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Really,,,, you are gonna argue your way to 100 posts, can't wait to see what you are selling. If it is not just for an argument, lets see your hard data on this subject.
SScott

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Not trying to start an argument nor am I selling anything. To reiterate, I use both products and can't see any difference from a clarity standpoint.
I just want to know which scope has better glass and I want the answer backed up with scientific data. That’s it....
If you feel I'm biased in any way please don't comment.

 

[merlinnnn]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

My 2 cents... I have 2 USO 1.8-10x37, MST 100 and 2 S&B M8541 and shortdot. As much as I would like to say they are the same they are not.... Very close but not. The S&B is just that hair crisper, the M8541 is the best Scope I personally have seen. I really like the USOs and would buy them again. Let be real there is a big difference in cost. Is the price difference worth it... That is your choice, value, custom build, durability and customer service USO, crystal clear and also built like a tank S&B

Merlinn

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Since you have both brands I can respect your opinion. I just can't see the difference so I wanted science to prove that S&B glass is better than USO glass. Again I use both and think both are fantastic.

 

[71firebird400]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

n/m

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

We had a chance to do a side by side comparison of a USO, S&B, Premier Heritage, MK 4, and NF. We set them all to the same power. At 900yds we had some clay pigeons set up. The S&B and Heritage were head and shoulders above the rest, razor sharp image all the way to the edge of the glass. The others would get a ghosting or doubling effect of the pigeon as you moved closer to the edge of the glass. Mine was the USO. I own two of them still today but i have to honestly say as far as edge to edge clarity it was last out of that list. I chose the USO because i view scopes as a tool. I want specific things on specific rifles. To me this argument is like saying 'who makes a better hammer?' For me the USO had the features i wanted...to be able to customize it. The MK 4, NF, and S&B did not offer the customization i was after for my tools.

To sum up, if you are talking <span style="text-decoration: underline">pure glass quality alone </span>then i would say from my experience, and the 4 others with me that came to the same conclusion, the S&B wins.

That being said i would not use a framing hammer as a gunsmithing hammer and vise versa, right tool for the right job.

If you prefer MOA go USO. If you prefer MIL and want great glass buy a S&B. Niether of these scopes is going to make you a better shooter, get out and shoot!

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

great post - thanks Jesse.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

komifornian, do you own either of these scopes. You stated that you've used them, but have you had the opportunity to do a side by side comparison?

Personally, I don't think that the USO scopes are anything special in terms of optical quality and feel that the Nightforce line is a better deal in terms of bang for the buck. In side by side comparisons, I found that USO is good, but the S&B is noticeably better.

As has been mentioned though, perceived optical quality is pretty subjective, so whatever floats your boat.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">komifornian, do you own either of these scopes. You stated that you've used them, but have you had the opportunity to do a side by side comparison?

Personally, I don't think that the USO scopes are anything special in terms of optical quality and feel that the Nightforce line is a better deal in terms of bang for the buck. In side by side comparisons, I found that USO is good, but the S&B is noticeably better.

As has been mentioned though, perceived optical quality is pretty subjective, so whatever floats your boat. </div></div>

+1. But I put overall quality and durability over glass quality, and I've only had one USO that didn't have to go back and that was my MST-100. From my findings aswell as mony other's the S&B is a higher quality scope all around.

I do see a lot of people saying "well the USO has custom features". The S&B is mil/mil, FFP, illuminated, zero stop, thatwindage knob is labeled in each direction with a stop, has the best turrets you will find, and very good reticle choices. What more do you want?

 

[Mustafa]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What more do you want?</div></div>

MOA...

^_^

 

[alray]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

I recently picked up an S&B 5-25x56 after years of using a USO SN3. To me the difference in glass quality in terms of brightness and clarity is significant. The S&B is superior.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

I have all USO's on my go to rifles. 3 SN-3's, 1 ST10 and a USO field spoter. They do not have the best glass of the upper level scopes. It is very serviceable and very good but it is not S&B let alone Hensoldt. I also have an IOR that has better glass than my USO's. Glass however is but a small part of the picture and the last thing I consider my scopes. All of the upper tier scopes are going to be well above average on all accounts and each is going to be better at one or more features than the rest. The decision is what fits you. Durability, FFP, Made in USA, features I want and sombody on the other end of the line that I know their name if I have any issues.....that is what is important to me. Everybody has different needs. Pick any one of USO, S&B or Nightforce and you will have a scope that will take abuse and serve you well...the decision is yours but dont get enamored with any one thing and choose on your needs not internet BS arguments.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WuLitian</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What more do you want?</div></div>

MOA...

^_^ </div></div>

Why? So when your at the range and somebody is spotting for you with a mil reticle you can play a guessing game? The mil system is better than MOA, and most have standardized on it. I used to use MOA/MOA NF's made the switch to mil/mil and you couldn't pay me to go back.

 

[CST]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

unless your blind...there is no "splitting hairs" about it.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

If you say so it must be true. Thanks for your insightful comment.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

What I've heard from people whose careers are centred around optics is that USO is not consistent. Some are stellar, some are not. I had a chance to compare, extensively, a USO with my own Hensoldt, a S&B and a Premier. On that day, with those scopes, during daylight the USO had great FOV, depth of field and clarity. I felt that glass lacked nothing and I went in there thinking it would be a poor cousin for sure.

However, when that scope was compared in lowlight conditions, the short comings of the glass against the $3k+ scopes became apparent (I didn't do this testing, Ilya did, see his thread High End Tactical Part 2).

So what gives?

To say in a blanket statement the human eye can't see a difference is dumb. Have you looked through those scopes with every human's eye? No, of course not, and it's a silly question. So is the statement it's questioning.

If you're not shooting in lowlight, if you think you'll be knocking your scope around and you have a need to have the features tailored to your needs over out of the box then USO is an equitable option compared to S&B, Hensoldt etc.

It's what's important to you that counts.

 

[brand692]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

I can tell you I've done side by sides of the TPAL and ERGO. ERGO wins hands down. Both scopes were mine and fresh out of the box.

Later I did a side by side of a TPAL and a Premier. Again, both mine, but by this time neither was new. PH was much clearer and less "fish bowly" for lack of better terms. I no longer owned the ERGO at that point.

What I haven't done is a ERGO vs. Premier as I no longer had the ERGO. But I highly suspect the Premier would win.

I know, nowhere have I mentioned S&B. The S&B and Premier glass is supposedly comparable, so I would put S&B in the winners circle.

Now, I own my first Hensoldt. It is just plain amazing. I literally cannot find a situation, other than total darkness, in which any other scope would out perform it.

Komi, I think you said you are in Marin. If you ever make it down here to the central coast, you are more than welcome to compare your USO's and S&B's with the Hensoldt. LMK.

 

[buckey]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

S&B by far - I wasn't impressed with the USO scope I bought (then quickly sold)!!

 

[5RWill]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Optics wise my USO is fine. Clarity is more than enough for it's purpose. A scope doesn't really need the best "glass" in the world to be good. It's a plus but it's not all the scope is about. I got my USO having read some reviews about the clarity not being there. Just doesn't bother me i guess. It's still the clearest scope in the gun cabinet. Function is key though and it's built rock solid and it's the exact build i wanted which also factors in. Don't get me wrong if i had the money i would've went for S&B. But i have nothing bad to say about my USO. It does everything it's supposed to.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

I guess the million dollar question is is:

If USO does everything you need it to do why would you spend the extra $$ for a S&B

 

[71firebird400]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the million dollar question is is:

If USO does everything you need it to do why would you spend the extra $$ for a S&B </div></div>

Because it's clearer, more reliable, and cooler. Duh.

 

[5RWill]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

To try it out, it's as simple as that. S&B is known as the standard of the industry. If i had the money to blow i would've bought one. Not because i necessarily favor one over the other. Just to try one and see what i like. It's all about choices. I would love the chance to own a PH, S&B, Hendsolt, Razor, and NF. But at the time i had the money for a USO, liked what i saw, and adore the Erek knob and durability.

Like most say when you get to this point in price and quality built scopes it will come down to preference. But to have preference you would need to try a good bit of them IMO.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Blackops -

Love the honesty!

After all of this banter I'm frustrated!

I bought a USO scope and love it but according to this string I'm done. Per my wife I could have spent up to $3,400 but went with USO because I was told it was the best bang for the buck. Crap! Oh well, it's not like I ended up with a dog. Fortuity I have a high class problem and don't live in Egypt

I still shoot 1/4 MOA at 200 meters.

I'm done with this thread, I have all the info and input I need -thanks everyone! Shoot often and have fun....

 

[Graham]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm done with this thread, I have all the info and input I need...</div></div>Except that from reading your responses I would say you need to have a look through a bunch of SBs and a bunch of USOs. You don't account for the fact that individual scopes vary.

 

[komifornian]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

You're right I just don't know many people that have "high end" optics. Burris, Leopold, and Redfield are the norm where I shoot.
I'm confident I made the right choice for what I'm going to use this scope for; quite frankly, I will look like a glass snob as it is.

Thanks everyone!

 

[flyboy]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

I will say having used and looked through all of the above mentioned, I can say that when it comes to down right quality and clarity the S&B and PH are at the top, especially in low light and night (moon light) conditions.

The Zeiss Hensoldt, I think is clearer and better glass period but I've yet to look through it on a rifle or check it for anything other than glass. I'm sure its top notch also.

The USO's that I've messed with just didn't justify the cost and frankly left me wanting more. I feel that Nightforce is a better (money wise) scope in that range of capabilities. I will admit that the one thing USO has cornered the market on is its ability to have it your way, and for that I give them credit.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are fantastic; don't get me wrong - I use both...
<span style="color: red"> you use both? but start another thread about the walmart lady trying to sell you a Tasco? and your not sure if you you should go with her expert opinion or the Barska? </span>

However, I wanted to start this dialog because <span style="color: red"> because. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . .. . .. . post padding maybe? </span>

I appreciate your input; it's obvious you know what you're talking about. <span style="color: red"> as obviously you do too </span>
</div></div>

 

[TwoGun]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: komifornian</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I still shoot 1/4 MOA at 200 meters.

</div></div>

Yeah but anyone can do that with an Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

You know that's cheating, Marvin.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

If you have what you wanted, why are you second guessing yourself now? No matter what you get, there's always going to be something better.

I run Nightforce scopes and I'm perfectly happy, even though I know there is better. I haven't run into a situation wherein I couldn't make the shot due to my equipment not being good enough.

My ultimate goal is to have a S&B someday, but I have too many irons on the fire to dump that much money into one optic.

Hey, if it makes you feel better, I know quite a few guys that swear by their USO scopes and consider my Nightforce scopes to be just on the better side of garbage.

 

[5RWill]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have what you wanted, why are you second guessing yourself now? No matter what you get, there's always going to be something better.

I run Nightforce scopes and I'm perfectly happy, even though I know there is better. I haven't run into a situation wherein I couldn't make the shot due to my equipment not being good enough.

My ultimate goal is to have a S&B someday, but I have too many irons on the fire to dump that much money into one optic.

Hey, if it makes you feel better, I know quite a few guys that swear by their USO scopes and consider my Nightforce scopes to be just on the better side of garbage.</div></div>

Yeah they're all good scopes everyone has a favorite over the other. You can't really go wrong with any of them. They all get the job done.

 

[Iggy]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

To me it's funny that you laugh at other posts. You then post a statement that you want members to disprove with "scientific data", whatever that means, without providing any of your own.

So let's look at this:

"Seriously, the difference in quality and "glass" clarity between S&B and USO is not noticeable to the human eye."

What quality are we talking about? Clarity? Light transmission? Quality in construction and/or assembly? Type of glass and coating?

You provide no info of your own to substantiate such a blanket claim.

"You can argue that one or the other is better when comes to features but that's about it."

So we are splitting hairs about features? If so, then are talking about whether the abundance or lack of features of a S&B are worth the extra cost? That seems like a question of preference and asking that is going to get you a variety of answers.

To me it sounds like you need justification for your purchase. You could have bought a S&B but got a USO instead and maybe regret it? I don't know.

"I bought a USO scope and love it but according to this string I'm done. Per my wife I could have spent up to $3,400 but went with USO because I was told it was the best bang for the buck."

 

[RagnarAW50]

Re: splitting hairs - S&B vs USO

Glass quality seems subjective…one variable is resolution…the USAF has a chart based on MIL-STD-150A (I suspect this was developed in the early days of reconnaissance).

I would be nice to see a comparison of the various riflescopes measured against some sort of defined metric like this. The test would have to be done using a standard like MIL-STD-150A and complying with the test practices associated with that standard.

That might answer some of the questions about how glass looks vs how well it resolves, likely the same but there may be some surprises.

Does anyone know of any tests done like this? If so where are the results…my google-foo has not helped me so far…