Square vs Circle steel gongs

[pitdog85]

So I was just about to order a 18inch circle gong and it just occurred to me that a circle gong is going to be a lot harder to hit at range than a square gong. Unless your vertical is dead set spot on your are not going to get the full width of your gong to use. Windage is going to be a lot harder if for example you hit in the top 1/3 of the gong on a circle you are going to have very little "meat" on the left and right to hit compared to a square gong.

I know F class they are shooting at a circle target, what shape gongs are yall using for the elr stuff as when someone says they are shooting a 24inch gong its really not a fair comparison if someone is shooting a 24inch square vs old mate shooting a 24 inch circle?

thoughts

 

[torrentuser]

ELR stuff is square... Though there is a NorCal Unlimited Distance group that shoots a circle because you need to be aiming for center and hitting an edge increases the MOA of the diameter of the circle. Hitting corners to them is missing. Basically, it is up to you really. If you are just shooting personally or with friends and not planning on doing something official, it shouldn't matter what you shoot at. BTW, Shootingtargets7 is having a killer Memorial Day sale. I'm not affiliated with them but I've bought a lot from them. Check them out before you order.

 

[pitdog85]

hey thanks man I'm in Australia we have very limited range of companies making targets compared to the US.

Yeah I will only be shooting for personal use however was interested kinda in the "ethics" of it like you say with the norcal shooters who claim that hitting the corners is a miss just wanted to get a feel for what others thought on this type of thing. It actually made me realise how fricken accurate those F class shooters are who are aiming for a 5 inch circle at 1000!!!!!

Even though I'm only doing my own thing I don't want to cheat myself when comparing to what others are doing kinda thing.

 

[gingerking5566]

I can't see any disadvantages to it, but the square topped targets will be stronger/more durable because of having more material, but the eared targets are not exactly weak to start with. I would think that because the squared gong has more surface area that is will ring or resonate a bit louder. Either one should serve you well for a very long time as long as you don't shoot AP rounds at them or blast them with a cannon.

 

[Washapi]

I have a mix of squares, circles, and diamonds. I use the diamonds to really fine tune my DOPE. Corners are missing and elevation and wind has to be spot on for impacts.

 

[Mooncake]

Corners are missing...please. Then hitting the edge of a circle or the point of the diamond is missing, too. What it boils down to is surface area. LxW vs (pi)( r squared.) Area of 24" square is 576" vs area of 24" diameter circle is 452".

Whatever you're shooting at you'll want to improve your group sizes and keep them small. If your target is small enough the shape doesn't matter -- a hit is a hit. If your target is giant then the opposite. Personally I like the tone of ringing a circle better than a square but that's subjective and who cares what everyone else is doing.

But good on ya for still shooting down unda. I thought that was illegal a long time ago.

 

[Lynn Jr]

I run the NorCal matches and the gongs are 3/8 inch AR500 and have thousands of hits on them. Plenty of hits with 50 BMG 510DTC 416 Barrett and all the other heavy hitters.
So far we don't even have a dent or crater.
As to the corners missing we lose alot of shots right around the edges but after holding matches for 3 years now very few are won at our starting distance which is 2054 yards.
It generally takes 2586 yards to get a winner anymore.

 

[pitdog85]

But good on ya for still shooting down unda. I thought that was illegal a long time ago.

I tell ya what they make it that hard to shoot here I consider selling it all regularly. Its not easy to do anything gun related in such an anti gun country.....

 

[ELR researcher]

Lynn is the Match Director for URSA NorCal and the Regional Director for the CA/NV region of URSA. [URSA is the Unlimited Range Shooters Association - just so you understand where you want to look for info if you were interested in shooting such events. Web link in my signature block.]

URSA steel is 37" round to match the outer ring of IBS and NBRSA official 1000 yard (benchrest) paper targets. Why? So URSA events can be run using steel targets or standardized paper targets, paper targets available from multiple sources at fairly low cost.

Bryan Litz and others have advocated measuring a target's level of difficulty in MOA - the surface area available for a hit. MOA (minute of angle) is a "circular" measurement. I know of NO way to measure the MOA of a non-circular target. [BUT, for expediency sake, the new (tactical) ELR world has decided to default to using non-circular targets.]

Personally, I find no good use for a non-circular target (target pattern) unless you are attempting to mimic the shape of a specific object - person, squirrel, deer, etc.

So, OP, if I were you, I'd make my decision (round or not-round) based on answering this question, "How can I best improve my shooting skill, shooting a "large" target or a "small" target?" You know which is which, so...

 

[Sniperwannabee]

I run the NorCal matches and the gongs are 3/8 inch AR500 and have thousands of hits on them. Plenty of hits with 50 BMG 510DTC 416 Barrett and all the other heavy hitters.
So far we don't even have a dent or crater.
As to the corners missing we lose alot of shots right around the edges but after holding matches for 3 years now very few are won at our starting distance which is 2054 yards.
It generally takes 2586 yards to get a winner anymore.
View attachment 6920098

wow how big r those?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Inside the square is the circle that matters. That just blows my mind like I need a spinal tap to wrap my head around that one.

 

[flyer]

I can't see any disadvantages to it, but the square topped targets will be stronger/more durable because of having more material, but the eared targets are not exactly weak to start with. I would think that because the squared gong has more surface area that is will ring or resonate a bit louder. Either one should serve you well for a very long time as long as you don't shoot AP rounds at them or blast them with a cannon.

It's an interesting question to think about which will ring louder.

A circle will have standing waves of pretty much equal frequency for all 360° of it's perimeter.

A square will have different frequencies side to side vs corner to corner and a gradient of frequencies on the angles in between. That might cause some destructive interference and damp the ringing.

Musical gongs are most commonly round, there is probably a reason for that.

 

[Lynn Jr]

wow how big r those?

The gongs in the photo are 37 inches across. We use the same gongs at 2000 as 2500 as 3000 yards.
After 3 years of shooting them most of our matches get settled at 2500+ yards.

 

[Milo 2.5]

So I was just about to order a 18inch circle gong and it just occurred to me that a circle gong is going to be a lot harder to hit at range than a square gong. Unless your vertical is dead set spot on your are not going to get the full width of your gong to use. Windage is going to be a lot harder if for example you hit in the top 1/3 of the gong on a circle you are going to have very little "meat" on the left and right to hit compared to a square gong.

I know F class they are shooting at a circle target, what shape gongs are yall using for the elr stuff as when someone says they are shooting a 24inch gong its really not a fair comparison if someone is shooting a 24inch square vs old mate shooting a 24 inch circle?

thoughts

Knowing or having a good idea where your bullet is landing to me is more important than the shape of your gong. Target placement is going to play hard here too. Just say your shooting area is flat, and you buy a round and square the same size(18"), and you have to set both of these on the same slight rise to be able to see them. Now, being it will be damn hard to spot a miss, a hit in the upper right or lower left corner of the square may save the day. Throwing lead is just that.
Vegetation swallows bullets, and from what I've seen these ELR comps have targets set in areas where picking up a miss is doable.
I'm not telling you to buy square over round, and will say consistently hitting smaller plate over big confirms you're more adept at what you're trying to accomplish. But I do know, having a large plate close to that smaller plate will make you better on certain days. I don't give 2 shits who you are, there are days when you fire a couple rds and say WTF, it may be wind, moisture content in the ground, your rifle, load etc..., you end up scratching your head. Under certain light conditions<time of day, wind pattern, or mirage, a berm 4 ft behind a plate can be the most deceiving thing in shooting distance.

 

[pitdog85]

thanks guys I ended up with an 18inchx18inch square 10mm ar 500

 

[sinister]

This one's pretty big...