Staball Match range report (308)

[Pickle Rick]

Tested Staball match in 308 with 178 ELD-M. Tested 44.2 up to Hodgdon max 46gr. After 44.2gr it really tightened up. Very happy with the accuracy. First ever test with this powder so only did 4-shot groups. Next time I will bring the chrono and verify 46.0 range and report back with velocities.

 

[avidflyer]

44.8 looks good easy on brass and summer temps shouldnt be a killer...great start

 

[Pickle Rick]

Thanks. Should have mentioned no pressure signs at all. I am running a OAL of 2.863 and a 20” barrel so trying to squeeze some velocity out.

 

[918v]

What brass did you use?

 

[Pickle Rick]

Lapua

 

[918v]

Lapua

What brass did your load data use?

 

[Pickle Rick]

Winchester I think

 

[918v]

Winchester I think

Do Winchester and Lapua cases have the same capacity?

 

[Pickle Rick]

Win I think has more. I shoot a long COAL tho and still 50thou off lands.

 

[918v]

Win has way more. You should stay at or below 44.8grs in the Lapua case or it won’t last very long.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Win has way more. You should stay at or below 44.8grs in the Lapua case or it won’t last very long.

How much experience do you have with this powder?

 

[918v]

Zero.

 

[jolofree]

I would approach 46grs carefully in Lapua cases. I think that's approaching/exceeding a max load w/ 178gr projectiles, obvious pressure signs or not

 

[huntnh]

I’ll be curious to see what speeds your getting

 

[Pickle Rick]

I’ll be curious to see what speeds your getting

Yep next time out I’m bringing the chrono. Will update when that happens.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I would approach 46grs carefully in Lapua cases. I think that's approaching/exceeding a max load w/ 178gr projectiles, obvious pressure signs or not

My gun has an obnoxious free-bore. The 178’s don’t touch lands till 2.913”. With mag I usually shoot at 2.880. This adds a lot of volume to the case but yes, good advice. I checked cases after each firing for pressure. If I exceed 2600 fps I’ll back it off.

 

[acronut]

Tested Staball match in 308 with 178 ELD-M. Tested 44.2 up to Hodgdon max 46gr. After 44.2gr it really tightened up. Very happy with the accuracy. First ever test with this powder so only did 4-shot groups. Next time I will bring the chrono and verify 46.0 range and report back with velocities.

Any update on velocities and SDs?

 

[7.62willdo]

Wondering about this as well, also wondering if you tried LR Mag primers as 45 grains is a lot of ball powder…..

 

[Yondering]

My gun has an obnoxious free-bore. The 178’s don’t touch lands till 2.913”. With mag I usually shoot at 2.880. This adds a lot of volume to the case but yes, good advice. I checked cases after each firing for pressure. If I exceed 2600 fps I’ll back it off.

Seems like the other people giving advice about loads here (without ever using the powder, no less) are only looking at one variable - case capacity - and assuming all else is equal. But we can guess pretty accurately that the pressure barrel probably didn't have a really long free bore like some factory barrels, and that makes a huge difference in load data and velocity potential. I mean, just look at the difference between 223 and 5.56 chambers for an example of that.

Personally, I'd do my diligence to have load practices squared away, especially shoulder bump, as well as gas adjustment if this was an AR, and then let the rifle tell me what max is. I wouldn't necessarily assume 2,600 fps is max or even hot if you haven't used this powder before; maybe it's capable of higher velocity than others you've used. Or maybe 2,500 with this powder is too hot in your rifle. Just assuming a particular velocity number is kind of dangerous until you have more background to work with. If Hodgdon's data indicates 2,600 fps is max for your barrel length, that's a start, but there's still that long freebore and likely other differences that can affect max.

Thanks for sharing your range report, and I'll be interested to see what velocities you are able to get.

 

[acronut]

Ok tried a workup with 168 ELDs Gotta say it's about the worse bullet I've ever tried to load for in any caliber. This barrel hammers one hole groups with 175 SMKs and 178 Hornady HPBT but with the 168 ELDs with both varget and staball match its a .8 MOA best group and goes out to 4 MOA. Didn't even keep the target but maybe the velocities etc will help someone else. Next week I'm going to do similar with the 178 Hornady HPBT

Specs: 1-10 twist 26" proof prefit on a Big Horn TL3.
Lapua 2nd fire large primer brass with Federal 210M all 5 shot groups with a Lab Radar

Charge velocity ES/SD
44.6 2757 17/6.2
44.8 2773 12/6.2
45.0 2790 10/4.2
45.2 2805 7/2.8
45.4 2817 24/8.7
45.6 2825 21/9.5
45.8 2838 17/6.7
46.0 2860 20/7.7
46.2 2856 16/6.3 No signs of pressure

For comparison same 168 ELDs but with virgin brass and Varget
44.6 2769 22/10.5
44.8 2775 18.7.2
45.0 2799 20/8.1
45.2 2794 13/9.4 (only two shots recorded)

 

[acronut]

Staball Match with Hornady 178 HPBT provided much better results.

Same Specs: 1-10 twist 26" proof prefit on a Big Horn TL3.
Lapua 2nd fire large primer brass with Federal 210M all 5 shot groups with a Lab Radar

Charge velocity ES/SD
43.6 2667 16/6.8
43.8 2681 9/4
44.0 2702 33/13.5
44.2 2709 24/9.5 I definitely pulled the third shot high left
44.4 2721 20/8.8
44.6 2732 23/8.7
44.8 2744 13/5.1
45.0 2750 21/9.2
45.2 2772 17 8.7
45.4 2773 47/20.5

I loaded up a bunch more of the 44.4 and shot impressive small groups out to 750 yards. At 886 they were vertically stringing probably 10” which surprised me.

I also powder dropped a bunch loading on my Dillon 750XL and was quite happy. The first 5 over the Lab Radar
2716 9/3.1

34 shots across the lab radar wasn’t quite as good with
2720 57/13.5

For the price of this bullet and being able to powder drop I’m quite happy and I’ll be using a bunch for practice.

 

[Stephen Chandler]

I've been using this powder in my howa 1500 and have been fairly successful with 175smk

The only problem I had with the smk's was I was not fast enough at the target for my clubs shot marker targets to pick it up (1000 yards)

I bought some 168 Eld-match and started doing load workup. As I've ran the 168 hpbt Hornady projectiles with blc-2 and had no velocity issues at the target.

I am running into all kinds of issues with the ELD-M's and the staball Match powder.

No pressure signs showing up then all of a sudden blowing primers out and ejector swipes (in the blown brass)

Ran a ladder from hodgdons book Max down by .2 and ran into issues at 44.2gn

Tried again Friday instead running the ladder from low up. And same thing. Ran into issues at 44-44.2 gn. Blew primers out

43.8 was safe and middle of a node. But only about 2550 fps.

Today I loaded up 35 rounds at 43.8 to do a seating depth test and popped a few primers out. (I loaded 3 batches of 35 at varrying seating depth starting at 40 from the lands down to 10) I loaded 3 batches to test the powder with the different primers I had (CCI, win, federal)

Gun was scrubbed and borescoped before heading out. No carbon ring.

I'm using Lapua brass that's all full length sized and shoulders bumped .002. neck tension is also .002

I'm starting to think there's something funky with the lot of powder I got. I had good luck with the 175's and staball Match, but used up the two pounds I initially purchased and I bought an 8lb keg and these are the first loads with it.

I plan on calling hodgdon tomorrow. Fwiw I had some of my 175's still loaded and they shot great, around 2500fps and grouped like they always do.

But I'm frustrated and confused at this point. Going to load up some of the ELD-M's with some blc-2 and see how they do

 

[CK1.0]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but if 44-44.2gn was blowing primers, IDK why you'd consider 43.8gn "safe"..?

 

[supercorndogs]

Thats pretty weird. It probably deserves its own thread. Also Hodgdon does not have data for the 168ELDM. Their data is from Winchester brass with the 168 Seirra and 168 Barnes TTSX. I would expect the 168ELM to have a significantly longer bearing surface than those bullets. Just guessing though. I don't have any of the 168ELDM here.

 

[Packjam]

I've been using this powder in my howa 1500 and have been fairly successful with 175smk

The only problem I had with the smk's was I was not fast enough at the target for my clubs shot marker targets to pick it up (1000 yards)

I bought some 168 Eld-match and started doing load workup. As I've ran the 168 hpbt Hornady projectiles with blc-2 and had no velocity issues at the target.

I am running into all kinds of issues with the ELD-M's and the staball Match powder.

No pressure signs showing up then all of a sudden blowing primers out and ejector swipes (in the blown brass)

Ran a ladder from hodgdons book Max down by .2 and ran into issues at 44.2gn

Tried again Friday instead running the ladder from low up. And same thing. Ran into issues at 44-44.2 gn. Blew primers out

43.8 was safe and middle of a node. But only about 2550 fps.

Today I loaded up 35 rounds at 43.8 to do a seating depth test and popped a few primers out. (I loaded 3 batches of 35 at varrying seating depth starting at 40 from the lands down to 10) I loaded 3 batches to test the powder with the different primers I had (CCI, win, federal)

Gun was scrubbed and borescoped before heading out. No carbon ring.

I'm using Lapua brass that's all full length sized and shoulders bumped .002. neck tension is also .002

I'm starting to think there's something funky with the lot of powder I got. I had good luck with the 175's and staball Match, but used up the two pounds I initially purchased and I bought an 8lb keg and these are the first loads with it.

I plan on calling hodgdon tomorrow. Fwiw I had some of my 175's still loaded and they shot great, around 2500fps and grouped like they always do.

But I'm frustrated and confused at this point. Going to load up some of the ELD-M's with some blc-2 and see how they do

This might be your brass. This has happened to me before using brass with loose pockets. I would try some new or different brass.

 

[Packjam]

I've been using this powder in my howa 1500 and have been fairly successful with 175smk

The only problem I had with the smk's was I was not fast enough at the target for my clubs shot marker targets to pick it up (1000 yards)

I bought some 168 Eld-match and started doing load workup. As I've ran the 168 hpbt Hornady projectiles with blc-2 and had no velocity issues at the target.

I am running into all kinds of issues with the ELD-M's and the staball Match powder.

No pressure signs showing up then all of a sudden blowing primers out and ejector swipes (in the blown brass)

Ran a ladder from hodgdons book Max down by .2 and ran into issues at 44.2gn

Tried again Friday instead running the ladder from low up. And same thing. Ran into issues at 44-44.2 gn. Blew primers out

43.8 was safe and middle of a node. But only about 2550 fps.

Today I loaded up 35 rounds at 43.8 to do a seating depth test and popped a few primers out. (I loaded 3 batches of 35 at varrying seating depth starting at 40 from the lands down to 10) I loaded 3 batches to test the powder with the different primers I had (CCI, win, federal)

Gun was scrubbed and borescoped before heading out. No carbon ring.

I'm using Lapua brass that's all full length sized and shoulders bumped .002. neck tension is also .002

I'm starting to think there's something funky with the lot of powder I got. I had good luck with the 175's and staball Match, but used up the two pounds I initially purchased and I bought an 8lb keg and these are the first loads with it.

I plan on calling hodgdon tomorrow. Fwiw I had some of my 175's still loaded and they shot great, around 2500fps and grouped like they always do.

But I'm frustrated and confused at this point. Going to load up some of the ELD-M's with some blc-2 and see how they do

Can you define blowing out primers? Are they falling out? Are they slightly pushed out. Light loads can actually cause primers to push out but not fallout.