Suppressors Starting a Trust

[Prison Mike]

I have been looking and looking, and have found all kinds of info on the whole process of paperwork involved with buying a suppressor. I live in Onlsow Co, Nc and have heard that the local sheriff wont sign off on the Form 4's so Id like to start a trust. How do you start a trust? Do I just go to an attorney and tell them I want to start a trust? Im active duty, so can I simply go to the base legal office and have them start one for me?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I have never bought a suppressor before.
Also, if theres anyone from Onlsow Co (or surrounding counties) here, please chime in if you have bought a suppressor, if it was hard for you or easy, and how you went about doing it (trust or CLEO). Thanks.

 

[Sportin Wood]

Re: Starting a Trust

Tag

 

[Geronimo]

Re: Starting a Trust

Don't know about legal on post, doubt they know what to do, but there are several lawyers online that will draft a trust and have a local attorney verify it's legal for your state, google nfa trusts for your state or area might get lucky. You can set up a trust yourself but with NFA items and depending on your situation it might be better to go with an attorney.

 

[nfoley]

Re: Starting a Trust

Just make sure you set the trust up correctly. I am going with a local shop that knows exactly what BATF requires in the trust, and sets them up all the time for class III stuff. If I didn't have them I would get a trust lawyer.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Starting a Trust

ok i cant be sure on this. i have seen a few generic trusts done with quicken trusts or willmaker, and i had a guy send me his actual trust. i have heard of trusts being denied and requiring corrections to add specific "NFA" language. i have also heard another member voice my toughts on NFA trust lawyers. it seems they just collaborate with the local lawyers and give the lawyers secret handshake and share the verbiage for the NFA requirements and collect a fee. the other member refered to it as a "cottage industry" designed to line their pockets. my exwife and a guy i used to party with are both lawyers and they have never heard of the NFA trust or its specific requirements.

from what i can tell by looking at a few trusts, there is a specific paragraph that states that "this trust is not designed for allow for the possession or aquisition of any firearms or NFA items that could not be otherwise possessed or aquired by individuals named in the trust" and i paraphrased that. but other than that, the trust you get from quicken or will maker will be the same for the most part. now if you ask some people that have paid $600, lol, for a lawyer to prepare a trust what their trust says, they get really pissy about it. i can see why. but if i had been the one that had paid, i would still show anyone that asked the trust, allow them to copy and modify it even and not get all pissy about the subject. anyway, i have to retype my copy to allow for my name and location and the different trustees and grantors and such, but when i get it typed out, ill share it. use it at your own risk just as i am, but ill share. its a valid trust with very little being specific to any state or particular laws. its very simple stuff from what i can read.

 

[Prison Mike]

Re: Starting a Trust

PM Sent

 

[nfoley]

Re: Starting a Trust

$600 to prepare a trust seems like a lot to me. It was free to have Black Weapons Armory (here in Tucson)to do the paperwork, and since I was buying from them it was a nobrainer.

 

[SeanRT]

Re: Starting a Trust

Your suppressor dealer should know how to do it; mine did. He sent me a pakcage with all the paperwork and he included a set of instructions showing me what to fill out. And the best part? - He didn't charge me any extra to set up the trust.

 

[Prison Mike]

Re: Starting a Trust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your suppressor dealer should know how to do it; mine did. He sent me a pakcage with all the paperwork and he included a set of instructions showing me what to fill out. And the best part? - He didn't charge me any extra to set up the trust. </div></div>

So your dealer set up tge trust for you? You didn't have an attorney do it for you? That would be awesome. I'm about to try calling up some of the dealers around here and see if they offer that.

 

[Dutch405]

Re: Starting a Trust

My suppressor dealer created my trust as well. He charged me a $15 fee but in the end it was worth the small fee to avoid a big headache.

 

[Prison Mike]

Re: Starting a Trust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch405</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My suppressor dealer created my trust as well. He charged me a $15 fee but in the end it was worth the small fee to avoid a big headache. </div></div>

Thats the way to go! I just hope I can find a dealer around here that will offer that service.

 

[pfcustom]

Re: Starting a Trust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MANIMAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dutch405</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My suppressor dealer created my trust as well. He charged me a $15 fee but in the end it was worth the small fee to avoid a big headache. </div></div>

Thats the way to go! I just hope I can find a dealer around here that will offer that service. </div></div>

Before you head off into the wild blue yonder with all this free internet advise. Please look at the actual NC laws. I am still waiting for someone, especially one of these dealers who also claim to be lawyers, to show me where in NC statues it says a trust to get around the Sheriff's permit or Signature is legal.

I have been a NC NFA dealer and CII manufacture since 1986. That means, I've been to a few rodeos and a couple of goat ropin's. I don't claim to be a subject matter expert. but I am interested in helping NC Citizens get the NFA toys they want. I have not been in this business for 25 years just to make a fast buck.

Now I will agree the BATF, NFA Branch does approve trust in NC at the moment. But the trust route is a VERY gray area. There are dealers here in NC that will tell you different they will sell you a suppressor or machine gun AND a trust at the same time.

I strongly advise you to read NC statues, specifically 14-288.8 & 14-409. That being said, I would RUN from a gun dealer acting and advising you on legal matters. Practicing Law without a license, is the first thought that should come to your mind.

The BEST advice I can give you, or anyone else in NC wanting to get into NFA items. Make an appointment with your Sheriff, take him to lunch etc, but at least talk discretely and honestly with him FIRST. You may be surprised at what you find out and it just may save you a LOT of problems later in life.

I have had people come to me that said they have heard that Sheriff XX won't sign. Even if I know better, then I ask where they got this information, "well I heard it or read it on the internet." are about the most intelligent answers that I get....except for Wake and Mecklenburg Counties.

Last year we had a client that wanted an NFA weapon, he wanted to, no let's tell it like it was. He INSISTED he had to do the trust, because his Sheriff would not sign. I knew that was not the case with his Sheriff, but figured the client had other "reasons" he did not want to go to the Sheriff.

There you go, more free advise, but at least I know a little bit about NC laws and have a little bit of experience in this particular area of operation.

FWIW

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Starting a Trust

^^^^^^this man knows what he is saying. ^^^^^^

http://www.pdhsc.com/class_iii.htm

both statutes are pretty clear

 

[Geno C.]

Re: Starting a Trust

Careful having your dealer doing your trust with you, if the wrong lawyer gets wind of it there could be problems with having a license to practice law, that may lead to troubles with his FFL...

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Starting a Trust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pfcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had people come to me that said they have heard that Sheriff XX won't sign. Even if I know better, then I ask where they got this information, "well I heard it or read it on the internet." are about the most intelligent answers that I get....except for Wake and Mecklenburg Counties.

</div></div>

pfcustom- I live in Mecklenburg County and want to buy a can. Do you still suggest trying to meet with the Sheriff? If no, what route do you suggest?

Also I have a CCW permit from this Sheriff...not sure if that makes a difference or not.

 

[AJB]

Re: Starting a Trust

JAG wont touch a NFA Trust. Law Office of Randall Baad here in Florida prepares them with a 48hr turn around for $250.

 

[LUNCHBOX0621]

Re: Starting a Trust

tag

 

[AJB]

Re: Starting a Trust

Just to be more clear. Randall Baad's specialty is NFA Trusts. Before you get an attorney to do this make sure they know what the hell they are doing. Otherwise you might as well of made one on legal zoom and get it rejected by the BATFE a bit quicker.

 

[lazy21]

Re: Starting a Trust

http://www.86th.org/?id=nfa-trust

follow all these steps, but make sure you send it to the alanta po box. The one on there is the old address.

 

[pfcustom]

Re: Starting a Trust

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pfcustom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had people come to me that said they have heard that Sheriff XX won't sign. Even if I know better, then I ask where they got this information, "well I heard it or read it on the internet." are about the most intelligent answers that I get....except for Wake and Mecklenburg Counties.

</div></div>

pfcustom- I live in Mecklenburg County and want to buy a can. Do you still suggest trying to meet with the Sheriff? If no, what route do you suggest?

Also I have a CCW permit from this Sheriff...not sure if that makes a difference or not.
</div></div>

WW: That is a tough one, other than moving to a NFA friendly county, there is not much I can recommend. Since moving is an impossibility for most of us. The next thing that I am trying to make happen...and grass roots NC is a good place as any to help get it started. Is to get the NC legislature of change the statues just slightly.
You can get with one of a few "dealers" that will do the trust for you, but i see problems just around the corner with that. I do not think these same "dealers" are even bothering to read NC Statues 14-288.8 or 14-409. Anyone who sells, transfers makes available, buys obtains...words to this effect (it's late and I don't have the statues in front of me!) I interpret that to mean the "dealer" in in violation of the law as well. The part of the law that says ..."must first obtain a permit from the Sheriff of his County."
And IIRC it was an individual in Mecklenburg County where the problem arose that led to the now infamous AG's letter on NFA items in NC back in 1999. At that time, as I understand it, the Mecklenburg County Sheriff's Office did not have machine guns either.
I wish I could give you a better answer. Shoot us an email or phone call sometime...things can change. This legislature we have now might be the one to actually get it thru. Fpr what it's worth. Iredell County is just up the street and Lincoln County is just to your west.
Thanks:

Phil

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Starting a Trust

Phil- I'm realizing what a mistake I made buying in this county. Iredell is 2 mins away on highway 115 and a world of difference from a local govt perspective. I'm selling my house as soon as it won't cost me 100K to do it.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it and I may give you a call to learn more about the NC grass roots movement.

 

[PLeighton]

Re: Starting a Trust

Here are some threads that you may want to read:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...274#Post2433274
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=68037

This approach is where I would recomend that you start.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr. Phil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A good friend of mine gave me some very good advise prior to getting into the NFA game.
He suggested this approach to me and I sure am glad he did.
Ended up getting to know my Sherriff pretty well and now every time I need a CLEO sign off, I need to allow an hour or two to account for conversation.

Approach the CLEO sign off like a job interview.
- Have all of your paperwork complete and ready to sign with signature flags.
- Learn all State and Local laws regarding NFA stuff and bring copies of them with you.
- Make an appointment to see him, but be vague with the purpose.
- Dress nice and be courteous.
- Explain the NFA process to him and honestly convey why you want the items.
(If you want them just to collect and have fun, then tell him that.)
- Be sure to tell him that the purpose for his signature is to ensure that it is legal for you to posses, not a personal endorsement.

Whatever you do, do not say "If you don't sign I'll just go around you via a Trust."
Not a good way to make friends.

Many NC Sheriffs interpret the NC statute to require that you either have a valid business to fulfill the "Research & Development" purpose or a C&R FFL to fulfill the "Validly Licensed Collector" purpose.
Having a C&R FFL is inexpensive ($30 for three years) and also has numerous other benefits such as dealer pricing from Midway USA.

One other thing that is good policy too.
It is bad form to post up Sheriffs names that are willing to sign off.
That is a good way to have a willing Sheriff turn into an unwilling Sheriff.
All it would take would be for one person to say "I read online that you sign off on NFA items."
What would help clarify things greatly would be a "Shall Sign" statute on the books like Tennessee has so that ownership of NFA items isn't at the discretion of the CLEO.
</div></div>

 

[USGILT]

Re: Starting a Trust

One question - If your active duty, are you at the end of your career and planning on retiring in NC? What happens when/if you get reassigned and have to PCS to a non-can friendly state?