Rifle Scopes Steiner t5xi 5.5-25 vs Steiner m5xi 5-26???

[stradibarrius]

What is the major difference between the t5xi and the m5xi? I have a t5xi 5-25 mounted on my Sako TRG22, and have been really happy with it. There is almost a $1000 price difference. What is the difference in performance?
I also have Savage LRP 6.5CM and would like to upgrade the current scope..The use is competition.
Also does Schmidt& Bender have anythin in $2500 range that is comparable?

 

[EDDK9]

Major difference is the Military is made in Germany. Supposedly the same glass, with conflicting reports. Doesn’t necessarily equate to same performance wise. Some like the T-series turrets better than the M-series. I actually like the M turrets and the second rev curtain is a nice feature. Haven’t looked through a T-series scope, but the M glass is a joy to look through, IMO.

Most seem to give the Military series a bad rap from the past experiences the Tactical series, or confuse the two scopes. Which of course is like comparing apples to oranges.

 

[hk dave]

I’ve heard they fixed many of the problems with the Tactical line. I had 2 of the T series and a couple of the Military series.

The T series I had were so bad I thought they were broken. Everyone that looked through them thought the same.

The Military series were amongst the best scopes I’ve ever owned and belong in the same breath as Schmidt & Bender, Kahles and the like.

 

[EDDK9]

I’’d like to own a newer Tactical (T) series some day, as I like their SCR reticle. T-series is also made under the same roof as Burris, in Colorado.

 

[lash]

HK Dave, you do owe it to yourself to look at a current T-Series. No, it's not as good as a Kahles or other higher end scope, but for the price range they actually sell for, there are few to compare.

If M Series ever offered a decent competition reticle, it's market would improve, but then that may not be a reticle type that the military is interested in.

Oh, and OP, check out current prices for the S&B 5-25s on reputable volume sellers here on the Hide. One can definitely snag a new one with usable reticle for under $2500.

 

[EDDK9]

Last I seen you can get the Military in H59 and a T3. Unless things changed. More choices than a TT.

 

[hk dave]

You have one with sweet glass I take it?

 

[lennyo3034]

I have both and the glass is not close. Not that the T5xi is bad but the M5xi feels like its on a different level. I actually bought a S&B to replace the M5xi but once I had the two side by side, I decided to sell the S&B. I do like the Turrets on the T5xi more than anything else though, but 2nd rev indicator on the market.

 

[stradibarrius]

I have done a good bit of review searching and all the more reputable/professional reviewers say the glaas is the same. Made in Germany and sent to Colorado. As I said in my original post I currently have a T5 and I love it. "0" problems, great light transmission, love the SCR reticle. I paid just under $2k. I was just wondering if the M5 was worth the extra $1k???

 

[Xander3Zero]

I have done a good bit of review searching and all the more reputable/professional reviewers say the glaas is the same. Made in Germany and sent to Colorado. As I said in my original post I currently have a T5 and I love it. "0" problems, great light transmission, love the SCR reticle. I paid just under $2k. I was just wondering if the M5 was worth the extra $1k???

If your T series tracks well and you are happy with it, then it will be hard for someone to tell you that upgrading to the M series will be worth the extra 1k. The improvement in glass versus the cost to upgrade will be subjective to each person, some will say that it is night and day and well worth 1k, and some will say to save your money for something else.

 

[lash]

You have one with sweet glass I take it?

Well, it is better than what I recall your experience was for sure. But I agree with all that say the S&B and the M series are better in the glass dept. As is the new NF 7-35. But as I said, it's comparing a $1500 market price optic, vs. the others at $2300-3300 market price.

 

[hk dave]

Good to know. Thanks.

I do recall liking the turrets and overall fit and finish of the scope... def liked the reticle.

 

[CSTactical]

The newest Steiner T5Xi's are much improved over the older generation that had issues, and for a smoking price on one we have some "Blem" 5-25's for just $1,540.00 http://bit.ly/2BrT5qv
The "Blem is just minor cosmetic spots on the bell that don't affect the performance.

 

[EDDK9]

[No message]

 

[stradibarrius]

Does anyone know of a vendor in the Atlanta/Athens area that carries Schmidt& Bender. I want to look through on. Even better if they carry Steiner and SB! I did a google search with no good results. Surely a city the size of Atlanta has a SB vendor...

 

[delfuego]

I think the clicks on the Steiner Military are far too close together (at least for matches). I had the H59 in mine. That said the 2nd revolution indicator is the best I have seen and the scope overall is very good. I do prefer the T5xi knobs and the SCR reticle. Glass is pretty good on either. The glass on my Military model did not wow me, it also got dark over 20x which nearly all scopes seem to do. Just my experience. Cheers!

 

[EDDK9]

I’d agree they are or seem a bit close, but I have no issues ever counting clicks as they have a great tactile feel to them. They are positive clicks without any play in between.

 

[EDDK9]

Compared to HK Dave’s video, I believe the Steiner turrets feel are in more of comparison to S&B’s. I could only dream that every scope was like TT. NF is a close second, IMO.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

What is the major difference between the t5xi and the m5xi? I have a t5xi 5-25 mounted on my Sako TRG22, and have been really happy with it. There is almost a $1000 price difference. What is the difference in performance?
I also have Savage LRP 6.5CM and would like to upgrade the current scope..The use is competition.
Also does Schmidt& Bender have anythin in $2500 range that is comparable?

I spoke with the powers that be at Steiner and they replied:

"T5Xi vs M5Xi = T5Xi’s are built on the same platform as the M5Xi’s. The M5Xi supports rigorous international military standards. The T5Xi scope line services 95% of the US market needs including law enforcement and agency use. There are reticle option differences between the line as well. Same glass, same coatings."


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[Pusher591]

I spoke with the powers that be at Steiner and they replied:

"T5Xi vs M5Xi = T5Xi’s are built on the same platform as the M5Xi’s. The M5Xi supports rigorous international military standards. The T5Xi scope line services 95% of the US market needs including law enforcement and agency use. There are reticle option differences between the line as well. Same glass, same coatings."


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

With all due respect that’s BS. You can set an M5 beside a T5 and the glass difference is obvious. Whoever you spoke with either doesn’t know what they are talking about or they are misinformed. At least that’s been my experience with multiple of each. Hell, my old 4-16 model out performs the T5 substantially in the glass catagory.

Maybe the newer made T5’s are nicer but after the issues they had when they came out (had issues for me on 2) I gave up on the T5 and I wouldn’t take one if you gave it to me, just can’t trust it.

I will say the SCR reticle is my favorite reticle

 

[lennyo3034]

With all due respect that’s BS. You can set an M5 beside a T5 and the glass difference is obvious. Whoever you spoke with either doesn’t know what they are talking about or they are misinformed. At least that’s been my experience with multiple of each. Hell, my old 4-16 model out performs the T5 substantially in the glass catagory.

Maybe the newer made T5’s are nicer but after the issues they had when they came out (had issues for me on 2) I gave up on the T5 and I wouldn’t take one if you gave it to me, just can’t trust it.

I have an M5xi and newer 2017 production T5xi. The difference is immediate as soon as you look through the two.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I have an M5xi and newer 2017 production T5xi. The difference is immediate as soon as you look through the two.

I have passed this thread along to Steiner and await word back that I shall pass along.


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[EDDK9]

As a vendor, have you looked through the two? There was a rep on here in the past, claiming the glass was the same and then came back and said they weren’t the same. Seems like that same old rumor is getting past around again...

 

[Pusher591]

I have passed this thread along to Steiner and await word back that I shall pass along.


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

Pass along this if you don’t mind.

A home run would have been if they just incorporated the turret design,SCR reticle, and aesthetics of the T5 into a second generation M5 and brought it to market at a price that would compete with Nightforce and S&B’s. They wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough.

I use to and still do love my old 4-16 but man it’s huge but turrets and glass are still some of the best I’ve ever felt

 

[lennyo3034]

I have passed this thread along to Steiner and await word back that I shall pass along.


Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

Thank you.

I'll take some time next week to spend some time behind both and give an in depth comparison.

 

[hk dave]

The older 4-16 Military scope is awesome.

 

[blbennett1288]

I really like my T5Xi as the price point is good, I love the turrets and 2nd rev numbers, the glass is good, and I really like the SCR reticle. I have praised them continuously on here as a good $1300-1500 purchase.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Pass along this if you don’t mind.

A home run would have been if they just incorporated the turret design,SCR reticle, and aesthetics of the T5 into a second generation M5 and brought it to market at a price that would compete with Nightforce and S&B’s. They wouldn’t be able to make them fast enough.

I use to and still do love my old 4-16 but man it’s huge but turrets and glass are still some of the best I’ve ever felt

I have sent the thread like to the National from Steiner so he can see all posts and once he has had that opportunity he can give a full reply.

I am also meeting with him at SHOT in 2 weeks and will be discussing this with him.

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[Pusher591]

I have sent the thread like to the National from Steiner so he can see all posts and once he has had that opportunity he can give a full reply.

I am also meeting with him at SHOT in 2 weeks and will be discussing this with him.

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

Thanks Doug!!!

 

[gr8fuldoug]

To all who are really interested in a total Steiner T5xi vs M5xi evaluation please be patient and stay tuned. I just had a conference call with a few folks at Steiner. Either tomorrow or over the weekend we are going to work together for an exact comparison/difference "product explanation" with specific details and I will start a new thread with this information.

IMO, Steiner is an under explored brand in high quality optics. This is partially our fault as we do not mention their offerings enough.

SHOT Show is in 2 weeks and of course I will be posting a detailed report of all my meetings, including Steiner (Wednesday the 24th). I just got a peek at their 2018 book and I have to say that if you want top quality you're doing yourself an injustice by not looking at what Steiner has. Just my $.02

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

 

[CSTactical]

Military Vs Tactical, Military glass wins. With that said I really like the Tactical scope a lot glass is very good enough, the SCR is a very nice reticle, price is right, and I love the low pro turrets.

Mike @ CSTACTICAL

 

[KWilson]

To all who are really interested in a total Steiner T5xi vs M5xi evaluation please be patient and stay tuned. I just had a conference call with a few folks at Steiner. Either tomorrow or over the weekend we are going to work together for an exact comparison/difference "product explanation" with specific details and I will start a new thread with this information.

IMO, Steiner is an under explored brand in high quality optics. This is partially our fault as we do not mention their offerings enough.

SHOT Show is in 2 weeks and of course I will be posting a detailed report of all my meetings, including Steiner (Wednesday the 24th). I just got a peek at their 2018 book and I have to say that if you want top quality you're doing yourself an injustice by not looking at what Steiner has. Just my $.02

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

You may not be able to say at this point in time, but does Steiner have any new high end offerings for 2018? Their Military range gas been around for awhile without any real change but as with most things there's always room for improvement...

 

[lash]

You may not be able to say at this point in time, but does Steiner have any new high end offerings for 2018? Their Military range gas been around for awhile without any real change but as with most things there's always room for improvement...

Well, it's been hinted at, so I think we should all be patient and see what's announced at SHOT. Just a couple more weeks.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

You may not be able to say at this point in time, but does Steiner have any new high end offerings for 2018? Their Military range gas been around for awhile without any real change but as with most things there's always room for improvement...

Steiner will announce 5 new scope offerings at SHOT Show. Stay tuned for my daily SHOT Show Reports Tuesday the 23rd - Thursday the 25th.

 

[PAYDIRT]

I'm very happy with my T5XI. Had a friend check it out and he ordered one also.

 

[KWilson]

Steiner will announce 5 new scope offerings at SHOT Show. Stay tuned for my daily SHOT Show Reports Tuesday the 23rd - Thursday the 25th.

Copy that gold leader.

 

[FNBasham]

To all who are really interested in a total Steiner T5xi vs M5xi evaluation please be patient and stay tuned. I just had a conference call with a few folks at Steiner. Either tomorrow or over the weekend we are going to work together for an exact comparison/difference "product explanation" with specific details and I will start a new thread with this information.

IMO, Steiner is an under explored brand in high quality optics. This is partially our fault as we do not mention their offerings enough.

SHOT Show is in 2 weeks and of course I will be posting a detailed report of all my meetings, including Steiner (Wednesday the 24th). I just got a peek at their 2018 book and I have to say that if you want top quality you're doing yourself an injustice by not looking at what Steiner has. Just my $.02

Thank you for your continued support.
If there is anything else we can assist you with please let me know.
Doug
Camera Land
720 Old Bethpage Rd
Old Bethpage NY 11804
516-217-1000
Please visit our website @ www.cameralandny.com

any news on this update?

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I posted the update here back in January :

Here are specifics:

• OPTICAL DESIGN: The M-Series and T-Series the utilize the same optical design and construction
• GLASS: The physical glass is identical between the two lines
• COATINGS: The M-Series and T-Series glass-to-air coatings are consistent - the difference being the process by which the coatings are applied is more involved on the M5Xi (the process and coatings technology is proprietary to Steiner Optics). The process difference gives the M5Xi an optical advantage, even though the glass is the same. The T5Xi lens coatings are applied in a manner that provides best optical quality at a more accessible price point.
• TURRETS: The M5Xi has DuoScale turrets which have been approved for military use, and place this product line at the top of the Steiner riflescope hierarchy. The T5Xi low-profile Never-Lost turrets provide up to a 3.5oz weight reduction as compared to the M5Xi
• T5Xi DURABILITY: The T-Series is built and tested to the same performance and durability standards as the M-Series.

Obviously, specific technical details cannot be discussed as no mfg would reveal their process. I hope this helps clear up some questions

 

[KWilson]

Any word on whether Steiner has changed their optical formula/lens coatings for the new M7Xi coming out later this year?

 

[AZgeek]

I posted the update here back in January :

Here are specifics:

• OPTICAL DESIGN: The M-Series and T-Series the utilize the same optical design and construction
• GLASS: The physical glass is identical between the two lines
• COATINGS: The M-Series and T-Series glass-to-air coatings are consistent - the difference being the process by which the coatings are applied is more involved on the M5Xi (the process and coatings technology is proprietary to Steiner Optics). The process difference gives the M5Xi an optical advantage, even though the glass is the same. The T5Xi lens coatings are applied in a manner that provides best optical quality at a more accessible price point.
• TURRETS: The M5Xi has DuoScale turrets which have been approved for military use, and place this product line at the top of the Steiner riflescope hierarchy. The T5Xi low-profile Never-Lost turrets provide up to a 3.5oz weight reduction as compared to the M5Xi
• T5Xi DURABILITY: The T-Series is built and tested to the same performance and durability standards as the M-Series.

Obviously, specific technical details cannot be discussed as no mfg would reveal their process. I hope this helps clear up some questions

Hogwash! The T5Xi is not "built" to the same standards. Mine is back with Steiner for a second time. First was tracking, this time the parallax adjustment. It was always suspect and I could never get the sharp image I get with my other scopes. It finally went kaput. Focus it, then shot it or rack the bolt, and it goes out of focus.

Do yourself a favor and go M5Xi.

 

[.338master]

The M5Xi is definately playing in a totally different league. If you ever had the chance to own or shoot one you will understand it. It is one of the best scopes ever built. Very cristal clear pictures, tracking and mechanic are just amazing.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Any word on whether Steiner has changed their optical formula/lens coatings for the new M7Xi coming out later this year?

As far as I know they have not changed for the new M7 line.

 

[koshkin]

Doug, can you tell me who at Steiner is telling you all this stuff? (privately of course)

A couple of points:

Raw glass source may be the same for T and M series, but the actual optical system used is clearly different between T-series and M-series. FOV is different. Exit pupil at low mag is different. Edge performance is different. Eye piece performs very differently. Adjustment range is different. Individual lens elements are probably built to the same spec in the same place, but the overall optical system is not the same. I tested 3-15x50 versions of the T5Xi and M5Xi side by side a couple of years ago.

Now, I have been to the Burris factory and I saw how they build the T- series. They had some early issues, but they were resolved and it is a very good scope. I would recommend it a lot more if they had a non-Horus Christmas tree reticle. Optomechanically, I like the T-series quite a bit.

The optical system between M5 and M7 is different. By definition. Coatings may be the same. Optical formula is most certainly different. Some portions of objective and eyepiece may carry over. Erector system is definitely different.

M5 was a good scope, but had some consistent optical flaws in every sample I saw. I fully expect M7 to be better, but I will make sure I test one when the opportunity presents itself. I will probably test it against the Tangent Theta when the new reticle comes out.

ILya

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Ilya,
Just sent you a text

 

[GeoffatBurris]

One of my counterparts from Beyrueth is bringing a prototype M7xi to NRA show in Dallas next week. I do not think an M8xi will be there. The M series scopes are German products, so Steiner USA, where I work, will function just as the US distributor on this product. It gets complicated, but for this product it just means we won't have a lot of exact details until a lot closer to its actual sales date. Which will be late summer or fall for the M7, later for the M8 and later yet for US release of the IFS versions.

---------

When someone said the T series and M series are "built to the same standards" I think they just meant they both hold up to same recoil and shock standards. The M series is obviously built with no compromises at all. As a result it's heavy, very expensive, and practically a custom order. M series features are all dictated by military orders, which means a particular style of turret, for example. This scope-nerd forum is just about the only place anyone really even talks about the M series. The market for $3k plus scopes is pretty small.

The T series is amazing for taking a surprising amount of the technology and engineering from the M series, and making it available in a civilian-wallet-friendly package. It's still hard for me to talk about a $1500 optic being "budget" but I'm getting used to it. Because it didn't need to meet the same military specifications, the T series product team was able to get a bit fancier with the neat "never-lost" turret design.

Cheers to all of you, and thanks for your interest and support.

--Geoff at Steiner/Burris

PS: interesting side note - our eOptics division is FINALLY using their military experience to get some products out to the civvy market. The TOR line of pistol lasers will be out later this year. Same guys as did the DBALS, etc., but in the $300 price range. Auto-on, green or red, super small. Plus some things demanded by Miltary carried through, like a constant power level, so no dimming as the battery goes down. I like it when the civilian team gets some military inspired stuff, whether it's T5Xi or these.

 

[koshkin]

One of my counterparts from Beyrueth is bringing a prototype M7xi to NRA show in Dallas next week. I do not think an M8xi will be there. The M series scopes are German products, so Steiner USA, where I work, will function just as the US distributor on this product. It gets complicated, but for this product it just means we won't have a lot of exact details until a lot closer to its actual sales date. Which will be late summer or fall for the M7, later for the M8 and later yet for US release of the IFS versions.

---------

When someone said the T series and M series are "built to the same standards" I think they just meant they both hold up to same recoil and shock standards. The M series is obviously built with no compromises at all. As a result it's heavy, very expensive, and practically a custom order. M series features are all dictated by military orders, which means a particular style of turret, for example. This scope-nerd forum is just about the only place anyone really even talks about the M series. The market for $3k plus scopes is pretty small.

The T series is amazing for taking a surprising amount of the technology and engineering from the M series, and making it available in a civilian-wallet-friendly package. It's still hard for me to talk about a $1500 optic being "budget" but I'm getting used to it. Because it didn't need to meet the same military specifications, the T series product team was able to get a bit fancier with the neat "never-lost" turret design.

Cheers to all of you, and thanks for your interest and support.

--Geoff at Steiner/Burris

PS: interesting side note - our eOptics division is FINALLY using their military experience to get some products out to the civvy market. The TOR line of pistol lasers will be out later this year. Same guys as did the DBALS, etc., but in the $300 price range. Auto-on, green or red, super small. Plus some things demanded by Miltary carried through, like a constant power level, so no dimming as the battery goes down. I like it when the civilian team gets some military inspired stuff, whether it's T5Xi or these.

I won't make it to Dallas, so let me know what you think of the M7. I am definitely curious.

I agree on the T-series. As I've been saying, after some early issues, all the ones I have seen since were exceedingly good. Are you sure I can't get you to make a separate run of T5s with a "Dark Lord Special" reticle of some sort?

ILya

 

[.338master]

I really Love the M5xi scope. One of the best scope ever built. I will definately buy a M7xi.

 

[aauya]

One of my counterparts from Beyrueth is bringing a prototype M7xi to NRA show in Dallas next week. I do not think an M8xi will be there. The M series scopes are German products, so Steiner USA, where I work, will function just as the US distributor on this product. It gets complicated, but for this product it just means we won't have a lot of exact details until a lot closer to its actual sales date. Which will be late summer or fall for the M7, later for the M8 and later yet for US release of the IFS versions.

---------

When someone said the T series and M series are "built to the same standards" I think they just meant they both hold up to same recoil and shock standards. The M series is obviously built with no compromises at all. As a result it's heavy, very expensive, and practically a custom order. M series features are all dictated by military orders, which means a particular style of turret, for example. This scope-nerd forum is just about the only place anyone really even talks about the M series. The market for $3k plus scopes is pretty small.

The T series is amazing for taking a surprising amount of the technology and engineering from the M series, and making it available in a civilian-wallet-friendly package. It's still hard for me to talk about a $1500 optic being "budget" but I'm getting used to it. Because it didn't need to meet the same military specifications, the T series product team was able to get a bit fancier with the neat "never-lost" turret design.

Cheers to all of you, and thanks for your interest and support.

--Geoff at Steiner/Burris

PS: interesting side note - our eOptics division is FINALLY using their military experience to get some products out to the civvy market. The TOR line of pistol lasers will be out later this year. Same guys as did the DBALS, etc., but in the $300 price range. Auto-on, green or red, super small. Plus some things demanded by Miltary carried through, like a constant power level, so no dimming as the battery goes down. I like it when the civilian team gets some military inspired stuff, whether it's T5Xi or these.

Doug, what is the differacce between the tix 5-25x56

Ilya,
Just sent you a text

Doug, what is the difference between the T5x 5-25x56 # 5125 and the #5126

 

[gr8fuldoug]

The 5122 is MIL
The 5126 is MOA
They is not currently a 5125