Rifle Scopes Steiner T5xi vs M5xi clarity

[lennyo3034]

I'm looking for opinions on those who have owned both. I have a T5xi and the glass is pretty decent for the price I paid (below 1500). I have spent a fair amount of time side by side with my other optics at the next higher price range, and it does not compare. Clarity is pretty good, CA is noticeable, but my biggest complaint is a sensitive eyepiece and diopter.

Most all reviews I've seen have been highly positive leading me to think glass quality must be at a higher level than the T5xi. However I've seen many reviews saying they use the same glass. Has anyone put the two side by side and compared?

FWIW my T5xi was purchased new in 2017 and I've tested tracking to 15 mils with no issues.

 

[hk dave]

Have no clue if they fixed the glass issues since the big debacle years back but I owned two m series and two t series. There was no comparison.

 

[lennyo3034]

Good to know, thank you. While the glass on my T5xi is not "bad" it was obvious that my Gen2 razor is on a different level.

Ive never looked through the M series and hope it's more on par with the Gen 2 razor.

 

[hk dave]

The m and razor gen2 are really close.

 

[Pusher591]

M series glass is very nice. Leaps and bounds IMHO over the T5X

 

[noisewaterphd]

I have an old M5 4-16 that has what I consider to be pretty amazing glass. I finally got myself a T5xi 5-25, so not a real direct comparison, but they are pretty damn close. The 4-16 looks better to me, but not that much better. According to Steiner the M and T series use the same glass.

I'll bet if you did a blind comparison between 2 5-25's, you would be hard pressed to tell a difference. Blind comparisons always end up being pretty funny. I can't tell you how many times I've watched self-proclaimed glass snobs make pretty humorous picks.

The best thing you can do with glass is just go look for yourself. Don't worry what someone else thinks of it. Unless your reason for purchasing is to impress somebody.

 

[Flyingbullseye]

Had a 4-16 a few years back and later a 25X M series and have since spent some time looking through a 15X M series. I loved the 16X and felt the glass was fantastic, equal to the schmidt counterpart, I don't have a positive opinion for the 15 and 25X models, especially for the money Steiner is asking. Side by side its noticeable, I have yet to look through a T series scope.

 

[lennyo3034]

Well I committed to buying a M5xi and will be able to compare it soon. I will post my thoughts here.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

My opinion on these scopes.The M5Xi has premium level glass in the same category as the Kahles, PMII, ATACR and Razor Gen II. The T5Xi is similar in comparison to NXS quality glass. Hope this helps.

 

[SNAFU308]

I was recently sent both a T5Xi and a M5Xi by Beretta Australia to test. The T5Xi is good for the price but the M5Xi has significantly better glass. I've had the M5Xi side by side with S&B etc and it's right there with them. They definitely don't use the same glass. As to if the increase in glass quality is worth the price that completely comes down to you.

I have since purchased a couple of M5Xi for my Accuracy International AX and AXMC

 

[lash]

I agree. I don't know where it is that all these people saw that the T5Xi and M5Xi had the same glass. I've followed the T5Xi scope since it was first announced and bought one of the first batch to be shipped. While I like it plenty for the price I paid and what it is, especially the turrets and reticle, it does not have M5Xi level glass.

I suspect that someone read it somewhere on the internet and the idea grew from there. It certainly doesn't say that anywhere on the Steiner site that I have seen.

 

[kl3309]

I seem to recall that the factory rep. actually said that it was the same glass in his opening post but since he later edited that post, I can't confirm that.

In answering my question regarding whether the eye-relief would remain constant on the T-series, username STEINER OPTICS stated on 05/26/14, "The optics are exactly the same as the current 5x scopes so the eye relief will stay pretty much constant throughout the range. That was one feature that I considered a must have and they nailed it. You will be happy with it."

STEINER OPTICS edited his reply on 06/10/14 to say, "The eye relief remains constant."

Here's a link to the thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...l-rifle-scopes

 

[kl3309]

Username LOCOBEAR quoted STEINER OPTICS in post #337 of the thread I linked. The quoted statement is "Same glass but that is pretty much where the comparison stops. Everything else was redesigned by the Steiner team here in the US. This is a US made product and thats where the cost savings came in for us. It made sense and it worked out great."

I can't find where STEINER OPTICS wrote that so I'm thinking that's part of what was edited out of his original post.

 

[lash]

I am not trying to throw anyone under the bus. If an enthusiastic salesman miss posted, I get it and guess I can see where that misunderstanding came from. It's obviously not the case though, as is evidenced by more than a few well respected opinions and reviews by those that have both.

The two scope lines should honestly just be taken for what they really are and regarded with respect to the competition in their price range.

Personally, I'd like to see the M5Xi line come out with a better reticle series. Though I guess they see their primary customers as military in nature and we all know that that market has way more influence from sources other than the guys on the front lines.

 

[BobinNC]

So it appears we have established that the M5Xi glass is "clearly" superior to the T5Xi glass. That said, since the M5Xi glass is about 100% more expensive than the T5Xi glass, I would like to know from those that have had both how many more targets you have hit with the M5 over the T5?? 100% more, 50%, 20%, 5%, et al.

I would bet it's close to 0%, once again proving that though glass quality is important, it's nowhere near as important as other factors. But the savants like to argue about how glass quality, in scopes costing say around $1.5K or more, is something really significant in actually hitting and identifying your target in a non-hostle environment for fun or sport.

 

[lennyo3034]

I have attempted shots on targets I could see with some scopes but not with others.

 

[lash]

Out at ELR distances, glass quality, or rather the ability to see distant targets clearly is absolutely different/better when using a superior scope vs one that will work fine at PRS comp type distances. At 1200 and in, I can make hits on most targets with glass in the $1000 range as good as with better, with the rare exception of steel targets in shadow that have been hit so many times that they all but disappear unless you have glass that will resolve in the shadows.

So it depends upon your application.

 

[xTBIRDx]

Well I committed to buying a M5xi and will be able to compare it soon. I will post my thoughts here.

So Lenny, did you ever get this comparison done? Curious as to what you think.

 

[lennyo3034]

I did get the M5xi in however I have not mounted it yet and have not done an in depth comparison. It does seem to have less CA than the T5xi but beyond that I have not looked through closely enough. Time has been an issue lately.

 

[Pusher591]

So it appears we have established that the M5Xi glass is "clearly" superior to the T5Xi glass. That said, since the M5Xi glass is about 100% more expensive than the T5Xi glass, I would like to know from those that have had both how many more targets you have hit with the M5 over the T5?? 100% more, 50%, 20%, 5%, et al.

I would bet it's close to 0%, once again proving that though glass quality is important, it's nowhere near as important as other factors. But the savants like to argue about how glass quality, in scopes costing say around $1.5K or more, is something really significant in actually hitting and identifying your target in a non-hostle environment for fun or sport.

I disagree to a point. I understand what you mean but glass makes a big difference when hunting early morning/late afternoon and also with some of my better scopes I can see exactly where I'm hitting on the target vs. hearing the steal ring and just knowing I hit it. This is important in learning your holds/reticle if you plan on hunting long range or competing.

 

[lennyo3034]

I had the M5xi out today. Still not mounted but was able to place it on bags. My rifle with the T5xi is down so I didn't have it. I was able to compare it to a Gen2 Razor 4.5-27 though.

The CA is worse on the Steiner than Razor. That's the first thing I noticed. When the eye is centered in the eyebox, a lot of the CA went away but it was hard to find the sweet spot. Maybe it will be different if mounted. The FOV seemed better on the Razor with both at 20x. That's just moving the ring to "20x" and I'm not sure if they were both at the exact same mag.

The contrast was better on the Steiner. I was looking at flowers in trees and they seemed to pop better. Looking at a white paper target, the Steiner seemed to be more naturally colored and brighter. The Razor made it look dull and yellowish by comparison. As far as resolution, I would have to give it to the Steiner as well. I was spotting hits on black paper and it was just easier with the Steiner. That may have more to do with contrast though.

I'm undecided on which I like more. Hard choice but the Razor certainly did not blow the M5xi away like it did the T5xi.

 

[700smooth]

Following kinda curious on this

 

[EDDK9]

Haven't looked through a T series, but the Military series glass is impressive. If the T series is the same glass, from which I've seen mixed answers, than the Tactical series would be a bargain.

 

[Pusher591]

Haven't looked through a T series, but the Military series glass is impressive. If the T series is the same glass, from which I've seen mixed answers, than the Tactical series would be a bargain.

Without a doubt the T-series DOES NOT have the same glass. There is no comparison. Hope this helps if you are planning on buying one. The M-series is worth the extra cost over the T.

 

[EDDK9]

I do not plan on buying one. I almost bought one for the money, until I found a deal on the military series. I'm glad I didnt get the T series, but now I've been spoiled with the M glass. Thanks for the info.... makes me feel a little better about my purchase.

 

[lennyo3034]

Update, I tested both next to a new to me S&B 3-20X50 and my March 3-24X42. I was looking at a pine tree (cones and needles) at about 200 yards on 20X in early morning light.

I was behind the T5xi for all of 10 seconds before deciding it did not belong with this crowd. The CA was worse by an order of magnitude compared to everything else. I put it away pretty quickly and did not go as in depth with it as the other three.

Speaking of CA, the March still handled it the best followed by the S&B then Steiner M5xi.

All the pine cones were in shade and the Steiner showed most detail on them, followed by S&B then March. Interestingly the Steiner is a 56mm Objective, S&B a 50mm, and March a 42mm.

Resolution on the Pine needles in good light was too close to call between the three.

Steiner and S&B had more "Pop" than March. Pretty close between the two.

Image seemed to degrade more when moving eye off center with Steiner than S&B. Both gained CA when eye was off center. March did not have this problem, although the eyebox is much smaller on the March so I couldn't move it off center as much.

Eyebox on Steiner was a bit better than S&B, but 56mm vs 50mm Objective on same mag.

Finally, a Razor HD 85mm Spotting scope kicked the shit out of everything here.

 

[lennyo3034]

Although I seem pretty critical of the T-series glass in my last two reviews, I've been running it on a .223 bolt gun and it has performed brilliantly. Perfect tracking (updated turrets), and have been able to get consistent hits at 1000 on multiple days. Even lucked a few hits in at 1065. The reticle is my favorite amongst everything I tested today.

 

[fdkay]

One things folks seem to be missing.
They may indeed have the same glass, but different coatings.
Coatings can make a world of difference.
I'm not saying they do use the same glass, or maybe it is sourced from the same place with different standards.

 

[steelcomp]

I had an opportunity a couple weeks ago to shoot two of my rifles side by side, one with a USO LR17 and the other my Steiner Military 5-25. I'm not sure why, but I could not get the Steiner to focus any where near as clearly as the USO. The USO was incredible...I was using it to spot shots for everyone else, but I really struggled to see the shots with the Steiner. I'm going to go back and see if it was something I was doing but this isn't my first rodeo. I was pretty disappointed in the Steiner. I'm hoping it was an anomaly.
Edit to add: the Steiner was purchased new last year.

 

[scudzuki]

I agree. I don't know where it is that all these people saw that the T5Xi and M5Xi had the same glass. I've followed the T5Xi scope since it was first announced and bought one of the first batch to be shipped. While I like it plenty for the price I paid and what it is, especially the turrets and reticle, it does not have M5Xi level glass.

I suspect that someone read it somewhere on the internet and the idea grew from there. It certainly doesn't say that anywhere on the Steiner site that I have seen.

I remember Steiner making that claim when the T series was announced. They claimed the optics would be at least as good as the M but that the T scopes would cost less.

 

[scudzuki]

Update, I tested both next to a new to me S&B 3-20X50 and my March 3-24X42. I was looking at a pine tree (cones and needles) at about 200 yards on 20X in early morning light.

I was behind the T5xi for all of 10 seconds before deciding it did not belong with this crowd. The CA was worse by an order of magnitude compared to everything else. I put it away pretty quickly and did not go as in depth with it as the other three.

Speaking of CA, the March still handled it the best followed by the S&B then Steiner M5xi.

All the pine cones were in shade and the Steiner showed most detail on them, followed by S&B then March. Interestingly the Steiner is a 56mm Objective, S&B a 50mm, and March a 42mm.

Resolution on the Pine needles in good light was too close to call between the three.

Steiner and S&B had more "Pop" than March. Pretty close between the two.

Image seemed to degrade more when moving eye off center with Steiner than S&B. Both gained CA when eye was off center. March did not have this problem, although the eyebox is much smaller on the March so I couldn't move it off center as much.

Eyebox on Steiner was a bit better than S&B, but 56mm vs 50mm Objective on same mag.

Finally, a Razor HD 85mm Spotting scope kicked the shit out of everything here.

One thing I remember from the M series (I had 2 different 5550s, M5 5-25 MSR) is they had very large eyeboxes but off axis (pupil not centered in the eyebox) there was lots of CA.

 

[EDDK9]

I have a military 5-25 G2B and witness zero CA. I guess experiences seem to vary quite a lot.

 

[lennyo3034]

One thing I remember from the M series (I had 2 different 5550s, M5 5-25 MSR) is they had very large eyeboxes but off axis (pupil not centered in the eyebox) there was lots of CA.

Yep, exactly what I'm seeing.

 

[Cherodjr]

I'm looking at the Steiner T5xi. These post are from 2017. Today the retail is about 2K. One large supplier has 143 reviews and rate it with 5 stars. Is there more love now than in 2017? Thanks

 

[lennyo3034]

I never take website reviews into account. I don’t know which vendor you’re referring to but take those with a grain of salt. Also you shouldn’t be paying anywhere near 2k for one. I paid 1400 for mine back in 2017 and the prices have only gone down since then.

 

[Cherodjr]

I never take website reviews into account. I don’t know which vendor you’re referring to but take those with a grain of salt. Also you shouldn’t be paying anywhere near 2k for one. I paid 1400 for mine back in 2017 and the prices have only gone down since then.

Do you mind sharing where you purchased yours from? Thanks

 

[Charger442]

Do you mind sharing where you purchased yours from? Thanks

A lot of different places. I may have an option for you if you PM me

 

[smoothy8500]

Is there more love now than in 2017?

I had bought a used T5xi not too long ago and felt the CA was excessive. I sent it in for an evaluation and they replaced it. The consensus is Steiners do occasionally (or frequently?) have a problem with CA, but their warranty took care of mine.

 

[Cherodjr]

I had bought a used T5xi not too long ago and felt the CA was excessive. I sent it in for an evaluation and they replaced it. The consensus is Steiners do occasionally (or frequently?) have a problem with CA, but their warranty took care of mine.

Thank You!

 

[kthomas]

The M5 has excellent glass. Overall, it's a great scope and underrated, IMO. I think the biggest thing missing on the M5's is the reticle choices, hopefully they've changed that recently.

Sometime last year I was with the range with the wife and her gun. Her gun has my first precision rifle scope, a Steiner M5 on it (one of the first in the country), and with my rifle which has a Khales K624 scope. Shooting paper at 100 yards, the M5 had noticeably better resolution then the Khales.

I love my Khales, but the Steiner M5's are an excellent and often overlooked scope. Can't speak to the T5 series, I've never seen one in person.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I just bought a new T5xi 5-25x56 on Amazon for $1409. They only had 10 of them,and they went fast. Gonna shoot with it tomorrow,and see how it performs,and see if I like it.