Night Vision Step up from Breach?

[DutyRanger]

I bought a Breach last year for helmet mounted applications. This year I bought a Yoter c for longer range surveillance applications. I've been blown away by the difference in detail between the 2 images.

So now I'm curious about offloading the Breach and stepping up to a 1x helmet mounted thermal with comparable picture quality to the Yoter. It would be phenomenal if Bering would make the Phenom in a footprint comparable to the Breach or MH25. Unfortunately that's obviously not an option.

What options are available in a helmet mountable 1x scanner that has picture detail comparable to the Yoter that is under the 4.5k pricetag?

Obviously there's the MH25. I've heard mixed reviews of it. Is it a duty quality optic?

AGM has the Sting IR in a 384 and a 640. I haven't found much info on them. And for some reason, AGM just seems kind of sketch to me. I keep reading about repair possibly being an issue after warranty runs out. Thermals get good reports but everybody says stay away from their I2. Something about them just seems off to me.

There seems to be a few options from Trijicon. I haven't quite figured them out. And I think everything from Trijicon will exceed the 4.5k pricetag.

Nox is to expensive.

Seems like it only comes down to MH25 and AGM Sting. Am I missing anything? Is it worth trading a Breach for either of these?

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

MH25 is awesome if you aren't a die hard against Chinese products. Had one for a year and it's impressive. Ran it next to a WP PVS-14 on a KVC bridge.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Problem with all head mounted 1x units is no matter what, none are gonna give you much at distance because of the density of the FPA array vs the sq inch FOV it is sampling. Yeah some will give you a smoother view up close but still lacks at any real mid to long range performance.

Even the best head mounted 1x units just do not offer any meaningful performance for the huge increase in cost over the Breach enough to make any substantial difference IMHO.

The reason the Yoter C does so well is its FOV at 1x is 8.8 x 7.0 degrees with a 50 mm lens then you are zooming in with a scope. For it to look good as a scanner, you are changing out the ocular lens system and going to 4x native magnification.

The only way to get a great 1x head mounted system that performs like the Yoter C at distance would require the unit to have a easily self contained mechanism to optically zoom in. To my knowledge, that critter does not currently exist.

Right now the IRAY RH 25 looks like about the best thing going solution (head mounted plus Clip On) for the dollars expended, simply because it adds a good short to medium clip on capability at $6,000.

RICO MICRO 640 12 Micron 25mm Multi-Purpose Monocular

The RICO MICRO Series is an advanced electro-optic device miniaturized to deliver remarkably versatile functionality: Handheld, helmet mount, weapon mount, and clip-on.

irayusa.com

 

[WhereNow&How]

My philosophy is to run relatively cheap short range thermal (that is rugged in construction and reliability) for head mounted and instantly be able to supplement that with strong thermal capability as well as strong IR capability that provides clarity from short to long range.

It all boils down to FOV.

 

[WhereNow&How]

This is the proverbial dilemma right now on a true do all, one and done thermal.

 

[DutyRanger]

Problem with all head mounted 1x units is no matter what, none are gonna give you much at distance because of the density of the FPA array vs the sq inch FOV it is sampling. Yeah some will give you a smoother view up close but still lacks at any real mid to long range performance.

Even the best head mounted 1x units just do not offer any meaningful performance for the huge increase in cost over the Breach enough to make any substantial difference IMHO.

The reason the Yoter C does so well is its FOV at 1x is 8.8 x 7.0 degrees with a 50 mm lens then you are zooming in with a scope. For it to look good as a scanner, you are changing out the ocular lens system and going to 4x native magnification.

The only way to get a great 1x head mounted system that performs like the Yoter C at distance would require the unit to have a easily self contained mechanism to optically zoom in. To my knowledge, that critter does not currently exist.

Right now the IRAY RH 25 looks like about the best thing going solution (head mounted plus Clip On) for the dollars expended, simply because it adds a good short to medium clip on capability at $6,000.

RICO MICRO 640 12 Micron 25mm Multi-Purpose Monocular

The RICO MICRO Series is an advanced electro-optic device miniaturized to deliver remarkably versatile functionality: Handheld, helmet mount, weapon mount, and clip-on.

irayusa.com

Sorry, guess I wasn't really clear in my description. Not looking for the long distance performance of the Yoter in a 1x. I understand the 1x would have to zoom to equal the 4x of the Yoter and each zoom level cuts the performance/resolution of the thermal.

The Yoter has great all around detail in it's picture. My Breach doesn't have the same all around picture detail. A lot of it seems to wash out.

Maybe it's mainly due to my ignorance. Maybe I need to spend more time fiddling with settings. It seems like I spend a lot of time fiddling with them though. A 1x that doesn't need as much fiddling with settings to get the resolution the Yoter provides without the fiddling would be nice.

Your comment of meaningful performance increase for cost increase is really the clincher I was wondering about though.

 

[DutyRanger]

MH25 is awesome if you aren't a die hard against Chinese products. Had one for a year and it's impressive. Ran it next to a WP PVS-14 on a KVC bridge.

While I would like to keep the money at home, I really have to account for the most bang for the buck and versatility so commie sensors are not excluded.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

MH25 than, you won't be disappointed.

 

[TheHorta]

MH25 crushes the Breach. Total decimation. Not even close.

RH25 is ruggedized, weapon-mountable version of the MH with other improvements. If you can squeeze the extra $1500 for a BOCO purchase, you won’t regret it.

 

[WhereNow&How]

They are no longer sold new, but if you can find one of these it makes making adjustments to the Breach much easier. I take these and make a velcro watch band that I put on my wrist which makes adjusting the Breach a breeze. Them little Breach buttons will wear your finger tips out.

Also, with a fixed focus, the Breach will never give as sharp an image as a comparable adjustable focus unit will. But IMHO it is a very good performer at its price range for what it is. And it is rugged and with the Battery Extender running 16650's gives good run times. Don't get me wrong. I wish it did better but accept and utilize its capability for what it is good at.

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www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[WhereNow&How]

MH25 crushes the Breach. Total decimation. Not even close.

RH25 is ruggedized, weapon-mountable version of the MH with other improvements. If you can squeeze the extra $1500 for a BOCO purchase, you won’t regret it.

Yep, I agree with Horta on the extra $1,500 for the RH25. I would pass on the MH 25.

 

[DutyRanger]

Well it'll probably be another year before any more optic purchases can occur. Sounds like with the versatility/bang for the buck philosophy in mind, I'm not in a bad place. Could be better though. We'll see how things progress over the next year and revisit.

 

[DutyRanger]

Yep, I agree with Horta on the extra $1,500 for the RH25. I would pass on the MH 25.

Why pass on MH25?

 

[DutyRanger]

They are no longer sold new, but if you can find one of these it makes making adjustments to the Breach much easier. I take these and make a velcro watch band that I put on my wrist which makes adjusting the Breach a breeze. Them little Breach buttons will wear your finger tips out.

Also, with a fixed focus, the Breach will never give as sharp an image as a comparable adjustable focus unit will. But IMHO it is a very good performer at its price range for what it is. And it is rugged and with the Battery Extender running 16650's gives good run times. Don't get me wrong. I wish it did better but accept and utilize its capability for what it is good at.

FLIR 5-Button Wireless Remote Control for ThermoSight Pro (Matte Black)

Buy FLIR 5-Button Wireless Remote Control for ThermoSight Pro (Matte Black) featuring For ThermoSight Pro, Allows Remote Wireless Operation, Powered by CR2032 Battery, Polymer Construction. Review FLIR null

www.bhphotovideo.com

Breach buttons definitely are a pain in the butt, especially with gloves in my cold environment. I'll keep an eye out for one of these.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Yep, with that Yoter C in hand, you can solve any substantive failings the Breach or COTI may deliver.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Why pass on MH25?

Well for me if I am gonna increase funds from a say $2,000-$2,300 Breach to $4,500 MH25 im gonna add $1,500 more for an aluminum housing and clip on capability. $1,500 is a pretty cheap added price for a rugged aluminum housing and clip on ability in my book.

I am a cheap or a somewhat expensive type of guy. Nowhere near Hortaville Expensive I am not much on what I call mid range stuff.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Another way I look at it is this.

Cheap 320 wide FOV for head mounted etc for close in can be then supplemented and hugely enhanced with relatively cheap 320 with a narrow FOV that has a very small Sq. In sampled per 1 FPA pixel. I have some 320 units that will smoke just about any 640 unit out there, albeit you better like a small FOV.