Sticky bolt-cycle remedies? Titanium long action

[Clownbuster]

Guys, my Pierce Ti long action bolt cycles like crap. Sticky, gritty...crap. I've looked at Melonite, DLC and Teflon coating the bolt and due to not having any experience with this, I'm just not convinced of any one specific application / direction to acheive the desired effect. While my Defiance, Bighorn, Borden and Lone Peak Arms actions all cycle like an oil-covered foot slipping into a glass slipper, I understand this action inherently will likely not. Yes, I'm calling Pierce to get their advice, but:

-What have you done, or what can you offer as constructive advice based on knowledge, to recommend in "smoothing" out the operation of the bolt?
-Any of the above mentioned coatings? Who can you recommend to offer these treatments/coatings?
-Polishing the bolt?
-Polishing the bolt and inside the action body?
-Whatever is done to the bolt, do you recommend also for inside the action body?

If your constructive advice based on your knowledge is "sell the fucker and buy a Chromoly action", please do not contribute, as I'm having the same issue with my Cerakoted short action Stiller TAC 30 bolt setup built by Short Action Customs...

Thanks for any help!

 

[lte82]

http://www.gotxring.com/new-cmi-action-slick/

This stuff was made specifically for what you are having issues with, though I haven't tried it. Gary has a ton of experience so I'd trust him. I also have used weaponshield on my pierce action with results that were head and shoulders better than anything else.

 

[Clownbuster]

Nice thanks. Are you talking about the WeaponsShield Grease? I've wondered about using that...

 

[KevinCollins]

Titanium is not a particularly good material for bolt-action receivers. Generally, it is not as hard as the alloy or stainless steels that are usually used. Titanium is much more prone to galling than steel, which can result in a sticky or rough feel to the action.

Old, military receivers were carburized to produce a hard case. The case made the surface very hard and somewhat slick. The case also helped prevent galling. Case-hardened steel (nitrided, carburized, etc.) is the ideal material for bolt-action rifle receivers. AISI 9310 is a good choice, as is AISI 8620 alloy steel for a carburized receiver.

Later,

Kevin

 

[Clownbuster]

Agreed Kevin. Do you have any recommendation for a solution to the current problem?

 

[KevinCollins]

Some studies have shown that gas nitriding 6Al-4V titanium can decrease its fatigue strength. Meloniting your receiver will give it a hard surface, but some of its strength might be sacrificed. DLC might help, but you will have to get the bolt raceways smooth before they are coated.

Later,

Kevin

 

[Clownbuster]

10-4, thank you.

 

[KevinCollins]

IonBond has several PVD and DLC coatings that are available. I think they have an FFL, so they can probably treat your receiver. One of their coatings would be my first choice.

Titanium and its alloys are weird materials. If they can be chromium- or nickel-plated, then those could be some nice options. The Teflon-impregnated, electroless nickel finishes are really nice.

If the receiver needs to be black, then a PVD or DLC coating is probably your best bet. Since titanium can be anodized, it might be possible to hard anodize it black. I don't know any companies that anodize titanium, but I know that there are companies that do it.

Later,

Kevin

 

[SDet]

Melonite isn't an option.
Ionbond doesn't have an ffl.
Nitriding it would make it gold, just look up ti nitride.

That said, just about any wear oriented pvd coating will make it much better. Nickel boron is also an option. Just make sure whoever does it has worked with titanium. You really don't want it over 800 degrees unless it's in a vacuum or controlled atmosphere.

Good luck

 

[KevinCollins]

A quick internet search shows that IonBond has an FFL for their facilities in Greensboro, NC and Portsmouth, NH. Their website even shows one of their coatings (Decobond FDE-STD-595B) on a M1911 frame. I suggest contacting Ton Hurkmans ([email protected]), and ask him about how to coat your titanium action.

http://www.ionbond.com/en/coating-services/decorative/deco-and-sport/firearms/#c294

Later,

Kevin

 

[lte82]

Nice thanks. Are you talking about the WeaponsShield Grease? I've wondered about using that...

Actually, the oil. I just put a tiny bit on the lugs, especially where they run along the raceways of the action. I know it sounds like it wouldn't work, but it did wonders for me. Other oils seemed to oxidize and get sticky quick. I've tried several greases too, with moly and ptfe, but those didn't really work either. I think the key with the weaponshield is that it doesn't oxidize and forms a good boundary layer keeping metal to metal contact to a minimum.

 

[mdesign]

If your bolt is painted, remove the paint and run Marvel's custom oil in the bolt, kind of heavy for a while until it breaks in...huge difference on my Stillers.

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

Melonite isn't an option.
Ionbond doesn't have an ffl.
Nitriding it would make it gold, just look up ti nitride.

That said, just about any wear oriented pvd coating will make it much better. Nickel boron is also an option. Just make sure whoever does it has worked with titanium. You really don't want it over 800 degrees unless it's in a vacuum or controlled atmosphere.

Good luck

Nitriding doesn't always make it gold, just Ti nitriding, or Ti PVD. Nitriding can also make it black. And PVD comes in all sorts of colors, gold, silver, grey, black etc...
Just depends on what type of nitriding or PVD.

I don't recall who it was, but I was on the phone with Defiance Machine a while back and they explained to me that the guy who does their optional IonBonding is excellent, and can polish an action up before IonBonding it. Said it's a low temperature process that doesn't harm the material, and they say it's as slick as it gets. I'd hit em' up and see what you can find. I wish I could recall who it was that does it for em' :/

 

[Clownbuster]

Thanks for all the information. Great conversation.

 

[awp762]

Bench Rite bolt lube (brownells) worked for me when my cerakoted Pierce actions were new. Now that they have more than 1000 rnds each, i just use a very small amount of bolt grease on the lugs & the action is dry. Bolts run super smooth now.