I am looking to build a 7mm PRC or .300WM. I've got the stock and other parts chosen, and I'd like some advice on which action on the two. What say those of you that have more knowledge than I do.
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Stiller vs Surgeon
- Thread starter Watch_this71
- Start date
15 years ago it would be a good question. Unless you already own the actions pick something different. Zermat, impact, lone peak. Being able to order a prefit and not need a gunsmith is a huge benefit.
For the cost of a surgeon, I would buy an impact. I have 3, a 737 and two 787s, by far my favorite action so far. I also have the original Bighorn sporter, surgeon 1086, APR G2, Terminus Zeus QC, and a Kelbly Atlas.
I have owned both stiller and surgeon, and currently own a list of other custom actions. I wouldn’t use either the stiller or surgeon. If your building a hunting rifle and looking to keep it lighter I would use a kelbly nanook, if your doing a target rifle I would use a lone peak fuzion
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Don't own either but hear they're great. So was Surgeon 15 years ago, So was Bighorn 10 years ago, Defiance, was THE Action 5 years ago, sold to dubious fellow. Barnard in NZ was THE action till? Look at Kelbly's, it ain't going nowhere in your lifetime. Customer service and stability. My Smith doesn't need the action to do shouldered barrels for any of mine. Kelbly's doesn't need the action either.
As everyone else said, neither. I personally went with a Lone Peak Fuzion for my most recent build. It ships out today actually. I chose a LP over an Impact just due to a very slight margin of people saying they prefer the bolt lift/manipulation of the LP. But either one would be a solid choice.
One in every thread...
I'll be honest, I picked Surgeon and Stiller because I know (or knew apparently) how good they are. That being said, I'll take a look at Lone Peak and Impact.
I was planning on having Altus build it for me, any objections to that?
there's gotta be one ha it's the Hide
Altus is good people. as are many many others
I have a stiller, I like my Tikka's better. I like my impact even more and that would be my choice 
My God I didn't even know these two were still in business and thought I hit the back button way too many times on the browser.
Altus does good stuff. If anything just ask what they recommend for an action and do that since they carry (though inventory may vary) Impact, Lone Peak, Defiance, Kelbly, Terminus, Zermatt, Falkor, Curtis, and Surgeon. Really the only ones they don't carry are BAT and ARC.
Altus does great work, they have built 3 rifles for me. A terminus, impact and had them true a remmy 700 then spin up a bartlein barrel for it. All 3 are tack drivers
My last two rifles were Altus builds. They would be my go-to (and they're a great bunch of guys). Impact in a Foundation (wanted one for a long time), and a Vudoo in a Matrix. I've bought a bunch of barrels from them too.
The only hiccup was the barrel on the Foundation was bored out with one or two thou too much headspace; just enough to allow a no-go gage to go. They sent me a label while I was on the phone with them. They turned it around very fast and sent it back perfect, which is what you are buying. I'm moving to Dasher when these barrels burn out, and I will buy from Altus.
The Vudoo is...a Vudoo. Easy button for .22 precision.
Their shooting facility is also very nice (keeps getting nicer), and the matches are a hell of a lot of fun. It's not too far out of the way from where I go in FL, so I always check what they have going on when I'll be in The Pan Handle.
They do everything right. Their staff is lots of...
The only hiccup was the barrel on the Foundation was bored out with one or two thou too much headspace; just enough to allow a no-go gage to go. They sent me a label while I was on the phone with them. They turned it around very fast and sent it back perfect, which is what you are buying. I'm moving to Dasher when these barrels burn out, and I will buy from Altus.
The Vudoo is...a Vudoo. Easy button for .22 precision.
Their shooting facility is also very nice (keeps getting nicer), and the matches are a hell of a lot of fun. It's not too far out of the way from where I go in FL, so I always check what they have going on when I'll be in The Pan Handle.
They do everything right. Their staff is lots of...
My apologies for the issue with the 308 closing on a no-go. I chamber 308s to +.001 - +.002 headspace because FGMM ammo is REALLY close to zero headspace and can cause snug close problems. But there is a fine margin and if you add cerakote thickness and other miniscule thicknesses it adds up.......not to mention the manufacturing tolerance variations in the gages from different manufacturers.My last two rifles were Altus builds. They would be my go-to (and they're a great bunch of guys). Impact in a Foundation (wanted one for a long time), and a Vudoo in a Matrix. I've bought a bunch of barrels from them too.
The only hiccup was the barrel on the Foundation was bored out with one or two thou too much headspace; just enough to allow a no-go gage to go. They sent me a label while I was on the phone with them. They turned it around very fast and sent it back perfect, which is what you are buying. I'm moving to Dasher when these barrels burn out, and I will buy from Altus.
The Vudoo is...a Vudoo. Easy button for .22 precision.
Their shooting facility is also very nice (keeps getting nicer), and the matches are a hell of a lot of fun. It's not too far out of the way from where I go in FL, so I always check what they have going on when I'll be in The Pan Handle.
They do everything right. Their staff is lots of...
I look forward to building you a dasher when the time comes.
Ern
My Tacops was built on a surgeon platform. I trust Mike’s recommendation.
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I would agree with you. I have a soft spot for Stiller, and never regretted an Stiller action, but that might be my sniper rifle bias. Surgeon I really do not have experience, but they are part of the same company as McMillan, and, well, they make some awesome military grade actions. Our customers who buy Cadex chassis speak the world of Impact, and others, and we are exploring some FBI rifles with Impact.
I do not think you can make a bad decision. Have you chosen a chassis?
They don't make a long action (YET), so this isn't a recommendation... I'm just pointing out that technology has come a long way since the year 2000... And sharing my "budget custom" build experience...
I bought a $650 (on sale) Aero Solus action, then stuck a $1,200 custom ordered Proof prefit on it, and it puts down 0.3 MOA 5-shot groups. I have about as much in both the action and the custom built prefit barrel, as one would have buying just the Stiller or Surgeon action alone. Cost these days isn't always indicative of quality thanks to automated precision production CNC tools. Most times you still get what you pay for (like in optics), but sometimes you find a gem. Did it take a good bit of cycling to really break-in and get super slick like some of the higher-priced actions? Sure, but now that it is, it's running as smooth as butter, and I have zero complaints with it, and am actually quite impressed for what I have invested in it. So much so, that I've actually bought 3 more of them since.
Most all custom actions will do exactly what you want with a good barrel, chassis, trigger, and optic. You just have to decide on what features you want, and which one offers the most prefit barrel options readily available, and let that determine your choice.
I bought a $650 (on sale) Aero Solus action, then stuck a $1,200 custom ordered Proof prefit on it, and it puts down 0.3 MOA 5-shot groups. I have about as much in both the action and the custom built prefit barrel, as one would have buying just the Stiller or Surgeon action alone. Cost these days isn't always indicative of quality thanks to automated precision production CNC tools. Most times you still get what you pay for (like in optics), but sometimes you find a gem. Did it take a good bit of cycling to really break-in and get super slick like some of the higher-priced actions? Sure, but now that it is, it's running as smooth as butter, and I have zero complaints with it, and am actually quite impressed for what I have invested in it. So much so, that I've actually bought 3 more of them since.
Most all custom actions will do exactly what you want with a good barrel, chassis, trigger, and optic. You just have to decide on what features you want, and which one offers the most prefit barrel options readily available, and let that determine your choice.
He forgot BAT in that list...
BAT is probably more relevant than ever.
They've always been strong in BR and (I think) F-Class, but they are now coming out with some very intriguing options for field oriented disciplines.
Actions have come a long ways since Surgeon and Stiller were prevalent.
Lots of great options out today. It may behoove you to learn of the other options on the market now.
I read a while ago surgeon won’t sell you an action anymore.
www.snipershide.com
Surgeon actions
I have been a loyal long time customer of Surgeon.. Just a heads up to the community. Surgeon is no longer selling actions to the public again. Sad to see them go!
www.snipershide.com
In the year 2024 there is absolutely no reason to buy an action that does not allow prefit barrels. I take it a step further and if proof does not offer prefit barrels for that action I’m not interested. Not saying I always use proof but to me it’s nice to be able to order a barrel and have it shipped to my house in around a week.
I had a surgeon back in the day and it was an awesome rifle but I certainly wouldn’t buy one today. I had a bighorn tl2, and a sako TRG22 and preferred both of those over the surgeon.
I currently own Zermatt, Kelbly, and Lone Peak and have owned ARC, Tikka, and have played with terminus, impact, defiance . I would take any of these over the Surgeon.
I had a surgeon back in the day and it was an awesome rifle but I certainly wouldn’t buy one today. I had a bighorn tl2, and a sako TRG22 and preferred both of those over the surgeon.
I currently own Zermatt, Kelbly, and Lone Peak and have owned ARC, Tikka, and have played with terminus, impact, defiance . I would take any of these over the Surgeon.
Other than prefit barrels (which I'm not totally on board with yet) what's different from Surgeon or Stiller?
Again welcome to yesteryear. You are one of the very few who are "not on board" with prefits and if you shoot enough or want one action and swapping barrels/calibers then you should be as they are a great advantage to the shooter in saving time and money. I would never buy an action again that could not take shouldered prefits. I would advise you not to either and also to listen to KThomas and look around at the actions on the market now.
I remember by surgeon was not as smooth and slick as my bighorn or TRG. It was by no means bad and head and tail above a stock Remington.
I guess to turn the question around on you, why would you want a surgeon over the other options available today? I don’t see any benefit to a surgeon vs the multitude of other great options available now.
If it’s strictly for nostalgia that’s one thing. I yearned for a surgeon back in the day before I bought mine and back in the day it was cream of the crop. I just think it had its time and didn’t keep up with the current offerings.
I have no experience with Stiller. Never seen or handled one.
I guess to turn the question around on you, why would you want a surgeon over the other options available today? I don’t see any benefit to a surgeon vs the multitude of other great options available now.
If it’s strictly for nostalgia that’s one thing. I yearned for a surgeon back in the day before I bought mine and back in the day it was cream of the crop. I just think it had its time and didn’t keep up with the current offerings.
I have no experience with Stiller. Never seen or handled one.
I don't think Surgeons are bad actions, if someone wants one, by all means.
Most of these actions are just some rendition of a pushfeed R700. So I'm not going to pretend that an Impact is heads and shoulders better than a Surgeon. It's not.
That said, there are so many options available these days, that I certainly think it's worth asking yourself "why Surgeon" over many of the other actions.
I'm not sure where you can even acquire a new Surgeon action these days if you wanted to get one. If you have a gunsmith that can get one, cool. If not, where do you buy one?
I can buy an LP, Impact, ARC, etc today if I wanted to. I don't think the same can be said about Surgeon actions.
And I've never been impressed with any Stillers I've handled. Machining was always rough, and their features are definitely lacking compared to today's actions.
I think you need to ask what features you want out of an action, and narrow it down from there. It seems very arbitrary to limit yourself to just Surgeon and Stiller.
I own a lone peak, impact, kelbly’s, terminus, zermatt, ks arms, ultimatum, defiance, had a stiller for years, had a surgeon, had a Curtis.
The stiller by far had the worst machining, worse finish, firing pin had drag, and was rougher and not nearly as smooth as the others. I sold and have no interest in another stiller.
Surgeon was good, worked great. It has 8000 rounds on it now (my buddy has it) and it’s well broken in and very smooth but still there is nicer actions today.
Firearms - TAC OPS AND SURGEON 591'S AND BOTTOM MEDALS
Tac Ops and Surgeon are doing a special on the 591 actions and DBM bottom medals with the Tac bolt handle. The normal price structure is around $1,830.00 for the complete set plus S&H. If you purchase from Tac Ops send a check for $1,390.00 plus S&H. and I’ll have Surgeon, drop ship to your FFL...
www.snipershide.com
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