I have used a Forster, Le Wilson and Redding. I adjust the first bullet seating to get desired length. I load 10 rounds. Go back and measure and the lenght is not consistent to ogive. What am I doing wrong????
Struggling to get consistent OAL to ogive
- Thread starter mkelly
- Start date
More information, using an arbor press with LE wilson chamber seater. Using both a Forester COAX and a Redding turret press.
They shoot great for my old butt. But could they shoot better if it was consistent in the measurement?
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Just a guess but your seater probably is setting length off the tip of the bullet which is not very consistent.
I am using a hornady anvil and bullet comparator and a mitutoyo digital calipers. I will get the deviation when I get home tonight.
I am using three different seaters and three different presses and cannot get them to keep consistent. I ordered a new vld stem from le wilson just to try. I have too many options. What is the normal expected deviation from a run of say 20 rounds once the seater is set to length?
I am using an el cheapo Lee Dead Nuts seater with Berger VLDs and all of mine are within .005 cbto.
Provide actual fucking information! We dont even know what you are considering inconsistent!
Do you sort the bullets by base to ogive?
Do you anneal your cases?
Are your cases trimmed to the same length?
I find that when I do these things I get very consistent seating with either my Forster seating die in my Co Ax or even better with my LE Wilson seater in an arbor press. I typically get +/- .0005 variance now days.
Besides the variances one can find in bullet measurements, varying seating pressure along with inconsistent neck tension can affect the seating consistency.
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From the limited info you've provided and from the varying tools you tell us you've used I can only give opinion as to the root cause of your "issue".
One would be variance of neck tension. If neck tension is not uniform bullets will either require more seating pressure or less seating pressure.
Your bullet will be either longer or shorter than the target (sometimes by quite a few thousandths).
Second would be seating bullets into the powder column. Do you hear of feel the powder crunching during bullet seating? If so, how that powder compression varies will cause seating depth variances.
Poor reloading practices. You must take time to reexamine your seating techniques. I say this because I have and still do use all the above tools you mention and all are very capable of doing the job very well. The rest is all up to you.
What do you mean consistency? As in you adjust the Seater 0.010" but that doesn't match up with your finished CBTO measurements? Bullet to bullet consistency issues using the same seater at the same measurement? How much is it varying? Are you using compressed loads? Whats your neck tension?
Dallas is basically Oklahoma.
Made these charts awhile back showing all the variables in bullet measurements and how little they matter whenit comes to seating. Im firmly in the brass resists moving for a bullet camp vs the bullet being the bad apple.
Weaksauce! My Lee does +/-0.0015 or better. I drilled deeper into the stem, put the stem into my drill chuck and used this reamer to make my own ghetto VLD seater.... then polished it with kratex bits
it's the cat's meow now. 
I have not sorted bullets.
I do anneal after every use
Trimmed to the same length
I have tried both bushing neck sizing and expand mandrel
From what I can remember I was getting +/- .0015 variances, exuse my not remembering exactly.
.0015 variance from one round to the next is plenty good for the majority of shooters. Berger factory ammo is that level of consistency, as are many others like Black Hills.
+/-.0015 (.003 total) is not an issue. Thats about as consistent as it gets without taking 10x as much time to individually check every single one and adjust accordingly. Maybe you can improve but youre gonna want to look very very closely into each little step you make and how it effects what you do further down the line. I wouldnt bother.
Im settled, it just took unitl the 21st post to get any information of substance.
I'd suggest sticking to using an expanding mandrel so that the inside diameter is as consistent as possible (especially if you're not neck turning). And you might try sorting just a few bullets and seating them to see what kind of variance you then wind up with. Then decide if such sorting should be added to your routine or not. Some lots of bullets (depending on the brand quality) can have significant differences in the base to ogive distance, which can easily affect the seating by the amount you're getting.
0.0015” (1.5 thousands of an inch) is a pretty good result IMHO. Just go measure a few and make sure it is not 15 thou, that would be a big problem.
Btw: My LE Wilson seater does similarly, and i measure each case. I am happy with 1.5 thou of total variation. Shoots 0.3” groups at a 100 (with a 15 thou jump).
An arbor press does not provide a lot of leverage, so tap it hard 3 or 4 times. [The benefit of the LE Wilson hand die is that it seats very straight. Seating depth consistency via an arbor press can be a problem if neck tension or lubrication varies, or if seating technique is a little off. All fixable issues though.]
The Hornady insert combined with operator error can also cause some inaccurate measurement, at least 1-1.5 thou, for example if the case is held a little skew, or the bullet is not touching properly on all sides of the insert (rotate it and see if the measurement goes down). Fun experiment: Measure 10 cases, write the numbers down on a piece of paper, turn the paper over, measure the same loaded rounds a second time, write it down on a new blank piece of paper, but don’t cheat by looking at the prior measurements. Now compare the two pages. Results will be a little different. If your measurement technique needs work, it could be off by a lot.
What annealing method do you use? The AMP annealer discolors the necks, and leaves a reddish residue inside the necks, which is sticky and can cause variable seating force. Brush the necks out with a nylon brush post annealing, around 4x is sufficient, then use a good dry lube like Imperial. [Gas flame annealing does not seem to have this problem.]
I have seen one particular Hornady batch that had 30 plus thou of difference in base to ogive (for bullets from the same box/batch). Two distinct groups that varied less than two thou, as if the bullets were made on two production lines. Not common but it can happen. Such bad batches you really have to get rid off, or sort if you have the patience...
Btw: My LE Wilson seater does similarly, and i measure each case. I am happy with 1.5 thou of total variation. Shoots 0.3” groups at a 100 (with a 15 thou jump).
An arbor press does not provide a lot of leverage, so tap it hard 3 or 4 times. [The benefit of the LE Wilson hand die is that it seats very straight. Seating depth consistency via an arbor press can be a problem if neck tension or lubrication varies, or if seating technique is a little off. All fixable issues though.]
The Hornady insert combined with operator error can also cause some inaccurate measurement, at least 1-1.5 thou, for example if the case is held a little skew, or the bullet is not touching properly on all sides of the insert (rotate it and see if the measurement goes down). Fun experiment: Measure 10 cases, write the numbers down on a piece of paper, turn the paper over, measure the same loaded rounds a second time, write it down on a new blank piece of paper, but don’t cheat by looking at the prior measurements. Now compare the two pages. Results will be a little different. If your measurement technique needs work, it could be off by a lot.
What annealing method do you use? The AMP annealer discolors the necks, and leaves a reddish residue inside the necks, which is sticky and can cause variable seating force. Brush the necks out with a nylon brush post annealing, around 4x is sufficient, then use a good dry lube like Imperial. [Gas flame annealing does not seem to have this problem.]
I have seen one particular Hornady batch that had 30 plus thou of difference in base to ogive (for bullets from the same box/batch). Two distinct groups that varied less than two thou, as if the bullets were made on two production lines. Not common but it can happen. Such bad batches you really have to get rid off, or sort if you have the patience...
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I am using an Annie annealer. I will start afterward.
I have been using redding imperial dry neck lube.
