Gunsmithing Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

[jugi16]

Anyone have any tips on removing the hard caked on carbon and gun powder fron your muzzle brake vents with out ruining the finish?

I've tried soaking it in KG carbon remover over night. Tried Wipe out, but nothing seems to work that well.

Thanks

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

boiling water then dip it in cold water quickly

 

[excaliber]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Thats one reason I like stainless steel muzzlebrakes as when they get carboned up, I just stick them in the blasting cabinet. Works perfect. But since you have a brake with a certain finish on it, the cabinet would remove it too. Have you tried a sonic cleaner?

 

[Thud]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Get a sonic cleaner.

 

[jugi16]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Tried a sonic cleaner doesn't work.....

 

[excaliber]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

What kind of brake do you have?

 

[RADcustom]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Slip 2000 used to make some stuff called carbon cutter. It came in a pickle jar like bottle. It was a two part solution and smelled like oranges. It worked great.

I'm pretty sure this is the stuff.

http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_CTC.php

Drop it in, let it soak, take it out and wipe it off.

This looks like it might be a stronger version.

http://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_carbon_killer.php

 

[LRI]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Try this:

Hot plate.
Pot
Antifreeze


Get the antifreeze smoking hot. Stick your part in it.


Not sure why it works, but this is a very "old school" trick for restoring RC airplane engines to like new condition. It'll cook all the caked on varnish/carbon from methanol, nitromethane, and the oil from the fuel.

It works crazy good.

Another example: Ever look at a car engine with a cracked head/block that blows coolant out the exhaust? When you tear the engine down that cylinder will be squeaky clean, including the exhaust valve which is typically the nastiest part of an engine.

Cheap no contact fix that won't harm finishes.


Good luck.

C.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon


The coolant solution is interesting.

Chad, could you do that to an AR bolt without changing the hardness? Seems like a quick, effective method of carbon removal.
Also, GM either makes, or used to make, a Top Engine Cleaner for carbon removal. I use it for bores infrequently, but I can't tell if it works since I can't see the throat, but it seems to.

OP, beat on the brake with a hammer, or squeeze it in a vice until the shape changes. Or drop it in boiling water just out of a deep freeze. Or ignore it and keep shooting the rifle, or tumble it in stainless media (you'll create the newest in tactical rifle fashion and all the cool kids will have to have a stainless brake and a painted barrel), or when the carbon builds up sufficiently to slough off fleaks will blast off towards unwelcome bystanders, and friends on the firing line at a match like so much shrapnel from a mini-dirty bomb. Either of these methods are effective in varying degrees of completeness.

 

[Thud]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Use the cleaner with citronox cleans mine as new

 

[LRI]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Ever run a few magazines through a full auto M-4?

I promise after a couple magazines the bolt carrier group is going to be substantially hotter than any pot of boiling antifreeze.

Think about it. It's a direct gas operating system. The same gasses that make suppressors glow like car cigarette lighters is going directly to the bolt carrier system. The gas tubes/barrels fail long before the bolt ever does.

I think your pretty safe.

C.

 

[bohem]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The coolant solution is interesting.

Chad, could you do that to an AR bolt without changing the hardness?

</div></div>

At ambient pressures (ones which the human body can live in) the boiling point of antifreeze is well under the critical point of bolt carrier steel, and for most high-alloy aluminums it won't harm their solution treat in short stints either.

Chad's right based on his rationalization but if you're looking for a "hard numbers" approach

Look up the BP of Ethylene Glycol in the CRC and the critical temp for 1018 carbon steel (carrier) and Carpenter P20 (bolt head steel) from any of several sources.

You'll find that the BP of EG is hundreds of degrees lower than the critical temp.

 

[stangfish]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Great explanation Bohem. BTW, not being argumentative but to carry you data just a step further. Is a bolt carrier really made out of 1018? With .18% percent carbon it would be tough to harden or make durrable right? I was also under the impression that mil spec for a BC was 8620.

Thanks

 

[bohem]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

I was just discussing this via PM.

I'm not 100% certain that it is 1018, but the bolt carrier (not the bolt) really doesn't carry a lot of loads like a bolt head does. It needs to have a relatively high surface hardness, which can easily be accomplished via case hardening and the 1 that I did do some machining on showed a tendency to be a super soft core. The surface hardness, when I cut it with carbide, was high, it behaved a lot like something in the 45+ Rc range (you know that optical gradient effect that makes a piece of hardened steel throw a faint rainbow when conditions are right?) but the core of the relatively thin carrier section was dead soft. It peeled more than machined.

The carriers are a relatively low stress item everywhere that the bolt head doesn't touch it and where the bolt head and cam ride in there it's got a lot of cross section.

The bolt heads are a different alloy for certain, when I was working that project which required me to do some machining on a carrier I also had an alloy analysis done on several different bolt heads. The cheap ones were 8620 and there were some high dollar ones from custom type places that were P20 as well as a third alloy that's a little more uncommon in the firearms industry.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon


mmmmhuh. Valid observation, Chad. Thanks.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

I've always used a pyrex bread pan filled with mineral spirits in a 2.5L ultrasonic with enough water to match the level of the solvent. Fire up the heater until it's all nice and toasty and drop in the parts. It's not very remarkable at first, but once you fire up the US, it's like watching smoke billowing from a car fire.

I'm interested in the anit-freeze thing. Just a guess, but being a chemist, I'd think it is the additives in the antifreeze that do the cleaning. Ethylene glycol isn't very remarkable in it's solvent abilities--it's mainly added because it is equimiscible with water and raises the boiling point, but the metal protection and corrosion inhibitors are probably (don't know since they're trade secrets) chelating agents like EDTA or similar and that does a number on baked-on goo. I might try it in my ultrasonic.

 

[jugi16]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Chad that is genius. Tried it and it worked like a charm. Thanks!

 

[Ring]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

also, 50/50 vinegar, peroxide in the sonic cleaner will strip it to bear metal..

this will even eat the lead out of a 22lr can

 

[bohem]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also, 50/50 vinegar, peroxide in the sonic cleaner will strip it to bear metal..

this will even eat the lead out of a 22lr can </div></div>

Be careful when handling this solution after use though, it creates a highly toxic solution that is considered Hazmat and can be absorbed through the skin.

It will also eat chrome moly over time and AL relatively quickly.

I'm sure Gene Pool can provide more detail on what the extents of it are, but I think it's creating Lead Acetate solution.

 

[LRI]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: polarshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad that is genius. Tried it and it worked like a charm. Thanks! </div></div>


Sweet, glad to be able to help.

C.

 

[sawman556]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">also, 50/50 vinegar, peroxide in the sonic cleaner will strip it to bear metal..

this will even eat the lead out of a 22lr can </div></div>

This works great. However, I would only use it on stainless steel. The sonic cleaner may help but a mason jar will do the trick.

I also find Kroil/Hoppes #9 50/50 works really good at getting under shit.

 

[Idaho338Norma]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

I use simple green to remove carbon on engine parts at work, would imagine it would work equally well for this. And its dirt cheap

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Stubborn muzzle brake carbon

Anyone have any tips on removing the hard caked on carbon and gun powder fron your muzzle brake vents with out ruining the finish?

I've tried soaking it in KG carbon remover over night. Tried Wipe out, but nothing seems to work that well.


I was reading a post on another board, about cleaning rifle barrels. Some guys are saying that they dont clean there barrels except after several hundred rounds. That same carbon thats in the muzzle brake is inside that barrel, and it will hurt the accuracy of your rig. Carbon is a real bitch to get out as we have all just learned. Why in the world some fellas dont keep there high dallor rigs clean is beyond me.
Chad is one smart fella. I will have to try his trick myself. I wish i had half chads knoweledge. Lee