subsonic .22lr for long range

[hollowpoint]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shorter, handier, lighter rifle...

I understand that you're not going to suppress it, anytime soon anyway, but a 16.5" barrel is plenty for a 22lr, if you're going to do any long range with it, you'll be running subsonic anyway, so there's really just no point in a longer barrel.

before anyone asks, the reason for subsonics, in long range 22lr, is that bullets destablize when they pass through the transonic barrier, if they start subsonic, they never transition, so the results downrange tend to be more consistent </div></div>

force multiplier posted this in another topic and i feel its worthy of its own thread. anyone else use subsonic .22 for long range. if so any ammo group particularly well?

 

[Powder_Burns]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

CCI Std Vel runs 1050 at the muzzle, groups pretty well. Wolf Match groups slightly better, muzzle velocities are about the same. Lately I've been using CB's, they are like 20gr and only fly about 730 fps. They fall real fast, so mortar trajectories are in order.

 

[VYD]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

There is a reason .22 Match loads are all subsonic...

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

I have been considering switching to a bulk subsonic for my practice, but I haven't found anything that's actually as cheap as Blazer, Fed bulk, Win 555's, etc in the sub-sonic flavor and actually shots decent. Remington SSSS (super-sucky-sub-sonic) was not impressive in any way and I haven't got my hands on anything else yet. Win Dynapoint looks interesting (1150 fps iirc), but for $30 a brick, (as opposed to $20/brick for Win 555 or Fed bulk) can't say that I really need whatever edge they may provide for my practice.

I'm interested to see what you find.

I'm now on the hunt for the bulk ammo that my rifle likes best. Gonna try Fed bulk pack, Win 555, and Win Xpert tomorrow if time permits.

Keep us posted on your findings.

-The Kid.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

When it comes to 22 ammo you have to ask yourself what is good enough, only you can answer that question. If you are concerned about accuracy then you will not find what you seek in any bulk pack. I have seen some great groups printed from a bulk pack or two but consistency was horrible. The high vel bulk pack stuff can settle down again past 100yds but all I have seen tends to be very erratic. Generally speaking the more you pay the better it gets...to a point. Most of the guys that I know are shooting Federal 922A, don't be fooled though, this stuff ain't Federal ammo. It comes right off the RWS R50 line. Wolf is pretty good stuff, but the higher end SK and Lapua tends to be a bit better and as well it should, it all comes from the same place with the same headstamp and lube. It is all made by Lapua. What does great at 50yds will not always be great at 250yds and vice versa. I have seen this anomoly too many times to count. If you are planning to use ammo at 250yds test it at 250yds, not 50yds and assume that is any indication of how it performs at longer distance.
If you are serious about accuarcy then buy serious ammo. Bulk packs are made for plinking. If you aren't shooting in competition then the plinking stuff is fine, if you are then the bulk stuff will leave you at the bottom of the pack. I see it every month from spring to autumn.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

your standard / match velocity ammos are technically sub sonic (roughly under 1080 pfs) depending on air temp and other environmentals.

probably the best stuff that groups well across many models and makes of rifles is Wolf MT + Extra, along with their SK counterparts.

then there are your REALLY quite stuff:
CCI CB Long VS. Rem. CBee 22 - Quiet ammo showdown

and aguila SSS 60 gr. ammo.

i've used remington subsonics and got super groups out to about 75 yards, then they went to crap (at least through my setup MKII BV and F), at 100 yards. like 4.5" groups or larger.

the science behind it is when most HV ammo falls below super sonic speed (transsonic barrier) it creates a mini sonic boom that upsets the flight of the bullet causing it to destabilize and veer off course. Though the standard / match velocity ammos have more drop, they generally stay on course better than HV ammo.

a few of the best high velocities ammos (at least through my rifles) that seems to handle that transonic barrier the best is Blazer, Fed. champion (blue box) and fed gold medal (red box).

aguila golden eagle seemed to be a good sub sonic round for the price, i had a couple of bad bricks and no customer support from aguila / centurion, so now i switched to CCI std. vel. as an affordable yet consistant ammo.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

Top, any experience with the Win Dynapoint in 22 LR? (Forgive me if I've asked this before...) It is a 40 grain hollowpoint and should stay sub-sonic from most barrels, I reckon. Thought about trying it for practice ammo...if I could ever find any!

 

[Wino]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

In my CZ 452 I use SK subsonic hollow point, they group very well.
My usual training is from 50 to 350 y

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

Dynapoints are not sub sonic from any barrel. Although you did not ask me I have extensive experience with them. They are great for Bullseye competition as they feed very well through most pistols and they are copper washed. They are great for hunting and general plinking and not much else. I know where there are about ten boxes of them, but they aren't for sale

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HathcockWannebe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Top, any experience with the Win Dynapoint in 22 LR? </div></div>

other than just a magazine or two donated to me at the range, nope. i've tested dynapoints in 22mag (i know apples and oranges) wasn't impressed with it there and figured if the same "quality" was transferred to .22lr, it worth it in .22lr.

i've finally put in stone in my brain to use std vel or "sub sonic" stuff and stopped searching for a HV round through rifles, other than blazer, as it works well. it's sort of the Wolf ammo of the HV ammos. with all the big interest in rimfires over the last few years, it seems manufacturers are spitting out all types of HV stuff and you go nuts trying to keep up. alot of this stuff is just old ammo with a new name (i suspect dynapoints are the old winchester wildcat ammo).

through much of having a couple hundred rounds of this and that laying around, running different dopes for each ammo for each rifle, it just is better in the long run to find a decent shooting "sub sonic" ammo through the rifles and run with it. it's a little more money, but the payoff is greater in the end as the consistancy shows up in the 75+ yard shooting.

i do use fed bulk pack through my pistols, as it's cheap and goes quick with good groups at 10 through 15 yards - but that's semi pistol at close range, double tap drills and for making dust. i'd maybe use the same stuff through a 10/22 or ar22 type of rifle for the same type of rapid fire fun, but that's about it.

if hornady ever comes out with an ammo (HV or SV / SS), i'm pretty much much done with HV ammos through a rifle for use in any serious shooting.

 

[isaaccarlson]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

I use CCI Standard Velocity. It is the best ammo I have found for my rifle. It will hold MOA to at least 300 yards and does not get blown about by the wind as much as other ammo.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

Thanks for the info, armorpl8 and TP! With an advertised MV of 1150, I thought perhaps they would actually be SS since manufacturers' stated MV's are frequently...optimistic.

I am looking for the best-shooting of the cheap stuff for plinking. Will be sure to include Blazer in my testing!

I have pretty much settled on CCI SV (blue box) as my "serious practice" ammo, Wolf MT for any half-way serious informal matches, and CCI Velocitors for hunting (total Velocitor fanboy here!). My rifle is very predictable in the way it changes POI when switching between different loads, so I feel very comfortable switching loads to suit the scenario.

SS is definitely far superior and worth the price when looking for a load to fit that "serious practice" requirement or in competition. If my budget allowed, I'd shooting nothing but Wolf MT of ME, but in real life, I shoot the best that I can afford for my everyday plinking and then pull out the better stuff when it matters.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

just to add, the year before last i did what you are going to attempt to do, using Wolf Extra / mt as the serious ammo, CCi std vel for "practice" and blazers for plinking, and fed bulk hollowpoints for hunting. all i can say is it's a pain in the butt, and there is lots of different dopes to keep track of, especially when going from the HV to the standard or sub sonic velocity.

don't get me wrong - it works, but as long as you keep good track of what your using and what adjustments you have to make to go from one to the other ammo. in the end it just got to complicated and frustrating for me, and having way to many brand of ammo floating around, but i wish you well.

 

[ida83704]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

I've pushed Eley Yellow box out to 440 yards and it is subsonic.


CCI Standard velocity I've pushed out to 410 yards or so.

CCI Standard Velocity is a good value for subsonic ammo.

 

[HathcockProtege]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

TP: it is a bit of a pain to remember that many different sets of dope, but...I zero with my hunting ammo and have that dope memorized since it's the only one that really matters to know in a hurry. I then write down the rest relative to that hunting zero. For instance:

+0.75/1 MOA Left from "Velocitor zero" = Fed bulk 50 yard zero...

+4MOA = Velocitor 100 yard

+5.5 = Fed bulk 100 yard...

+6MOA = Wolf MT 50 yard zero/rough 125 Velocitor

+12MOA = 100 yard Wolf MT zero/15 yard CCI CB zero

...

+20.25 MOA = Fed bulk 200 yard...

...etc, etc.

See? Not that complicated. Haha. I guess .22 LR has always been about versatility for me, so I relish the ability to tailor my ammo to the task at hand with the relative ease of this system.

-The Kid.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

yeah that's kinda how i was doing it, then switch to the different ammo data page. the biggest thing for me was getting the barrel "seasoned" if you will for the ammo change. in other words, when switching from wolf to the bulk, my first and second (and sometimes more) shots where way off until the barrel "aaccepted" the new bullet, then visca versa. i don't know if you've had that problem.

the summer wasn't bad, just when hunting season and target season overlapped did it become more incovienant than complicated.

the thing that's tuff too is keeping a good inventory of all three or four ammos.

again i just stick with the CCI SV as it's cheap enough to plink with, accurate enough for informal matches, and i do the paco tool hollowpoint thing to them for hunting so i can keep aand inventory of 1 ammo for different functions.

i wish i could afford to use the wolf in such a manner, i do sacrifice some accuraccy for convienance.

 

[arrowslinger#1]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

CCI standard vel. is the only thing I can get to shoot decent anymore - without buying match ammo, it's almost as cheap to shoot my 223

 

[bp78]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CCI Standard Velocity is a good value for subsonic ammo.</div></div>

CCI Standard Velocity grouped almost as well as SK Standard Plus out of my CZ452 and better than many more expensive match loads. I tested about 20 loads recently and settled on CCI Standard.

Since suppressing that 452 now, it's become apparent somewhere around 1 in 15 of those CCI Standard Velocity rounds goes supersonic with the distinct crack which is disappointing. Running 20 rounds each through the chrono this week I saw that the 100rd plastic boxed CCI Standard Velocity turned in a 20fps higher average than 20 of the CCI Standard Velocity rounds boxed 50rds in cardboard. I'm sure that's just a difference in LOTs but I'd hope and suspect they'd do better if they were all subsonic.

CCI Just announce a new load that looks really interesting too:
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/detail.aspx?use=1&loadNo=960
CCI Quiet-22
22LR 40gr LRN @ 710fps.
Probably too slow for anything past 100y but should be interesting suppressed.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

that's probably a new name for their CB longs.

CCI CB Long VS. Rem. CBee 22 - Quiet ammo showdown

 

[isaaccarlson]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

No, CB Longs are only 29 grains. These are a full 40 grains so they will fit the chamber/rifling the same way as SV. They will be much more accurate then CB Long.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: subsonic .22lr for long range

damn, i missed that, me sleepy, time for beddie bye.

long day of goose hunting, whooped my butt.

for 40gr that will be a must try ammo.