Rifle Scopes Suggestions for lightweight FFP MRAD scope; PA GLx

[K2e2vin]

• What is the platform for the scope? Semi-Auto S&W M&P10 w/ 16" Faxon barrel
• What cartridge are you shooting? 168gr and 175gr .308win
• What is your intended use for the scope? Majority target/steel; combo. Lightweight build.
• What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? Mainly daylight, some lowlight
• What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 100-700 yds
• Are there any specific specifications you would like? FFP, MIL, <25oz, Illuminated reticle
• What is the price range you can afford? <$1500

I'm looking for a lightweight upgrade from the Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x I had on my M&P10 (already decided to go with Aero Precision mount to replace the ADM). It did fine at 500yds but I kind of want a finer reticle and did not really like/need the circle. I tried out my buddy's Arken SH4 but that thing noticeably heavier (the illumination wasn't that great either); a lot of other scopes I looked at were usually heavier or didn't have illumination. Initially I was looking at the Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22 but after reading more(limited) reviews and such, I've kind of been deterred. The next best option I found is Primary Arm's GLX 4-16x50ffp that just came out with their Athena reticle (basically a mil tree with a chevron). It's only slightly heavier at 23.5oz vs LHT's 21.7oz. I can't really find any good comparisons on the glass though. I've never looked through any Primary Arms optics besides a 1x prism sight. Another option I found was the the Trijicon Tenmile 3-18x44 but I can't find much info on that particular scope either. Any other suggestions or can anyone comment on the quality of the GLx glass vs LHT or even the Arken? TIA

 

[KnowNothing256]

Why deterred on the Vortex?

 

[K2e2vin]

Why deterred on the Vortex?

Just from comments about people having issues with their lighter scopes and for the LHT in general, the drop/lost-zero "scandal", push-button illum, and turrets. I'm still open to the LHT 4.5-22, but still waiting for more feedback. For the price and what (little) I've heard so far about the LHT 4.5, I'd rather take a risk with a cheaper optic (the GLx is half the price at $750 with similar features and weight) or spend it on something with a more known reputation. The weight aspect is what's kind of constricting my choices right now.

 

[owtlaw]

I have a hand full of the LHT 4.5-22 FFP optics on rifles that I loan out to clients. The only one that I have sent back is one that a client fell off of a horse while wearing durring an elk hunt. Considering that they both landed on a large rock and the client went to the ER with a broken collarbone, I'm willing to overlook the scope damage. LOL That said, the LHT's have been solid for us. These loaner rifles get beat to death. I would have no reservations using one of them on your build.

 

[JDB55]

Just from comments about people having issues with their lighter scopes and for the LHT in general, the drop/lost-zero "scandal", push-button illum, and turrets. I'm still open to the LHT 4.5-22, but still waiting for more feedback. For the price and what (little) I've heard so far about the LHT 4.5, I'd rather take a risk with a cheaper optic (the GLx is half the price at $750 with similar features and weight) or spend it on something with a more known reputation. The weight aspect is what's kind of constricting my choices right now.

If you want the scope, get it, it's fantastic. Just check your zero the next time you throw it on the ground lol

 

[gr8fuldoug]

Sightron S-TAC FFP 3-16x42 Zero Stop - Mil-Hash-2 #26017

The S-TAC 3-16x42 FFP employs an illuminated Mil-Hash reticle for intermediate range applications where a smaller optic is needed. The MH-2 reticle has an illuminated crosshair with hash marks in 1/2 mil increments. The FFP model also utilizes an easy to set Zero-stop mechanism with.1 Mil clicks for tactical applications. The scope offers 20.4 MRAD of elevations adjustments for even the longest shots. A unique flip-up lever is built into the power ring for easy adjustments of cold days.

Magnification	3-16x
Objective Lens Diameter	42mm
Eye Relief	3.6 - 4.1 inches
Field of View	29.2 - 6.1ft @100 yds
Tube Size	30mm
Turret Style	Tactical (Resettable)
Zero Stop	Yes
Click Value	.1 MRAD
Minutes Per Revolution	5 MRAD
Max Elevation Adjustment	20.4 MRAD
Max Windage Adjustment	20.4 MRAD
Parallax Setting	10 yards to Infinity
Focus Type	Side Focus
Reticle Type	MH-2
Focal Plane	First
Illumination	Yes
Finish	Matte Black
Waterproof	Yes - IPX 7 rated
Anti-Reflection Tech	Exclusive Zact-7 Revcoat® Multi-coating
Fog Proof	Yes
Length	13.3 inches
Weight	24.8 oz
Sunshade	Not included
Item Number	26017
UPC Code	793139-260178
Model Name	S-TAC3-16X42FFPZSIRMH-2
Instruction Manual (PDF)	DOWNLOAD
Reticle Instructions (PDF)	DOWNLOAD

 

[CrooksNbigBeaver]

• What is the platform for the scope? Semi-Auto S&W M&P10 w/ 16" Faxon barrel
• What cartridge are you shooting? 168gr and 175gr .308win
• What is your intended use for the scope? Majority target/steel; combo. Lightweight build.
• What type of conditions will you typically shoot in? Mainly daylight, some lowlight
• What are the typical distances you intend to shoot? 100-700 yds
• Are there any specific specifications you would like? FFP, MIL, <25oz, Illuminated reticle
• What is the price range you can afford? <$1500

I'm looking for a lightweight upgrade from the Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x I had on my M&P10 (already decided to go with Aero Precision mount to replace the ADM). It did fine at 500yds but I kind of want a finer reticle and did not really like/need the circle. I tried out my buddy's Arken SH4 but that thing noticeably heavier (the illumination wasn't that great either); a lot of other scopes I looked at were usually heavier or didn't have illumination. Initially I was looking at the Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22 but after reading more(limited) reviews and such, I've kind of been deterred. The next best option I found is Primary Arm's GLX 4-16x50ffp that just came out with their Athena reticle (basically a mil tree with a chevron). It's only slightly heavier at 23.5oz vs LHT's 21.7oz. I can't really find any good comparisons on the glass though. I've never looked through any Primary Arms optics besides a 1x prism sight. Another option I found was the the Trijicon Tenmile 3-18x44 but I can't find much info on that particular scope either. Any other suggestions or can anyone comment on the quality of the GLx glass vs LHT or even the Arken? TIA

The GLxs are solid optics, ive have / have had almost all of them, and i really like the Athena reticle, but the optical quality is going to be far better on the LHT. Think Razor vs PST G2(though i think GLx is SLIGHTLY better). GLx does also have far superior turrets to the LHT imo.

Just going to have to decide what you value more. Both solid options.

 

[K2e2vin]

I decided to get both! The GLX went on my 16" M&P10(replaced a Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x and Arken SH4 4-16x); not too happy with the glass but I like the reticle. Perfectly fine for that rifle since I don't really go past 500yds with it. I haven't found a FFP LHT locally but plan is to just throw that onto a Savage 110 300wm(until I can find a 300wsm T3x); it may eventually find its eay onto the M&P10 if I decide to invest in higher end glass.

 

[CrooksNbigBeaver]

I decided to get both! The GLX went on my 16" M&P10(replaced a Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x and Arken SH4 4-16x); not too happy with the glass but I like the reticle. Perfectly fine for that rifle since I don't really go past 500yds with it. I haven't found a FFP LHT locally but plan is to just throw that onto a Savage 110 300wm(until I can find a 300wsm T3x); it may eventually find its eay onto the M&P10 if I decide to invest in higher end glass.

I have never played with any Athlon glass. Are you saying the glass on the GLx is worse than the Athlon? Because i like like the reticle and most of the specs on that thing, just hadnt really considered it because I just assumed the glass was subpar.

 

[K2e2vin]

I have never played with any Athlon glass. Are you saying the glass on the GLx is worse than the Athlon? Because i like like the reticle and most of the specs on that thing, just hadnt really considered it because I just assumed the glass was subpar.

Correct. At least on the Helos BTR Gen2 I had; I thought the glass on that was clearer than the GLX glass. I know some of the guys compare the higher-end Athlon lines to the Razors and such though.

 

[CrooksNbigBeaver]

Correct. At least on the Helos BTR Gen2 I had; I thought the glass on that was clearer than the GLX glass. I know some of the guys compare the higher-end Athlon lines to the Razors and such though.

Not that im exactly blown away by the glass on the GLx, but that is a bit surprising to me. Really annoying how large they made that center dot though.

What i really want is for Vortex or PA to release a 2-10x~42 FFP with adj parallax, widest FOV possible, quick 2x reticle, locking elevation, capped windage, at <23oz, throw some Razor / PLx Japanese glass in there, then take my $1300-1600 as fast as i can throw it at them

Or just have NF update the 178 year old 2.5-10 with FFP and a modified tree reticle

 

[st1650]

Not that im exactly blown away by the glass on the GLx, but that is a bit surprising to me. Really annoying how large they made that center dot though.

What i really want is for Vortex or PA to release a 2-10x~42 FFP with adj parallax, widest FOV possible, quick 2x reticle, locking elevation, capped windage, at <23oz, throw some Razor / PLx Japanese glass in there, then take my $1300-1600 as fast as i can throw it at them

Or just have NF update the 178 year old 2.5-10 with FFP and a modified tree reticle

They could even do a 36-38mm objective and still have decent performance. The helos BTR 2-12 Gen 2 is a really good start. Just need to be a wee bit lighter (ideally 20oz) and get some LOW glass.

 

[st1650]

Correct. At least on the Helos BTR Gen2 I had; I thought the glass on that was clearer than the GLX glass. I know some of the guys compare the higher-end Athlon lines to the Razors and such though.

Even my Midas Tac 6-24 can almost keep up with my DMR 2 and really not that far off from my Cronus and Razor Gen 2.

 

[CrooksNbigBeaver]

They could even do a 36-38mm objective and still have decent performance. The helos BTR 2-12 Gen 2 is a really good start. Just need to be a wee bit lighter (ideally 20oz) and get some LOW glass.

Not knowing shit about optical design, i would say the one thing that the GLx definitely does well, is the exit pupil is massive, and i attributed that partly to the 44mm obj. I want a super generous eyebox on an optic that this, as it is definitely going on an AR. Not against a 36mm, but i want to know what im giving up, other than light gathering.

Are we really comparing a Midas to a RG2. Come on now, lets not get too silly.

 

[st1650]

Not knowing shit about optical design, i would say the one thing that the GLx definitely does well, is the exit pupil is massive, and i attributed that partly to the 44mm obj. I want a super generous eyebox on an optic that this, as it is definitely going on an AR. Not against a 36mm, but i want to know what im giving up, other than light gathering.

Are we really comparing a Midas to a RG2. Come on now, lets not get too silly.

I’m not comparing the two. I’m saying they’re closing the gap awfully fast.
And obviously there is more to an optic that just glass clarity but the glass on the Midas is really clear.

 

[CrooksNbigBeaver]

Definitely true that what you can get for 700 today, or 300 for that matter, is absurd compared to 15 years ago.

Good times. Still doesnt seem to be saving me any money....

 

[K2e2vin]

Not that im exactly blown away by the glass on the GLx, but that is a bit surprising to me. Really annoying how large they made that center dot though.

What i really want is for Vortex or PA to release a 2-10x~42 FFP with adj parallax, widest FOV possible, quick 2x reticle, locking elevation, capped windage, at <23oz, throw some Razor / PLx Japanese glass in there, then take my $1300-1600 as fast as i can throw it at them

Or just have NF update the 178 year old 2.5-10 with FFP and a modified tree reticle

If I were to do it again, I would've just got the Helos BTR 4-20x over the GLX 4-16x and just accepted the "weight tax," they're both $750 MSRP. The reticle on the Helos BTR 4-20x is smaller than the 2-12x at 0.1mil. The only other PA optics I've tried are their prisms with etched reticles(astigmatism).

Vortex has an Razor LHT model btw; IIRC the 3-15x42 is like 19oz with locking turrets and capped elevation. I think you can find those models for under $900 used? Most places sell them for $1300. Only problem is it's SFP. The FFP is a 4.5-22x50. Thing is right around 23oz though.

 

[buzby]

I decided to get both! The GLX went on my 16" M&P10(replaced a Athlon Helos BTR 2-12x and Arken SH4 4-16x); not too happy with the glass but I like the reticle. Perfectly fine for that rifle since I don't really go past 500yds with it. I haven't found a FFP LHT locally but plan is to just throw that onto a Savage 110 300wm(until I can find a 300wsm T3x); it may eventually find its eay onto the M&P10 if I decide to invest in higher end glass.

What was the reason to replace the BTR?

 

[K2e2vin]

What was the reason to replace the BTR?

I had the 2-12x: Reticle/dot was too big for longer distance shooting. In hindsight, I could've just went up to their higher power Helos BTR that has a finer dot.