Gunsmithing Suggestions on a .243 build

[Hogshooter]

I want to have a LTR style .243 or .243AI built. I picked up a Rem SPS sporter new for $350 for the action and am leaning towards a Brux barrel with a max length of no more than 22". I am planning on shooting mainly 105 Amax or 115 DTACs altough occasionally shooting 70 gr. NBTs. Would you recommend an 8 or a 7.5 twist ? Also, should I go with CM or stainless ? Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

1:7.5 just to be on the safe side

 

[JRose]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I run a 8 twist Rock barrel on mine and it shoots the 115's great. It is a true cut rifled 8 twist.

I don't see any reason to not get a SS barrel.

 

[E.Shell]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I got a 7.5 Schneider for my daughter and it works well with 115s and 105 Scenars.

Why you you agonize over a 1/2" difference in twist rate when both are known to work well?

ETA: I would question the 22" tube when *everything* a .243 has going for it is based on velocity and most folks don't even like to get down to 24".

 

[JRose]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I had a 8 twist button rifled barrel that wouldn't spin the 115's. If it were not a cut rifled true 8 twist, I would go 7.5 too.


Im not gonna tell you not to run a 22" barrel, apparently telling people not to run a short barrel is a "button", but I will tell you mine are all 27", and get my 115's up around 3050 w/o digging primers out of my mags.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

yeah ill have to agree with Jason here, for those zippy little wind cheaters you need to run them out of a 25 inch tube minimum. But 308 you can go as short as you want. That said i think you would be set with some of the top barrel makers cut rifled with a 7.5 or 8 twist

 

[SSG3K]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I have a 7.5 Broughton and a 7.5 Schneider. I would have to give a very slight edge to the Broughton. The schneider I have is finished at 25 and can still get 3050 from a DTAC. If you want to run DTAC bullet the throat will be quite long for a 70 to a 105.

Rich

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

The .243 is an overbore cartridge. Your hurting yourself by having a 22" barrel.
I'd never get shorter than a 24" in .243. I use a 26" right now, and might make it longer next time.

It's NOT like a .308 even though they share the same case. Same case, much smaller bore.

The efficiency of the .243win is similar to the 300WM... Not very efficient. Needs some barrel in front of it.

Keith

 

[Hogshooter]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Thanks for the replies guys. I will have it twisted 7.5 then since that seems to be the most popular for the heavies. The only reason that I wanted it to be short is that I was going to run my suppreesor on it and a 24 or 26" tube would make it mighty long for a hunting rifle once I screwed the can on (they are legal to hunt with here in Va.). I run a 20" on a suppressd .308 and that works well. I didn't realize that the .243 needed more length to be efficient. Looks like I may have to rethink this before proceding. The Brux barrels are cut rifled. What kind of velocity could I expect with the 105s out of a 24" ?

 

[E.Shell]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hogshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....What kind of velocity could I expect with the 105s out of a 24" ? </div></div>With Laura's 24" 1:7.5 Schneider, I easily get 2,975 FPS with 105 Scenars, and could get another 50 FPS or so if I didn't care about brass life.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I know the heavy bullets look sweet on paper, but you might consider 95gr Bergers. I push them just under 3200 with 47gr RL22. Only need a 1-9 twist. With a faster powder, like RL15, you might get them to 3000 with a 22" barrel.
Do the math for a BC of .5, at 3000fps. Outperforms just about any .308 load to 1000 yards

I've put tons of data into quickload for my 243. I didnt find the bigger bullets worth using for several reasons... Mag length, seating depth, trajectory out to 500, 1000, and 1250.

Check out the numbers. Make sure you really need that heavy of a bullet. Unless your going to shoot past 800 yards frequently, I bet the 95gr VLDs are better.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Oh and you said it's for hunting. How well it feeds is important than. And so is the bullets performance after impact. Berger makes two 95gr VLDs, both with the same BC, both exactly the same outside. One is for hunting, one for match. I've switched off between the two with no change in velocity, accuracy, and hardly a change in POI. The hunting ones really are great for hunting. They will mushroom at 500+ on coyotes and deer.


And btw, the kenetic energy of the 243 is not enough to hunt big game with past 750 yards, I dont care what bullet you use. I wont get into ethics here, but you DO need a certain amount of energy to do the job.

 

[omurnion]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

+1 Keith...You mention that you want to shoot 70 NBT also, I doubt that they will be very accurate in a 7.5 or 8 twist. With a 9 you could shoot them and 95 grain bullets, for hunting the 95 berger is plenty of bullet to kill deer. I would also consider a Rock or Bartlein 5r. I have both .243 and .243 AI. The only draw back to the AI is the first round feeds a little rough, the next 3 feed fine. You can't beat the brass life of the 243 AI.

 

[Hogshooter]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I will more than likely stick with the 105's and the 95's. I have two .223AI's, a .220 Swift, .22-250 for the light stuff anyway...thanks

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

One more thing, no point in using a 243AI in a short barrel. 243s barely burn all their powder anyways.

In my 26" barrel, I burn 98% with 47gr RL22.
Faster powders burn more complete, but not much and not always.

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know the heavy bullets look sweet on paper, but you might consider 95gr Bergers. I push them just under 3200 with 47gr RL22. Only need a 1-9 twist. With a faster powder, like RL15, you might get them to 3000 with a 22" barrel.
Do the math for a BC of .5, at 3000fps. Outperforms just about any .308 load to 1000 yards

I've put tons of data into quickload for my 243. I didnt find the bigger bullets worth using for several reasons... Mag length, seating depth, trajectory out to 500, 1000, and 1250.

Check out the numbers. Make sure you really need that heavy of a bullet. Unless your going to shoot past 800 yards frequently, I bet the 95gr VLDs are better.</div></div>

Here's a fine example of where reality differs significantly with "running the numbers" and inexperienced theory.

Heavy bullets do more than "look sweet on paper". They perform and perform very well, well past 1000. Lighter bullets may do well within 1K, but you get passed 800 yards the light bullets suffer greatly. There are very few rounds that can hang with a heavy bullet 243 and of those that can and surpass, you are getting knock down power and a bigger bullet splash, but rarely do you get better performance.

I like this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've put tons of data into quickload for my 243. I didnt find the bigger bullets worth using for several reasons... Mag length, seating depth, trajectory out to 500, 1000, and 1250.</div></div>
Please elaborate on your reasons you haven't found the 243 heavy bullets worth using as I have been shooting the heavy bullet 243 for years and I have yet to have a problem with mag length, seating depth, and especially trajectory well passed 1K.

Why don't you leave the advice to those who have the experience to give it?

 

[donovan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

i have a 243AI @ 22 and @23 had one @ 24 the new one will be 22 all but one are set up for the heavies and buddy has a 26 tube on his we run into pressure about the same 3150 with 105's no matter the barrel lenght. no quickload info , Real world info...

 

[donovan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

and i run the 75's and 105 out of an 8 twist fine

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I've got 3100+ w/ 105's out of a 22" easily and 3200 w/ 95's. Straight .243

 

[JRose]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I prefer a heavier bullet in all my guns.

.243 - 115gr
6.5 - 140gr
.308- 185-190gr

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Having played with the numbers it does seem that the 105gr Berger is the best .243 bullet?

Assuming 3100 for the 105 and 3000 for the 115 it beats the 115 berger

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having played with the numbers it does seem that the 105gr Berger is the best .243 bullet?

Assuming 3100 for the 105 and 3000 for the 115 it beats the 115 berger</div></div>

I'm not sure what criterion you are using to define "best", but no light bullet is going to beat the 115 DTAC out past 800 yards.

I, and many of the 243 shooters here, are getting 6.5 mils to 1K with zero pressure signs shot under competitive conditions. No 105 or lighter bullet is going to get to 1K with less elevation.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

What speeds are you getting with both bullets? I must admit I only compared the 105 and 115 bergers, not the 115 DTAC, and I only estimated possible speeds for each. By 'best' I meant least drift as that is my main concern

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lighter bullets may do well within 1K



Why don't you leave the advice to those who have the experience to give it? </div></div>


Thats what I said man. Not everyone shoots past 1000 yards every day...

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I, and many of the 243 shooters here, are getting 6.5 mils to 1K with zero pressure signs shot under competitive conditions. No 105 or lighter bullet is going to get to 1K with less elevation. </div></div>

Not everyone is a competative shooter. Just because its right for you, doesnt mean its right for him, hunting.

And with my zero at 200, I only need 24andChange MOA to get to 1000. Thats, 6.9 Mils right?
Works for me man. Might work for him. No need to insult people.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got 3100+ w/ 105's out of a 22" easily and 3200 w/ 95's. Straight .243 </div></div>

Pressure signs? Chamber?

Thats fast out of a 22". I dont load mine to max, but I only get 3200 with a 26"


Oh and sorry about the 3 posts in a row. Didnt figure out how to quote things from multiple posts until now.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got 3100+ w/ 105's out of a 22" easily and 3200 w/ 95's. Straight .243 </div></div>

Pressure signs? Chamber?

Thats fast out of a 22". I dont load mine to max, but I only get 3200 with a 26"


Oh and sorry about the 3 posts in a row. Didnt figure out how to quote things from multiple posts until now. </div></div>

No pressure signs, primers are rounded and extraction is easy, case life is good. Around 63000psi according to Quickload. Sako 75 factory barrel/chamber.


What are the disadvantages you percieve to using heavier bullets?

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

AZ,
Let's address many of the things you said

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I didnt find the bigger bullets worth using for several reasons... Mag length, seating depth, trajectory out to 500, 1000, and 1250.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">You said "trajectory out to 500, 1000, 1250". Both 1000 and 1250 are not "within 1K" so you are not specifically talking within 1000 yards. lighter bullets will perform well within 800+/- yards, but may not necessarily out perform the heavier bullets even at shorter distances.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not everyone is a competative shooter. Just because its right for you, doesnt mean its right for him, hunting.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">what type of shooting you do is irrelevant. Bullet performance is bullet performance. We weren't discussing killing power or expansion of bullets, we were talking flight time and when you get past a certain distance, lighter bullets bleed energy significantly.

Side note:I like how you edited some of your earlier posts to specifically reflect "hunting" rather than strict bullet performance which we were originally discussing.-Kudos

Besides, some may argue that hunting outside of 300-400 yards even with a skilled shooter may be unethical; even though many here have the skill set to hunt at great distances successfully and have done so without issue. But if that was the case, do we confine the bullet performance parameters to <400 yards?
</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And with my zero at 200, I only need 24andChange MOA to get to 1000. Thats, 6.9 Mils right?</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">We've got to compare apples to apples. Therefore since we're talking about 200 yard zeros, then my .243 would be 6.1 mils to 1000. .8 mils difference is big both in elevation and windage (which we haven't even touched on again where the bigger bullet outperforms).</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Works for me man. Might work for him. No need to insult people.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">What works for you? Performance on paper? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've put tons of data into quickload for my 243.</div></div> Have you put tons of bullets down range? Grow some thick skin. I wasn't insulting you. You would know if I was insulting you. I was pointing out two things; one, what works on paper doesn't necessarily equate to real world performance and your experience in shooting the 243 is not what I deem to be enough to be giving advice on said cartridge and when I call you on it, you're getting defensive.</span>

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Back to what I was saying earlier, anyone got any thoughts on the 105berger vs the 115s?

Just from playing with the ballistics program, it seems that the 105 berger has the least drift at 1K assuming 3100/105 and 3000/115, using the Litz BCs...

Anyone got any real world max speeds for 105 and 115 out of the same barrel? I'm just guesstimating for the 115 as I can't stabilise them

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back to what I was saying earlier, anyone got any thoughts on the 105berger vs the 115s?

Just from playing with the ballistics program, it seems that the 105 berger has the least drift at 1K assuming 3100/105 and 3000/115, using the Litz BCs...

Anyone got any real world max speeds for 105 and 115 out of the same barrel? I'm just guesstimating for the 115 as I can't stabilise them</div></div>

Bevan,

To address your specific issues, 100% of the people I know who shoot the 243 for long distances >800 yards use the 115DTACs. Again the reason for this is we've been through about every 6mm bullet and the DTACs just do the job better and more consistently, again at longer distances. As far as max speed goes, I've seen the 115's over 3200. Barrel twist is a huge factor. I would never go less than a 1:7.5 twist although some have had success with 1:8 if it is a true 1:8. My thought is why take a chance when the 1:7.5 has been proven time and time again.

I hope this helps.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Mike, shooting 95s out to 1000 is what I said works for me.

I understand everything your saying and I may have put more rounds down range than you think, sir.

Dont get so defensive over your 115s. We're just lending advice to someone looking for a 243 hunting load capable of long range. He's not looking for a comp gun.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back to what I was saying earlier, anyone got any thoughts on the 105berger vs the 115s?

Just from playing with the ballistics program, it seems that the 105 berger has the least drift at 1K assuming 3100/105 and 3000/115, using the Litz BCs...

Anyone got any real world max speeds for 105 and 115 out of the same barrel? I'm just guesstimating for the 115 as I can't stabilise them</div></div>

Bevan,

To address your specific issues, 100% of the people I know who shoot the 243 for long distances >800 yards use the 115DTACs. Again the reason for this is we've been through about every 6mm bullet and the DTACs just do the job better and more consistently, again at longer distances. As far as max speed goes, I've seen the 115's over 3200. Barrel twist is a huge factor. I would never go less than a 1:7.5 twist although some have had success with 1:8 if it is a true 1:8. My thought is why take a chance when the 1:7.5 has been proven time and time again.

I hope this helps. </div></div>


I have another build coming up, and planning to use 115 DTACs. This thread has been interesting. So 1:8 twist is what you would recommend ?

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Roger that, I guess I'll give the 115's a go and get a 1:7.5 next barrel. If I can get DTACs here in NZ



For what it's worth I've shot a lot of game to 700 yards with the 95's and they worked but I'd have preferred a heavier bullet... limited by twist though.

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mike, shooting 95s out to 1000 is what I said works for me.

I understand everything your saying and I may have put more rounds down range than you think, sir.

Dont get so defensive over your 115s. We're just lending advice to someone looking for a 243 hunting load capable of long range. He's not looking for a comp gun.</div></div>

AZ, let me address this post with a couple of questions.

1. If shooting 95's out to 1K works for you, why does it work for you? Meaning what are you doing with 95s that hasn't been done or tried and what have you done with the 115s that has shown you they are not worthy? Or should I say how does the 95, or 105 for that matter, outperform the 115 at longer ranges?

2. I never questioned how many rounds you've fired, however I seriously doubt that you can match what many of us older and more experienced shooters have done. I know that sounds arrogant and that is not my intent, but only stated as fact.

3. I'm not getting defensive over the 115s. What I am trying to point out is that the goal of the OP is what many of us have spent countless hours both on the bench and on the range trying to accomplish. We have all arrived basically at the same conclusion and that is the 115s work better at longer ranges. In fact, if you look at just about any cartridge I can think of from the 22-250 or 220 Swift up to and past the 338 Lapua, heavier bullets win the day at longer ranges. That is why some try and shoot the 190gns in a 308, or a 300gn in a 338Lapua, or a 95gn in a 22-250. Heavier equals farther. It's simple physics. As far as a hunting load goes, I really don't see the difference. Yes, there is a difference in the performance of the bullet with respect to expansion, penetration, etc on the target itself. And if hunting is his ONLY goal, then the conversation should be specifically set around a certain hunting bullet. Because again bullet flight is bullet flight regardless of the intended target whether it be animal, paper or steel. I don't think making broad brush, incorrect statements are accurate or direct the OP in the right direction. For the "comp gun", I don't know what specifically you mean. My 243 would be just at home in a tree stand, hiking a few miles, or off-hand. It is not some 28" 7 contour barrel'd behemoth in an AI chassis. So I don't quite understand the continued reference to "comp gun" or what makes a "comp gun" different? Is it the drop mag, or a wooden stock? Because I can use a 5 rounder. My rifles are built to be mobile and utilitarian, not some concrete anchor with no recoil a la BR rifles. I hope you are not confusing a "comp gun" with a bench rest gun because those are two entirely different animals.

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PadronAniversary</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back to what I was saying earlier, anyone got any thoughts on the 105berger vs the 115s?

Just from playing with the ballistics program, it seems that the 105 berger has the least drift at 1K assuming 3100/105 and 3000/115, using the Litz BCs...

Anyone got any real world max speeds for 105 and 115 out of the same barrel? I'm just guesstimating for the 115 as I can't stabilise them</div></div>

Bevan,

To address your specific issues, 100% of the people I know who shoot the 243 for long distances >800 yards use the 115DTACs. Again the reason for this is we've been through about every 6mm bullet and the DTACs just do the job better and more consistently, again at longer distances. As far as max speed goes, I've seen the 115's over 3200. Barrel twist is a huge factor. I would never go less than a 1:7.5 twist although some have had success with 1:8 if it is a true 1:8. My thought is why take a chance when the 1:7.5 has been proven time and time again.

I hope this helps. </div></div>


I have another build coming up, and planning to use 115 DTACs. This thread has been interesting. So 1:8 twist is what you would recommend ? </div></div>

I would recommend a 1:7.5 twist if you plan on shooting the 115 dtacs. You will be much happier with that twist and those bullets.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Is there a site or article that can educate me further on twist and weight of bullet ?

assuming a 1:8 twist, what bullet would u go for under 600 yards ?

What I mean is there a formula that can calculate this ?

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

I'm sure there is a formula or at least a rule of thumb. I do not know it off the top of my head.

If you were going to get a 1:8, there are a number of bullets you can look at. Sierra, Hornady A-Max, Berger, etc. You have a variety of options for a 1:8.

One question I would ask is unless you already have a 1:8, why would you buy it? You can still shoot lighter bullets with the 1:7.5 and it gives you the added piece of mind of knowing you will stabilize the 115s if you decide to ever go that route. As I said, some have had success using a 1:8 but why take a chance?

 

[OKbow87]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

If you buy Litz' book, there is a program in the back that calculates optimal barrel twist, by using length and weight of the bullet, muzzle velocity, and barrel twist. You can also change the atmospheric conditions to see how they will stabilize at higher or lower elevations, diff temps, and barometric pressure. It's a pretty neat program. There is a whole chapter in the book about it.

Just wondering if anybody has shot any game with the new pointed 115 dtacs. Seems to me like it would hinder the terminal performance of the bullet compared to the original which I know worked well.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Mike. I appreciate your expertise on this, I really do.

When I was talking about my 95gr load and using it for a 1000 yard hunting, I said it's best for ME.

I realize my 200 yard Zero isnt apples to apples comparing it to your zero/dope. But again, Thats what *I* do, and it works great for *me*. With a 200 zero, I'm point blank to 225, and I have pretty decent trajectory after that.

The 115s have an amazing BC, and I realize this matters a ton past 800 or 1000. However, they arent really much better until you reach these longer distnces right?

I do 90% of my shooting between 50 yards and 800 yards... it's a coyote rifle. Performance between 200 and 600, is every bit important(if not more) as 800+. For me again.

I know George and yourself are great sniper comp shooters, and when I eventually see you guys on the line, I may just be using my 243 rebarreled to shoot the 115s.

But for now, hunting coyotes from 50 feet to 1250 yards(my farthest DOPE), the 95gr VLD hunting bullets are just tits.

How do the 115 Dtacs perform on animals?


Lastly, I didnt say the 115s are the "best" bullets choice for long range competative shooting with our 243s. They probably are like you say. But I dont shoot comps yet. I hunt, and I think thats what the guy asking questions here is doing with it too.

A big match bullet may not be right for him. A slightly smaller hunting bullet that still has a nice BC, might be.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Oh, he also said he wants a shorter barrel. 22".


How well would the 115s do out a 22" barrel, and not a 28" like a comp gun?


And lastly, I said I dont like the heavier bullets for what I'm doing because: I dont like how deep I have to seat them. I dont have a DBM, I use a hinged M4. This limits me to a shorter mag length more so than a DBM. I need a hunting bullet. I found that with a BC of .5 and a velocity of 3200fps, it has the bullet I want(hunting), seated to a depth I like, and it still outperforms most any 308 load and even some LA magnum loads like when I was using 190gr SMKs out a my 300WM. This 243 load I use, keeps up with my old load with 190s in 300WM. Far less knockdown power, but similar trajectories.

 

[rc2125]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyone got any real world max speeds for 105 and 115 out of the same barrel? I'm just guesstimating for the 115 as I can't stabilise them </div></div>

Been running coated 115's around 3050fps, 26" #7 bartlein tight bore 7.7twist, 41gr R17.... not sure on max speeds, never ventured past 3100, called it good.

This morning, I ran 105 berger hunting vlds, same rifle, somewhat looking to see how much I could push them, just over 3200 my speeds started to vary more, but no tell tale pressure indications. Will probably settle with 3150 and call it good, 42.5gr R17 if I recall correctly. 52 degrees, raining, 750ft elev, chrono 6ft off.

 

[knockemdown]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Hey Hogs,
I was in the same boat as you not too long ago, so maybe my recent build will give you some ideas...

After taking what I wanted from my rifle performance wise and the desire for minimal reloading steps (no fireforming) into account, I ended up with a fast twist straight .243 that GAP put together. I'm a hunter and don't have near the shooting experience or prowess as many here who shoot comps, but I do hope to be participating in the future. So this stick was built to cover both of those bases in either eventuality and to just plain shoot & enjoy!

Since pics tend to be more suggestive, here's what it looks like...

My Remmy action, trued, side bolt release, KMW shifter
26", 7.5 twist Rock 5R in Rem Varmint contour
Seekins DMS
A-5 EDGE
Loaded, scoped, w/bipod, it weighs under 14 lbs

As per my request, GAP chambered the Rock specifically for the 115DTACS. They did a GREAT job as I can load them to the lands with room to spare in the detachable magazine...

I'm still shaking it out far as loads go, but I'm easily getting 3050 with no pressure from H4350 pushing the 115DTACS (moly'ed). And at 600, those suckers hit the steel HARD! Being an avid hunter, I can't wait to insert one into a couple coyotes and possibily a whitetail when opportunity arises. And surely some shooting comps in the future...

So after going through this myself, I can only suggest that you decide what YOU want from your rifle and go from there...

In the meantime, good luck and have fun along the way!

 

[Hogshooter]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

You guys have a lot of great sticks for their intended purpose. In my original post I stated that this was mainly going to be a hunting rifle. I have a 26" rifles in .204, .223, .22-250, .220 Swift, .243 Win and a 24" GAP SCLE .308 rifle for shooting long distance. I hunt varmints at night with a suppressed 17" .223AI pushing 50 gr. Vmax and 77 SMKs fast enough to do the job. This rifle will be used for whitetail deer at no more than 400 - 500 yds across a beanfield. I just wanted something a little flatter shooting and legal here in Va for deer other than than my 20" .308 which I currently use for deer. I have never taken my SCLE into the woods as it is too damn heavy to be tot'en up a tree.

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

AZ,

Thanks for your last posts as it sheds a ton of light on what specific criterion you are looking at rather than making huge broad brush statements (as I have been guilty of myself). Although I still prefer the 115s for virtually anything 243 related, I would readily admit that I have not seen their performance on a food based animal, a la deer, but have seen them destroy coyotes, the stray feral dog, feral hogs, etc. and I all I can say it knocks them down hard.

With that being said for a hunting application within the confines of what you are looking for, rock on with what works for you. I am just an amateur in this world with a long way to go to get better, but when I speak up about something I usually do so from experience and I don't want to see people go through the same headaches many of us already have.

Us what works for you and press on. If you ever want to dabble on the dark side with 115s, let me know.

 

[Bevan]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

115 Berger would perform similarly to the ligher bergers on game I expect.


Why is the DTAC more popular than the 115 berger when Litz' measured BC's show the Berger to be as good/slightly higher?

cost? easier to get it to shoot?

 

[BryanLitz]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

Bevan,
I'm not sure that the DTAC is more popular, overall, even though it's heavily discussed in this thread.

If the DTAC is more favored, it may have to do with the secant ogive on the VLD, which <span style="font-style: italic">is known to be more sensitive to seating depth</span> than the tangent ogive on the DTAC.

I doubt cost is a major factor in this case. Sure the Berger's are probably more expensive, but the 115 grain bullets require a <span style="font-style: italic">faster than factory</span> barrel twist. Than means that if you're shooting either one, you did the research and paid the price of a custom barrel. Who would do that then choose one bullet over another <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> because they're a few pennies cheaper?

Then there's simple brand preference.

 

[Mike]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bevan,
I'm not sure that the DTAC is more popular, overall, even though it's heavily discussed in this thread.

If the DTAC is more favored, it may have to do with the secant ogive on the VLD, which <span style="font-style: italic">is known to be more sensitive to seating depth</span> than the tangent ogive on the DTAC.

I doubt cost is a major factor in this case. Sure the Berger's are probably more expensive, but the 115 grain bullets require a <span style="font-style: italic">faster than factory</span> barrel twist. Than means that if you're shooting either one, you did the research and paid the price of a custom barrel. Who would do that then choose one bullet over another <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> because they're a few pennies cheaper?

Then there's simple brand preference.</div></div>

This is my conjecture based solely on opinion and speculation.

Why is the DTAC more popular? First, I believe because it's been around longer. We were messing with the 115s, then the 117s, then the 111s, then back to the 115s, and now the new 115s with the cleaned up meplats. I don't know how long the Berger 115s have been around, but I take it they're not more than a year or so old. Most everyone had set loads and known and established dope at that point. Plus, the DTACs proved they worked time and time again. Very few smart shooters walk away from a known performer in the hopes of possible gaining a small and potentially insignificant benefit.

Second, I believe Bryan hit the nail on the head. There are those that like to load and those that do not. Messing with the seating depth is, for those of us that don't care for fooling with a load, a major PITA. On my 243, the DTACs have shot the same after the 100th round as they have after the 1200th. Also, another factor for me personally is that I shoot my DTACs with the BN coating which is probably why I get great velocities and no pressure signs. I don't know if the Bergers come coated or if you have to do it yourself.

And again I would concur with Bryan in the fact that cost, especially if it's miniscule, does not factor in at all.

So if you're at the point where you've not shot the heavies before, try either one and go with what you see, not what it says on paper. I'm a firm believer in targets don't lie. A couple of smart people from Texas taught me that. As I said I have not tried the Bergers so cannot comment on them.

 

[TRON]

Re: Suggestions on a .243 build

really great info here