Night Vision Super Yoter Dual Use?

[Derek Haugen]

I have been going back and forth on my first thermal purchase for about 3 months now and still cannot decide. Hoping someone has some good experience that can point me in the right direction.

I am very much a buy once, cry once kind of guy, but also want to be realistic on the total value add. Right now, this is what I am intending to get:

A thermal that can do:
1. Hunt Coyotes up to 300 yards. I have areas much further than this, but I am not comfortable with anything beyond that for the foreseeable future at night.
2. Hunt Rabbits/Raccoons (where legal) an general small varmints around my farm.
3. Help me do some deer and turkey scouting on my various properties (that I hunt) for help in deer and turkey counts. Would like a far detection range for this.

I am a weekend warrior and honestly will probably use this 70/30 scouting / hunting.

My question is, do you think I can get away with getting a Bering Super Yoter (Maybe LRF) 50mm with a QD mount and use it for all of my needs? I know many state the QD mount is not all that easy to remount after scanning with a coyote running in, but wondering if that is something that I can just live with or if it will be a severe detriment to my coyote hunting. My other concern is that the FOV (while still not too bad in comparison of other models) is too small to be used as a scanner and that magnification will make anything under 50 yards (rabbits/raccoons...etc) impossible to focus on.

An online dealer suggested I get the Bering Phenom 640, and then get something like the Hogster A3, but that still puts me at a pretty high price tag and I am undecided on if I can get all I want (or the majority of it anyway) in one scope. Has anyone done similar and feel like just having the scope with a QD mount is enough or do you really need a dedicated scanner?

Appreciate anyone taking the time to read and help me out. Looking through posts on this forum has really helped in many of my decisions regarding optics and guns. Really a cool community.

 

[patina]

It’s absolutely doable as long as you are scanning fairly open areas. I used a Super Hogster A3 (which has a tighter 7.5* FOV) last year exactly how you are describing and it worked very well. I have a SY50 now and it’s an improvement in every measurable way. You will have no problem focusing on objects that are 5 yards in front of you, let alone inside of 50. I would highly recommend the LaRue mount for solid return to zero. Just be forewarned - if you snap it on and off a lot - it will half-moon the inside edge of one section of your pic rail due to the nature of the design.

I got sick of popping it on and off of the rifle and ultimately bought an inexpensive 384 1x handheld. Although I know the return to zero is solid with the LaRue mount, I appreciate the peace of mind knowing the optic is somewhat married to my rifle. Also, this allows you to bring a friend along for the action without having to worry that they are going to drop your $4500 toy.

 

[DIBBS]

@kirsch

 

[308James]

The wider FOV is most important when the hogs are running or your trying to follow something moving. Just for scanning not near as important. Just think of it like a scope, you will see more with a 4 power but if you are using a 6 power you just have to scan some more… hopefully that make sense, sorta hard to explain in a sentence or two.

 

[James Abram]

If you’re looking to get a quality image at 300 yards I would definitely suggest a 640 unit. For your scanning it’s going to be MUCH easier if you have a dedicated hand help unit. The Super Yoter is a great scope, and definitely worth the money.

Your ideal set up would be a 640 on your gun and a 384 scanner, and that lets two people play at the same time.

 

[Derek Haugen]

It’s absolutely doable as long as you are scanning fairly open areas. I used a Super Hogster A3 (which has a tighter 7.5* FOV) last year exactly how you are describing and it worked very well. I have a SY50 now and it’s an improvement in every measurable way. You will have no problem focusing on objects that are 5 yards in front of you, let alone inside of 50. I would highly recommend the LaRue mount for solid return to zero. Just be forewarned - if you snap it on and off a lot - it will half-moon the inside edge of one section of your pic rail due to the nature of the design.

I got sick of popping it on and off of the rifle and ultimately bought an inexpensive 384 1x handheld. Although I know the return to zero is solid with the LaRue mount, I appreciate the peace of mind knowing the optic is somewhat married to my rifle. Also, this allows you to bring a friend along for the action without having to worry that they are going to drop your $4500 toy.

Appreciate the feedback. Sounds like we find ourselves in similar hunting situations. Have you found that the SY50 is ever too heavy for monocular use? I know you said you mainly used that Hogster A3 in the fashion I am looking to but am curious about how that SY50 feels. I have been eying that SY50 LRF for a do all optic but have heard with the LRF it is significantly heavier and its shape doesn't lend itself to be a reasonable scanner.

 

[Derek Haugen]

The wider FOV is most important when the hogs are running or your trying to follow something moving. Just for scanning not near as important. Just think of it like a scope, you will see more with a 4 power but if you are using a 6 power you just have to scan some more… hopefully that make sense, sorta hard to explain in a sentence or two.

Definitely makes sense. I guess if I wanted a happy medium I could look at the SY 35MM for a better FOV but will give up some effective range I think even with a 640 unit.

 

[Derek Haugen]

If you’re looking to get a quality image at 300 yards I would definitely suggest a 640 unit. For your scanning it’s going to be MUCH easier if you have a dedicated hand help unit. The Super Yoter is a great scope, and definitely worth the money.

Your ideal set up would be a 640 on your gun and a 384 scanner, and that lets two people play at the same time.

Agreed, I think regardless of my first choice, it will be a 640. I have heard mixed opinions on what to prioritize first. Quality scanner with lesser scope vs quality scope vs lesser scanner. Right now, until I know for absolute sure I am going to be coyote hunting consistently, I would rather get ONE thing that is quality that can serve dual use for the time being but won't need to be upgraded right away later if I decide its my new passion.

 

[patina]

Appreciate the feedback. Sounds like we find ourselves in similar hunting situations. Have you found that the SY50 is ever too heavy for monocular use? I know you said you mainly used that Hogster A3 in the fashion I am looking to but am curious about how that SY50 feels. I have been eying that SY50 LRF for a do all optic but have heard with the LRF it is significantly heavier and its shape doesn't lend itself to be a reasonable scanner.

I had no interest in the LRF since all of my shots are inside ~250yds and I did not want the extra 12oz of weight.

The SY50 is noticeably larger footprint than the Hogster A3. That being said, the SY screen seems like almost double the size of the A3. Huge upgrade in that respect. I dont think it’s too big to tote as a scanner. But, once you look through a 1x handheld, you will want one.

I think you should get the SY50 and run it double duty for now, with the ultimate goal of picking up a 384 handheld down the road.

Even my AGM ASP Micro 384 is perfectly suitable as a scanner. They can be found new sub-$1000. It’s small, lightweight, and works.

 

[Rerun7]

Sorry if I missed it but what’s your budget?

So many thoughts on this as I’ve been down several paths. Depending on your budget the advice may vary a bit.

 

[Derek Haugen]

Sorry if I missed it but what’s your budget?

So many thoughts on this as I’ve been down several paths. Depending on your budget the advice may vary a bit.

I should have added that. Budget is $5500.

 

[Derek Haugen]

I had no interest in the LRF since all of my shots are inside ~250yds and I did not want the extra 12oz of weight.

The SY50 is noticeably larger footprint than the Hogster A3. That being said, the SY screen seems like almost double the size of the A3. Huge upgrade in that respect. I dont think it’s too big to tote as a scanner. But, once you look through a 1x handheld, you will want one.

I think you should get the SY50 and run it double duty for now, with the ultimate goal of picking up a 384 handheld down the road.

Even my AGM ASP Micro 384 is perfectly suitable as a scanner. They can be found new sub-$1000. It’s small, lightweight, and works.

Good to hear the SY is a major improvement. The only reason I consider the SY35, is if I end up with just one unit and use it alot for deer/turkey scouting, I may like the larger FOV. I really need to just look through both of them, but I don't really have anything close to me that carries these.

 

[Rerun7]

I should have added that. Budget is $5500.

I’ve tried about every combination of scopes, scanners, I2, etc. IMO, it is by far better to have a scanner and a dedicated scope. Even if you just have a scope, once you are out there you’re probably going to keep it on the rifle and scan with it mounted. Trying to mount it after you spot something just doesn’t work well.

Are you really going to shoot 300yds or is that your distance to spot/ID? I thought I needed to shoot at 300 and quickly found that 90% of my shots are within 100, even though I can spot them at 500-600. Even at 300, you prob don’t need an LRF if you have a decently flat shooting cartridge.

Also, the 640 is great but I used a 384 scanner and scope for years and had little issue IDing targets at 300+. It was only hard when they weren’t moving.

If I had that budget today I’d get a 384 scope and a 384 scanner. If you can find a great deal then upgrade to a 640 scanner. This gives you more capabilities, a backup device, and easier operation at night.

640 is nice but I’d pick more capabilities 10 out of 10 times.

 

[kirsch]

There are 3 schools of thought for coyote hunting with thermals. The best option, by far, is a thermal scope and scanner. If for some reason I couldn't use my thermal scanner, I would quit nighttime coyote hunting. The combination of fatigue and missed opportunities with the other two options are too limiting.

The other two options are to use as a scanner and scope while mounted to the gun. The nice thing about this option is the gun is ready when you spot the coyote. There is limited movement. The negative is looking through a scope and rotating 360°. It is very fatiguing doing this for long periods of time. You are also swinging your muzzle in directions that can raise a safety concern. The 2nd option is to do as some have mentioned which is scan with the scope off your gun, and then mount and attempt to shoot. I tell people, go into your basement, and turn off all the lights, and put on a pair of gloves, and see how fast you can do this. Did you get it on the right rail slot, how long did it take you do it, and how much movement was there? Now imagine doing this with a pack of coyotes bearing down on your location and coyotes see by movement, so they will most likely pick up your movement. Even if they don't, how far have the coyotes moved by the time the scope is mounted. If you are going to attempt to do this (which I wouldn't), I would recommend getting LaRue index clips. This will help you know where to mount the thermal. The challenge of mounting the thermal with live-action applies to calling coyotes not hunting over bait for instance, where either option can work.

In the end if you want to be successful, you will own two thermals.

I hunt wide open plains, so if I had to choose, I would get a 640 scanner and a 384 scope. Two reasons for this are that 384 scopes have a higher magnification (smaller FOV) vs 640 if all other factors remain the same. I would rather have the magnification at the scope. Also, the scanner is what you are looking 99% of the time. I understand people saying I will just get a cheap scanner, but this totally kills a large part of the enjoyment of the hunt.

I am not a recreational coyote hunter. Hunting coyotes is part of my job as a Product Specialist for Night Goggles. My role is not a sales role, but I test, review, and post videos along with many other things for Night Goggles. Send me a PM and I can help you through a lot of this, as I have tested every Bering product released in the last 4 years plus I test other brands as well.

To keep you to a $5,500 budget, some options include:

Super Yoter 35 and Bering Optics Phenom 384 25. You are just a little over budget with this combination. I still would recommend a 640 scanner but the 25 is a decent scanner. The Super Yoter 35 will allow you to get to 300 yards shooting.

Super Hogster and Vibe 35. All 384 but this allows you to have 2 scopes or 1 scope and 1 scanner. The Super Hogster's comfortable shooting range is about 300 and the Vibe 35 around 200-225.

You can also start with a Super Yoter 35 or 50, and after you experience what I am talking about, next year or later at some point, you will be buying a Phenom 640.

 

[B y r o n]

Have you taken a look at Pard as an option?

 

[Derek Haugen]

There are 3 schools of thought for coyote hunting with thermals. The best option, by far, is a thermal scope and scanner. If for some reason I couldn't use my thermal scanner, I would quit nighttime coyote hunting. The combination of fatigue and missed opportunities with the other two options are too limiting.

The other two options are to use as a scanner and scope while mounted to the gun. The nice thing about this option is the gun is ready when you spot the coyote. There is limited movement. The negative is looking through a scope and rotating 360°. It is very fatiguing doing this for long periods of time. You are also swinging your muzzle in directions that can raise a safety concern. The 2nd option is to do as some have mentioned which is scan with the scope off your gun, and then mount and attempt to shoot. I tell people, go into your basement, and turn off all the lights, and put on a pair of gloves, and see how fast you can do this. Did you get it on the right rail slot, how long did it take you do it, and how much movement was there? Now imagine doing this with a pack of coyotes bearing down on your location and coyotes see by movement, so they will most likely pick up your movement. Even if they don't, how far have the coyotes moved by the time the scope is mounted. If you are going to attempt to do this (which I wouldn't), I would recommend getting LaRue index clips. This will help you know where to mount the thermal. The challenge of mounting the thermal with live-action applies to calling coyotes not hunting over bait for instance, where either option can work.

In the end if you want to be successful, you will own two thermals.

I hunt wide open plains, so if I had to choose, I would get a 640 scanner and a 384 scope. Two reasons for this are that 384 scopes have a higher magnification (smaller FOV) vs 640 if all other factors remain the same. I would rather have the magnification at the scope. Also, the scanner is what you are looking 99% of the time. I understand people saying I will just get a cheap scanner, but this totally kills a large part of the enjoyment of the hunt.

I am not a recreational coyote hunter. Hunting coyotes is part of my job as a Product Specialist for Night Goggles. My role is not a sales role, but I test, review, and post videos along with many other things for Night Goggles. Send me a PM and I can help you through a lot of this, as I have tested every Bering product released in the last 4 years plus I test other brands as well.

To keep you to a $5,500 budget, some options include:

Super Yoter 35 and Bering Optics Phenom 384 25. You are just a little over budget with this combination. I still would recommend a 640 scanner but the 25 is a decent scanner. The Super Yoter 35 will allow you to get to 300 yards shooting.

Super Hogster and Vibe 35. All 384 but this allows you to have 2 scopes or 1 scope and 1 scanner. The Super Hogster's comfortable shooting range is about 300 and the Vibe 35 around 200-225.

You can also start with a Super Yoter 35 or 50, and after you experience what I am talking about, next year or later at some point, you will be buying a Phenom 640.

Really appreciate the detailed reply here. Kinda sounding like there is no way around it. A scope+scanner will be the eventual need for the long term. My decision now comes down to trying to get both, or getting the best scope I can get, and using the headache of only using one thermal drive the motivation to buy a 640 scanner later down the line. I do like this option for the idea that if I end up not liking thermal hunting at all, I don't have 2 units to part with. Testing the waters with something that is future proof and holds a decent amount of value in the near term.

 

[Derek Haugen]

Have you taken a look at Pard as an option?

No, I hadn't even heard of them until now. Interesting...

 

[Ksracer]

I do like this option for the idea that if I end up not liking thermal hunting at all,

That won't happen.... Just trust us, it won't..

 

[Derek Haugen]

Side question to add, what are the thoughts on getting something like a Bering Phenom 640 for scanning and use a low priced Sightmark Wraith for a scope for awhile? Is that achievable to shoot coyotes to 150 yards?

 

[Quarter Horse]

Take a look in the PX using the Night Vision banner. There were a couple of S35 Steiner Night Hunter scopes for $3000. They are 640s. I don't believe either one has had a round fired under it.

 

[SDBguy95]

I've been night hunting coyotes for the last few years and have trod the road of a single unit to eventually 2 units. I'd say go with 2 units out of the gate. I started with a 384 scope and a tripod, hunted like that until I could afford a 640 scope. I thought I was living large having an XP50 (640) thermion on the gun and a Pulsar core (384) for scanning. It was nice having two units but truth be told I was still left wanting. I had an old core to scan with which was less than desirable and my mounted optic had a 2x base mag. Sold them both and ended up with a Halo 25mm to try out the "scan unmounted, remount shoot" theory and thought it sucked. Next step was buying another scope, I ended up buying an AGM Adder to put on the rifle and that left the Halo to use as a scanner. All of what is written so far has built a strong opinion in me that goes along with Kirsch, go with a 640 scanner and a 384 scope with at least 3x base mag. I sold the Halo recently and plan to buy a 640 scanner with an lrf. Hunting just isn't that cool anymore with just one unit

 

[Derek Haugen]

I've been night hunting coyotes for the last few years and have trod the road of a single unit to eventually 2 units. I'd say go with 2 units out of the gate. I started with a 384 scope and a tripod, hunted like that until I could afford a 640 scope. I thought I was living large having an XP50 (640) thermion on the gun and a Pulsar core (384) for scanning. It was nice having two units but truth be told I was still left wanting. I had an old core to scan with which was less than desirable and my mounted optic had a 2x base mag. Sold them both and ended up with a Halo 25mm to try out the "scan unmounted, remount shoot" theory and thought it sucked. Next step was buying another scope, I ended up buying an AGM Adder to put on the rifle and that left the Halo to use as a scanner. All of what is written so far has built a strong opinion in me that goes along with Kirsch, go with a 640 scanner and a 384 scope with at least 3x base mag. I sold the Halo recently and plan to buy a 640 scanner with an lrf. Hunting just isn't that cool anymore with just one unit

Haha makes sense. Side question of mine. Looking right now at a spotter first (would like 640 only) would it make sense to get something like the Super Yoter 35mm instead of the Phenom 640 so that you have something that can be dual use (still plan to get a dedicated scope down the line) as a spare and use as a spotter primarily. Other than cost, looks like I would only lose about 2 degrees of FOV and a couple ounces more weight. Is there anything else I could be missing from that comparison that would make that a decent idea?

 

[Rerun7]

Having a unit that can play double duty is a great idea. I just got a SY35 and seems like a great device. Fits in a bino pouch and really good image. Only downfall is the cr123. Easy to use an extended battery on the gun but harder when using it as a spotter.

 

[SDBguy95]

Rerun has a great point. 123s are not cheap when you eat a couple a night. That's 5 bucks a night and a good anker battery pack is 25 bucks. I ran an anker on my halo and it saved money, but was noticeably bulkier. I know you can get rechargeable 123 batteries but have never tried them. You will spend more to get the same image in a scope vs scanner too. If I didn't want a unit with a range finder, I would have kept the Halo as a scanner. I thought it would be nice to have as a buddy setup to throw on a rifle for friends to come along with, but 90% of the time it was used without a rifle under it.

 

[db2000]

Having a unit that can play double duty is a great idea. I just got a SY35 and seems like a great device. Fits in a bino pouch and really good image. Only downfall is the cr123. Easy to use an extended battery on the gun but harder when using it as a spotter.

Get the rechargeable 123s and an Anker for gun mount

 

[Ksracer]

You could easily put a QD clamp on top of a rechargeable selfie stick and mount the scope to it.
The Phenom 640 I'm selling has a rechargeable battery built into a compact unit.

 

[db2000]

You could easily put a QD clamp on top of a rechargeable selfie stick and mount the scope to it.
The Phenom 640 I'm selling has a rechargeable battery built into a compact unit.

What happens when the internal battery dies? Do you you an external source or can you just swap it out with another “internal” battery?

 

[Ksracer]

What happens when the internal battery dies? Do you you an external source or can you just swap it out with another “internal” battery?

The battery is not field changeable.

But it will run off an external source, or you could charge it in the truck between stands. I haven't come close to draining it in 1 night yet.

The selfie stick with the battery in the handle is Kirsch's idea and seems like a great solution if battery life becomes an issue.

 

[Derek Haugen]

Having a unit that can play double duty is a great idea. I just got a SY35 and seems like a great device. Fits in a bino pouch and really good image. Only downfall is the cr123. Easy to use an extended battery on the gun but harder when using it as a spotter.

For your Super Yoter 35, what would you say is the detection range? Would I be able to see (for scouting) Turkeys at quite a distance? FOV wide enough for scanning? Still hung up on Phenom vs SY35 just for the FOV difference.

 

[Rerun7]

For your Super Yoter 35, what would you say is the detection range? Would I be able to see (for scouting) Turkeys at quite a distance? FOV wide enough for scanning? Still hung up on Phenom vs SY35 just for the FOV difference.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on FOV and think more about what conveniences and roles you want it to fill. I won’t be using the SY35 for scanning but will say that it’s way better than the scanner I used for years so it would work fine it that role.

Any handheld scanner you use is going to require you to be moving back and forth a lot so quality of image, detection range, etc is more important than FOV IMO.

This weekend will be my first time to get out with the SY35 since I recently got it but I can say the image/detection from what I’ve seen at the house is way better than my last scope. With that scope (384), I had no issues picking up things like armadillos at a few hundred yards when they are in the open.

If you aren’t used to using thermal it takes a little bit to get really good at spotting stuff. Once you do, nothing can hide.

 

[kirsch]

Haha makes sense. Side question of mine. Looking right now at a spotter first (would like 640 only) would it make sense to get something like the Super Yoter 35mm instead of the Phenom 640 so that you have something that can be dual use (still plan to get a dedicated scope down the line) as a spare and use as a spotter primarily. Other than cost, looks like I would only lose about 2 degrees of FOV and a couple ounces more weight. Is there anything else I could be missing from that comparison that would make that a decent idea?

Weight, form-factor, and price are the potential negatives of using the SY35 as a scanner in comparison to the Phenom 640. This doesn't make it a bad choice, just another consideration. If you plan to use it 100% a scanner, get a scanner. The only exception is people who need to have longer eye-relief due to wearing glasses or different conditions may still be better off using a small compact scope even if using it 100% as a scanner. Many people buy Vibes and Yoters for dual role purposes, and they do work well in that regard.

A question was asked about replacing the Phenom internal battery. If your battery fails/won't hold a charge, etc, it could still be run off external battery. However, Bering will replace an internal battery for around $50. I've been running my Phenom 640 for many seasons through the cold conditions of ND, shooting roughly a 1,000 coyotes the last 3 winters. I have charged it too many times to count, and it is still going strong.