Advanced Marksmanship Supporthand and rearbag

[Shooter 06]

Since I started to shoot a 338LM I went back to the fundamentals.

By this I habe a question reagaring supporthand and rearbag.

Are you using your support hand only to manipulat the rearbag or also to bring some prasure against your shoulder.

According to the online training video I need for a 16pound rifle , 16 pound preasure to hold it in the shoulder pocket. When I do this only with my shooting hand I have a negativ impact on my trigger manipulstion.

Sharing the preasure could be an option. But I am not sure if this is an good idea reagarding the whole system.

 

[lash]

Use your support hand to bring the rifle into your shoulder and to manipulate the rear bag.

 

[Gray Squirrel]

You want to try and avoid how much you’re “muscling” the rifle. A good solid, steady position should not be one that requires you to exert too much muscular force (I assume your talking about prone firing and not alternate positions which can be a different animal in itself).

Put the buttstock tightly into your shoulder and then scoot forward just a tad so you are slightly pushing against the bipod. This solid, but gentle pressure should keep the stock firmly in your shoulder. I use my support hand to manipulate the bag and just hold the rifle in place, not actively pulling it into place.

Our muscles rarely are ever localized and can run up and down our limbs. When you tighten your muscles, it may seem like the force is localized, but you can be pulling your muscle tight from other parts of your body. A steady position is about bin structure being supported by other bone structure or the ground, not by muscle support.

When it comes to our hands, we can have a sympathetic reflex where if we squeeze one hand, sometimes our other hand wants to subconsciously match the action. So when you’re squeezing your support hand, you’re fighting the urge to squeeze your firing hand which can very much negatively impact your trigger pull. One hand is trying to do a fine motor skill while the other is doing a gross motor skill.

 

[Shooter 06]

Yes, most times prone or sitting from a table.

Thanks for your help so far

 

[Diver160651]

Since I started to shoot a 338LM I went back to the fundamentals.


According to the online training video I need for a 16pound rifle , 16 pound preasure to hold it in the shoulder pocket. When I do this only with my shooting hand I have a negativ impact on my trigger manipulstion.

.

I have not seen the video you are discussing, but I would assume there is more meant by that statement. I would imagine, it was meant to illustrate that you need to drive the gun with more “total” force, if you want to self-spot, just as you must a 10lbs magnum. I find my 338LM much easier to self-spot, than my mountain weight magnum.

You do NOT “pull back with your hands with weight to the rifle and hold it into the pocket”... imagine some of the heavier 30lbs+ builds.

While you do need a very sold inline position with more hand pressure (if you want to self-spot at closer ranges), you generate most of the “pocket pressure” by loading your body into the gun or driving the gun.

If your at the table, shoot off the end.. move your ass back, bend forward at the hips while keeping your upper body & shoulders as straight as you can and drive it like you would prone.. I am at loss why all the shooters turn sideways to shoot off a bench.

 

[lash]

...You do NOT “pull back with your hands with weight to the rifle and hold it into the pocket”... imagine some of the heavier 30lbs+ builds.

While you do need a very sold inline position with more hand pressure (if you want to self-spot at closer ranges), you generate most of the “pocket pressure” by loading your body into the gun or driving the gun.

If your at the table, shoot off the end.. move your ass back, bend at the hips while keeping your upper body as straight as you can and drive it like you would prone.. I am at loss why all the shooter turn sideways to shoot off a bench.

^^^This^^^

I have also wondered why the sideways bench position is used, but am no expert at bench shooting, so haven't judged what I don't know. I have always just lined up square behind the rifle to best spot my hits when at a bench. It seems to work fine for me.

Like Diver said, use your off hand to control the bag and to snug the rifle into your shoulder. A snug fit will mitigate recoil and allow you to spot your hits (and misses for those that miss... )

 

[CharlieNC]

The bench rest crowd shoots free recoil; only the front and rear rests contact the rifle, then a minor pull on the very light trigger without touching anything else. With their very small groups, you can't argue that it works for that scenario.

 

[BearNaked]

I can say that I was raised shooting with a cant to the rifle since it was more comfortable that way but that is also just backwoods learning to shoot and no actual training. I am still having issues with getting proper body alignment from all the years of bad form.

 

[lash]

<edited>

EDIT: I made the wrong reference, see below.

 

[vh20]

There is nothing wrong with shooting the rifle with the natural cant you get from putting the stock into your shoulder. That has been hashed out a bunch here already.

Aren't they (above) referring to canting the body to the rifle, as in support shoulder and arm well forward of the strong side, and not being square behind it?

 

[lash]

Aren't they (above) referring to canting the body to the rifle, as in support shoulder and arm well forward of the strong side, and not being square behind it?

Yes, you are right. I tend to pop onto the Hide for a few minutes at a time over the course of the day and did make the wrong reference above. I usually think of rifle cant in reference to the angle that the butt stock takes off of vertical when held into the shoulder pocket and that was my reference, completely forgetting that the conversation was about the practice of sitting to the side of the rifle when at a bench of that type.

In a better response to BearNaked, I say that what he is talking about is the natural angle that the body takes when firing from a standing position while hunting and supporting the fore end of the rifle with your off hand.

Sorry for creating confusion with my answer above.

 

[Precision Underground]

My understanding, mostly from the rifles only site, was to pull only with the BICEP of the strong side. Once I got this right things got much better. I pull hard into my shoulder with the bicep. The tricky part for me was to be able to do this with a relaxed shoulder and without compressing the stock down into the rear bag with my cheek weld. I have long arms and needed a long length of pull to make it work. As long as the last 3 fingers on the hand are doing the pulling and the bicep is isolated my trigger finger can do what it needs to do without making the rifle move at all.