Suppressor Mounting: Xeno vs Plan B Spec

[rybe390]

Xeno Vs Plan B spec

Looking for a new mounting platform, and am zeroing in on the Xeno and Plan B style systems. This is for precision rifle, hunting rifle, and carbine use, I'm looking to standardize among some new cans, and old. Sdn-6 with hub, kgm r30, and probably a kgm r 6.5 and OCL polonium.

I currently use area 419 hellfire and dead air keymo, hellfire for bolt guns, and I'm realizing that I never run the hellfire brake, and that keymo is heavy and adds too much length. In looking at taper mount options...for similar weight and repeatability of the hellfire, I can run a taper system and share cans between bolt guns and carbines without using keymo. In theory.

I'd like to have semi functional brakes or flash hiders on the rifles when not in use. Right now, the hellfire is bare unless I add the full hellfire brake which I really don't do.

If anyone has input and has used either system, please let me know your thoughts.

Brands: I'm looking mostly at Rearden for plan b, and Dead Air for xeno.

Return to zero: both seem the same. Tapered shoulder etc.

Length: plan b pattern seems to have shorter muzzle devices and a shorter added length to full system

Weight: plan b pattern seems to be lighter

Muzzle devices: plan b pattern appears to have more options/brands on board.

Rear adapters: plan B has lots of people making adapters.

From all accounts, information is pointing me towards plan B spec as the lighter, shorter, and more available option. Am I missing something here? Appreciate the input!

 

[tthomp302]

I use a Liberty Bell (Plan B style) From Liberty Precision Machine. I use them on my AR, Bolt guns, and pretty much everything. I use a Rearden Atlas as my mount in my Hydrogen L. It always returns to zero, threads perfectly, and seals nicely. I like the liberty bell because it doesn't need to be timed so it makes it simple to install. I know shims are easy, but just threading on and torquing is even easier. I would recommend Rearden or Liberty Precision muzzle devices paired with a Rearden atlas mount.

 

[Clayman]

Rearden or Liberty precision muzzle device with a Rearden Atlas in the can.

Left hand threads are cool but if you're properly torquing your muzzle device down it's a non-factor imo.

Xeno adds more weight/length.

 

[kthomas]

Currently using the Plan-B mounting ecosystem and love it.

Rearden Atlas adapters with Rearden muzzle devices (SPB & PRS).

The Rearden products are quality, and decent selection. Especially if you are going to share suppressors across platforms (bolt guns and ar15's). Torque it up snug and there's no issues with the suppressor coming loose. The taper certainly works, I like that design feature. Return to zero is reliable.

 

[kthomas]

My vote is for the plan B. I don’t have one yet but I have some Q silencers and the cherry bombs are great.

Cherry bombs are awful for precision bolt guns, and I dislike that they don't have any wrench flats should the muzzle device get stuck in the can. I think Q did a great job on designing the elegant mounting solution in the Plan B, but I think their muzzle devices are lacking, especially for precision bolt gun use.

 

[jb0311]

I was in the same boat, and went from all hellfire devices to all xeno. I am extremely happy with them and don't regret not going with Reardon, which was my other consideration.

 

[J. W.]

At least with the Rearden you don't have to look like your rifle took a trip to the grade-8 hardware bin at Lowe's. It's silly and cosmetic, but I have always hated that zinc-yellow looking finish. Rearden has stuff in black, if you're less into the bling like me. That said, I'm running Xeno on all my stuff and I'm happy with it.

 

[Gtscotty]

Rearden or Liberty precision muzzle device with a Rearden Atlas in the can.

Left hand threads are cool but if you're properly torquing your muzzle device down it's a non-factor imo.

Xeno adds more weight/length.

The muzzle device coming loose is not the problem, the problem is the adapter coming loose from the can and staying with the muzzle device when you're trying to remove the can. I ran Plan A (functionally similar to Plan B) for a while, and had this problem enough for it to be annoying, especially when hot swapping. I tried various thread lockers, ST-3A worked well... Until I wanted to remove it and then I very nearly had to send it in.

Left hand threads and the ability to put a light impact w/hex on the adapter to snug it up solved all those problems for me, I replaced both of my Plan A setups and all my muzzle devices with Xeno and won't be going back. There's a similar thread over on arfcom and Mageever, designer of the Xeno put up the actual numbers for weight differences between reardon and Xeno Xero, and it's negligible. The length difference is also mostly an illusion of the tool feature extending back, the actual length difference mounted was something like a quarter inch.

 

[kthomas]

The muzzle device coming loose is not the problem, the problem is the adapter coming loose from the can and staying with the muzzle device when you're trying to remove the can. I ran Plan A (functionally similar to Plan B) for a while, and had this problem enough for it to be annoying, especially when hot swapping. I tried various thread lockers, ST-3A worked well... Until I wanted to remove it and then I very nearly had to send it in.

Left hand threads and the ability to put a light impact w/hex on the adapter to snug it up solved all those problems for me, I replaced both of my Plan A setups and all my muzzle devices with Xeno and won't be going back. There's a similar thread over on arfcom and Mageever, designer of the Xeno put up the actual numbers for weight differences between reardon and Xeno Xero, and it's negligible. The length difference is also mostly an illusion of the tool feature extending back, the actual length difference mounted was something like a quarter inch.

I use red loctite on my mounts and adapters and no issues so far.

Have you tried red loctite?

 

[rybe390]

Cherry bombs are awful for precision bolt guns, and I dislike that they don't have any wrench flats should the muzzle device get stuck in the can. I think Q did a great job on designing the elegant mounting solution in the Plan B, but I think their muzzle devices are lacking, especially for precision bolt gun use.

What makes you say that the cherry bomb is bad for bolt guns? Besides wrench flats, it is a taper mount, no?

 

[kthomas]

What makes you say that the cherry bomb is bad for bolt guns? Besides wrench flats, it is a taper mount, no?

Just as a mount it's fine.

Shooting unsuppressed there's just better options to have on the end of your muzzle than a compensator.

 

[gigabels]

Just as a mount it's fine.

Shooting unsuppressed there's just better options to have on the end of your muzzle than a compensator.

But you're saying when suppressed it's not a problem for precision shooting?

To OP, I happened to go with plan B since I started. I haven't used the zeno's but it would be one of my top choices if I had to pick another. Rearden and LPM really are what make plan B good. They added wrench flats, square shoulders and a solid variety of devices to choose from. Back to Kthomas this part might fix what you're talking about if I understand you correctly. There's multiple third party muzzle brakes and flash hiders to choose from.

That said when you want to standardize mounts on all devices you can't pick the best mount for every device so some sacrifices have to be made. I wouldn't know but I would guess that area 419's (edit: or TBAC's) systems would be some of the best for precision shooting. I do think Plan B is great all around.

 

[kthomas]

But you're saying when suppressed it's not a problem for precision shooting?

To OP, I happened to go with plan B since I started. I haven't used the zeno's but it would be one of my top choices if I had to pick another. Rearden and LPM really are what make plan B good. They added wrench flats, square shoulders and a solid variety of devices to choose from. Back to Kthomas this part might fix what you're talking about if I understand you correctly. There's multiple third party muzzle brakes and flash hiders to choose from.

That said when you want to standardize mounts on all devices you can't pick the best mount for every device so some sacrifices have to be made. I wouldn't know but I would guess that area 419's systems would be some of the best for precision shooting. I do think Plan B is great all around.

Yes sorry. Suppressed it represents no issues. My wife's rifle has a cherry bomb on it. Shoots lights out.

Just not ideal to shoot unsuppressed (which doesn't really happen).

 

[rybe390]

Thanks for the input here everyone. Sounds like it's really hard to go wrong with any of these systems. I've decided on plan B for the time being, using a rearden atlas and fhd(gas gun) and a q cherry bomb(bolt gun). Pretty tired of timing muzzle devices, hellfire did spoil me with that.

Excited to replace keymo for length/weight purposes and also replace hellfire for usable muzzle device and cross compatibility with my gas guns.

Might return to hellfire for bolt guns only after I have more cans and don't need to share with the gas guns, but for now I think this will do!

 

[Gtscotty]

I use red loctite on my mounts and adapters and no issues so far.

Have you tried red loctite?

No, muzzle devices have never been a problem for me when properly torqued. I wanted the adapters to be removable (with effort) so I didn't try any permanent thread lockers, just blue, VC-3 and ST-3A. ST-3A was probably the best, but if it gets cooked on for a while, it can become very hard to remove (freezer+blowtorch+kroil+impact+vox block worked, but that was my final attempt). Anything with wrench flats is going to be miles ahead of the older style Plan A with just spanner slots though.

Some folks use rocksett, and I guess you can get it to rehydrate and soften by soaking or boiling it for a long time. I haven't needed a thread locker since going to Xeno though, I basically turn my 1/4" impact down to the lowest setting, put a socket on the Xeno adapter and give it a few shots to tighten it up the last bit. I don't gorilla the can onto the muzzle device, so I haven't had it loosen while mounting, of course if I have to crank the can off the muzzle device, i'm just tightening the adapter can interface.

 

[RKBArmory]

I've also had to start using thread locker on my Xeno / can interface. So far, I'm at blue thread locker. We'll see if I have to move up to red, or rocksett.

 

[Bluedog82]

I use Plan A by Griffin myself and have been very happy with it. They cover a huge range of thread pitches and bore diameters.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Plan A or TBAC. Torque to 30lbft.

 

[nikerret]

The muzzle device coming loose is not the problem, the problem is the adapter coming loose from the can and staying with the muzzle device when you're trying to remove the can. I ran Plan A (functionally similar to Plan B) for a while, and had this problem enough for it to be annoying, especially when hot swapping. I tried various thread lockers, ST-3A worked well... Until I wanted to remove it and then I very nearly had to send it in.

Left hand threads and the ability to put a light impact w/hex on the adapter to snug it up solved all those problems for me, I replaced both of my Plan A setups and all my muzzle devices with Xeno and won't be going back. There's a similar thread over on arfcom and Mageever, designer of the Xeno put up the actual numbers for weight differences between reardon and Xeno Xero, and it's negligible. The length difference is also mostly an illusion of the tool feature extending back, the actual length difference mounted was something like a quarter inch.

Well crap. I’ve got a bag of adapters and muzzle devices from Griffin in their Plan A, for when my suppressors get out of jail. I went with them because they seemed to add the least length and were light weight yet highly regarded.

I use Plan A by Griffin myself and have been very happy with it. They cover a huge range of thread pitches and bore diameters.

Feeling a little better….

 

[Bluedog82]

Well crap. I’ve got a bag of adapters and muzzle devices from Griffin in their Plan A, for when my suppressors get out of jail. I went with them because they seemed to add the least length and were light weight yet highly regarded.



Feeling a little better….

I had to rocksett my adapter to my can and also my muzzle devices to my guns. Since I don’t really change them out it’s not a big deal. If you have to remove one, dunk in boiling water and it comes right off.

 

[Gtscotty]

Well crap. I’ve got a bag of adapters and muzzle devices from Griffin in their Plan A, for when my suppressors get out of jail. I went with them because they seemed to add the least length and were light weight yet highly regarded.



Feeling a little better….

Like Bluedog82 said, if you plan on the adapter being more or less permanent, just Rocksett them in with some stiff torque and you should be fine. I did like that the EZ brake has hex cut muzzle end, so they are easy to attach and remove with a socket.

 

[Craqas]

Going with Rearden for my Nomad. Just took my first shots with their DPB.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

As far as taper mounts go, I am partial to the TBAC CB system using the Energetic Armament HUB mount with TBAC muzzle devices (super short OAL) or Q plan B system using the Rearden Atlas HUB mount with Rearden or Liberty Precision Machine muzzle devices.

Energetic Armament CB Left, Rearden Atlas Plan B Right:

Rearden Atlas Plan B Left, Energetic Armament CB Right:

Rearden Atlas Plan B + Liberty Precision Machine Flash Hider Left, Energetic Armament CB + TBAC CB 2 Port Brake Right:

Rearden Atlas HUB Plan B mount on one of my cans with the Liberty Precision Machine Flash Hider mounted inside:

Energetic Armament HUB CB mount on one of my cans with the TBAC CB 2 Port Brake mounted inside:

The CB system is tried and true for precision applications with a high degree of repeatability. Pretty awesome of Energetic Armament to make a HUB mounting system for it, I have swapped two of my weapons and one can over to it. My Rearden Atlas Plan B + LPM muzzle device combo has been abused beyond belief across multiple systems and has yet to walk off.

Both are excellent, elegant, and simple suppressor mounting solutions that work very well. The key to using taper mount systems period is a high temp thread lock on the mount-suppressor threads as well as the muzzle brake-barrel threads; I prefer Rocksett. Additionally, putting some grease onto the taper will help keep them from seizing. A little goes a long way here and has not caused my can to walk off either.

Links:

EA HUB CB (TB/ThunderBeast) Mount:

TB Compatible Mount - Energetic Armament

energeticarms.com

Rearden Atlas HUB (and other threads) Plan B Mount:

Atlas – Rearden MFG

www.reardenmfg.com

TBAC muzzle devices:

Thunder Beast Arms Corporation [TBAC] | Products | ACCESSORIES

Plan B style Rearden Muzzle Devices:

Muzzle Devices – Rearden MFG

www.reardenmfg.com

Plan B style Liberty Precision Machine Muzzle Devices

Muzzle Devices – Liberty Precision Machine

libertyprecisionmachine.com

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

As far as taper mounts go, I am partial to the TBAC CB system using the Energetic Armament HUB mount with TBAC muzzle devices (super short OAL) or Q plan B system using the Rearden Atlas HUB mount with Rearden or Liberty Precision Machine muzzle devices.

The issue with TBAC CB mounts is that the taper is in front of the threads. After some use carbon gets in the thread interface and seizes the can to the mount. Which at that point the can basically becomes DT. Pretty common issue.

Myself I went Xeno for the LH threads and material choice. Been solid for me so far.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

The issue with TBAC CB mounts is that the taper is in front of the threads. After some use carbon gets in the thread interface and seizes the can to the mount. Which at that point the can basically becomes DT. Pretty common issue.

Myself I went Xeno for the LH threads and material choice. Been solid for me so far.

Yeah, but quite frankly the tapers on the Q and Xeno systems can and do carbon lock as well. I am sure with systems like the Xeno or Huxwrx the reverse thread helps. Without any grease on the threads or taper, I have had to use wrenches to seperate my plan b system no question. The Xeno system is great, but the limitations in muzzle devices for me doesn't work if a can is swapping between a precision bolt gun and a 5.56 AR. A cherry bomb type brake like the dead air one for sure sucks on, say, a 300 PRC, win mag, etc.

 

[kthomas]

Yeah, but quite frankly the tapers on the Q and Xeno systems can and do carbon lock as well. I am sure with systems like the Xeno or Huxwrx the reverse thread helps. Without any grease on the threads or taper, I have had to use wrenches to seperate my plan b system no question. The Xeno system is great, but the limitations in muzzle devices for me doesn't work if a can is swapping between a precision bolt gun and a 5.56 AR. A cherry bomb type brake like the dead air one for sure sucks on, say, a 300 PRC, win mag, etc.

No system is perfect, especially when threads, high heat and carbon is involved.

So far the only issues I've had with my Rearden system is when I've over tightened it. But I'm sure there's more potential for sticking as carbon builds up on the system and it's components.

I still think the end result of putting the taper in front of the threads is less situations with sticking, but it can still happen.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

The issue with TBAC CB mounts is that the taper is in front of the threads. After some use carbon gets in the thread interface and seizes the can to the mount. Which at that point the can basically becomes DT. Pretty common issue.

Myself I went Xeno for the LH threads and material choice. Been solid for me so far.

BS. I've put 700 rounds through my TBAC can in two days and it unscrewed at the end as if it were just put on. I've had OPS cans for 20 years and never had a stuck can, including glowing full auto mag dumps. I've put 1k rounds through a Griffin Recce7 in a weekend and never stuck. The list goes on.

Carbon lock is from gas flowing through the threads. Gas doesn't flow through TBAC, Griffin, or OPS threads, regardless of the thread locations.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

Yeah, but quite frankly the tapers on the Q and Xeno systems can and do carbon lock as well. I am sure with systems like the Xeno or Huxwrx the reverse thread helps. Without any grease on the threads or taper, I have had to use wrenches to seperate my plan b system no question. The Xeno system is great, but the limitations in muzzle devices for me doesn't work if a can is swapping between a precision bolt gun and a 5.56 AR. A cherry bomb type brake like the dead air one for sure sucks on, say, a 300 PRC, win mag, etc.

Ive never had the taper on my Xeno carbon lock and I've shot it quite a bit. In fact so much so that I had carbon build up on the brake portion ahead of the taper prevent easy removal of the can. But the threads had always been clean with no carbon build up.

The only time I've had to use a wrench is when I first got the mounts and overtightened when mounting the can. After some heat cycling it was very tight on there. Nothing to do with the mounts just user error.

I do agree they could do with better support in terms of muzzle devices.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

BS. I've put 700 rounds through my TBAC can in two days and it unscrewed at the end as if it were just put on. I've had OPS cans for 20 years and never had a stuck can, including glowing full auto mag dumps. I've put 1k rounds through a Griffin Recce7 in a weekend and never stuck. The list goes on.

Carbon lock is from gas flowing through the threads. Gas doesn't flow through TBAC, Griffin, or OPS threads, regardless of the thread locations.

Glad that you've had that experience but it's not the only experience. Just do a search here for it.

Also the threads don't create a sealed joint. If it seals anywhere it'd be off of the taper.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Glad that you've had that experience but it's not the only experience. Just do a search here for it.

Also the threads don't create a sealed joint. If it seals anywhere it'd be off of the taper.

No, how about you support your assertion "After some use carbon gets in the thread interface and seizes the can to the mount".

Gas does not flow through the threads because the taper seals the back of the silencer. Carbon deposits primarily on the front of the brake, very little in the threads or behind the threads.

Third from the top is 1500 rounds of 6.5CM on a TBAC brake with Ultra 7. "After some use"...

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

No, how about you support your assertion "After some use carbon gets in the thread interface and seizes the can to the mount".

Gas does not flow through the threads because the taper seals the back of the silencer. Carbon deposits primarily on the front of the brake, very little in the threads or behind the threads.

Third from the top is 1500 rounds of 6.5CM on a TBAC brake with Ultra 7. "After some use"...

I mean searching the forum is pretty simple. 10 second search brought up this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/stuck-thunder-beast.7064846/#post-9365006

The bolded statement supports what I was saying. The rear of the mount is sealed. So it's possible for carbon to get into the threads. No one is saying it's a ton of buildup. It just doesn't take much though to lockup threads.

Again I'm glad you've had a good experience, but the seizing issue is not an unknown phenomenon.

EDIT: In your own picture you can see the carbon right in front of taper behind the threads.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

I mean searching the forum is pretty simple. 10 second search brought up this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/stuck-thunder-beast.7064846/#post-9365006

The bolded statement supports what I was saying. The rear of the mount is sealed. So it's possible for carbon to get into the threads. No one is saying it's a ton of buildup. It just doesn't take much though to lockup threads.

Again I'm glad you've had a good experience, but the seizing issue is not an unknown phenomenon.

EDIT: In your own picture you can see the carbon right in front of taper behind the threads.

You didn't read that thread did you? It's not about carbon locking. You don't have any first hand experience do you?

 

[TheOE800]

View attachment 8084222

Oohhh bolt gun with a collar-less Ops 12th profile.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

You didn't read that thread did you? It's not about carbon locking. You don't have any first hand experience do you?

I did read the thread. The problem is the mount getting stuck. One of the solutions is to use an adhesive on the mount to barrel interface. Cool it works. Another solution would be to change the design to mitigate that from ever happening.

I don't own a CB mount however shoot with others who do. Asked them about it and yep they've had cans carbon lock. In fact, my gunsmith has one where he gave up trying to get it out and just uses it DT.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Incorrectly installing muzzle devices and over tightening silencers effects all taper mounts. I don't believe you, you're repeating the same old nonsense. My first hand experience contradicts your second hand stories.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Forgive my lack of knowledge in advance, I only have experience with the HUXWRX mount system. I have a Dead Air Sierra5 in jail and I'm trying to wrap my head around potential options. I went Xeno as I wanted short, simple and light and it includes a flash hider and of course has the 1.375-24 threading in the suppressor body itself.

Can I use something like the Energetic Armament Centrix mount WITH the Dead Air flash hider or muzzle brake or do I have to go with another the EA or other third party muzzle adapter? In other words, is the muzzle device threading for the suppressor mount also "universal" like the 1.375-24 threading?

 

[Bluedog82]

Forgive my lack of knowledge in advance, I only have experience with the HUXWRX mount system. I have a Dead Air Sierra5 in jail and I'm trying to wrap my head around potential options. I went Xeno as I wanted short, simple and light and it includes a flash hider and of course has the 1.375-24 threading in the suppressor body itself.

Can I use something like the Energetic Armament Centrix mount WITH the Dead Air flash hider or muzzle brake or do I have to go with another the EA or other third party muzzle adapter? In other words, is the muzzle device threading for the suppressor mount also "universal" like the 1.375-24 threading?

With a few exceptions (like how Rearden does Plan B, and a few people do Keymo), you have to use one manufacturer for your mount and muzzle devices. In the case of mounts like Rearden that make one for Plan B, they are very explicit about it.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Ok I figured as much. I guess my only concern would be using a muzzle device that wasn't designed for the Sierra5 and how it might affect performance. Just looks like I'll get about an inch less in total length with the EA Centrix vs. the Dead Air Zeno.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Ok I figured as much. I guess my only concern would be using a muzzle device that wasn't designed for the Sierra5 and how it might affect performance. Just looks like I'll get about an inch less in total length with the EA Centrix vs. the Dead Air Zeno.

The only things you are gaining by adding a muzzle device are 1) a sacrificial blast baffle in the suppressor 2) a quick detach system instead of direct thread 3) the ability to use a muzzle device for recoil control or flash mitigation without a suppressor attached and without any change to the system otherwise.

If a muzzle device is having an effect on performance in terms of sound signature, it is likely within the margin of error that human ear cannot perceive a difference.

 

[Ape_Factory]

Ok thanks appreciate it! Wasn't sure if there were issues specifically with the blast chamber or flash signature performance depending on length, port placement, etc... Sent an email to Capitol Armory to see if the EA muzzle device will even fit the Sierra5. I'm likely a good five months out based on my last suppressor so I have some time, LOL.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

No problem! For fitment the measurement you are looking for is "projection" inside the suppressor. Basically, you're looking to confirm once you stack up the suppressor mount and muzzle device that the blast baffle isn't interfering with the muzzle device.